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Found 21 results

  1. Mental Health Issues Cured by Christ

    My following testimony is inspired by shapes' post in the "Worthy Q & A for Seekers" forum. And I quote, "How does God deal with those who have mental illness. Does he heal people from this affliction?" https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/219239-mental-illness-god/#comment-2777709 God dealt with my mind in a mess by giving me a guardian angel. I have seen and heard her. God had me born into an amazing family. They love, protect and provide for me. God gave me and the ability to discern real true friends. Only a couple dozen never gave up on me. God supplied me with doctors, psychiatrists and professionals. Medications, personal care and safety nets caught me when I fell, repeatedly. God commands my government, nation and community services to help me, however little and lacking it is. God dealt with me by interacting with my heart, mind, body and soul. Most importantly, God dealt with my sin by sending His Son, Jesus Christ, to save, protect and heal me. I have been saved since 2016's Christmas season. I dove deep into everything Christian and came up baptized on the last day of 2017 (also baptized as an infant). I attended some prayer meetings last year. They anointed me with oil and prayed for the healing of my mind. Since then, God has been healing and restoring me among other areas of my life. I feel shocks of energy surge though and jerk my body. I have been told this is the blood of Jesus running through me. When I am praying, willingly changing my thoughts to God's will, having revelations or meditating on God, I feel tangible physical healing in my temples behind my eyes. It has the similar sensation of a yawn, a condensed vibration. A Christian veteran I admire said something that stuck in my head relatively recently. "I don't even think like that anymore." It was a eureka revelation moment at the time and applies to what has been happening to my mind over the past year. I am becoming less like the Greg of the past and more like Christ. The Holy Spirit is alive and well in me and changing me for the better. The short answer is, "yes," He does heal people from this affliction. How God deals with sin, evil, death and even demons is by offering Jesus Christ a place in between us and all those "mental health issues." The secular world is leaving out God (in three Persons) as the ultimate and only real true solution, cure, coping mechanism and explanation, etcetera. I am living breathing proof. People would have a hard time believing my past. People in my past would have a hard time believing my present. My future will be hard to believe for anyone stuck in the secular world ignoring the one, true, living God. Jesus Christ is alive and well and has made me so, eternally, glory be to our Heavenly Father! 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned. - Mark 5:12-13 New International Version (NIV) 3 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. - Hebrews 3:1 New International Version (NIV) 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. - Philippians 4:7 New International Version (NIV)
  2. When Fear Knocks.. Comic

    Attached you will find one the better comics I have seen. Enjoy!!
  3. Collage Puzzle 1 For this one, I am giving some information about how to use the application as well as the puzzle itself. Following are some tips / tricks / instructions, but I am not finished with them yet, but it will get you started - please consider though, responding to the poll about difficulty preferences, so I have some direction on what puzzles I should be providing. - On with the directions: On this puzzle, there are differing numbers of puzzle pieces depending on the difficult level chosen. The puzzle piece shapes vary with the versions also.. when you go to solve the puzzle, here are some things you should know: I suggest that you read number 4 first! 1 On the lover left hand corner of the puzzle play screen, there is a little square that allows you to display a small picture, of what the completed puzzle will look like. You can toggle this on or off, with a click. 2 To the right of that, is the ghost button. The ghost button, changes you play board, to a lightly colored version, of the completed puzzle. 3 Next to that button, to the right, is the arrange/disarrange button. Disarrange, means that your puzzle pieces will be on the board, as they might have come out of the box, a bit messy. Arrange, means the pieces will be in tidy rows, easier to see. This button is dangerous, as it can place your pieces in piles, that you had sitting on the play board where you wanted them to be. The function is best chosen, before you start solving your puzzle. 4 Next to that is the gear symbol, these are tools and settings. Look these over, they are pretty self explanatory, but see what they do, and alter settings to suit your preferences. 5 Bottom center of the play screen, is display, that shows the percentage of you puzzle completed. Once you start playing, it also starts a clock, showing you how much time has elapsed since you began. The time begins when you move your first piece. Once the clock is running, a pause option appears. If you click pause, the clock stops, but also, the puzzle pieces disappear from the table, until you restart play. 6. To move a piece, you click on it to select it. Then you will see a shadow around it indicating it is selected, and you move the piece to where you want it. Click it again, and it "drops" into place. 7. When moving a piece, you may want to rotate it. You may do so, while the piece is selected, and use the right mouse button (or the equivalent on your device, to rotate it 90 degrees for each click, then left click it, when you have it as you want it. 8. If you have the sound on, there is a satisfying sound, somewhere between a thump and a click when a piece is properly connected to another. More info to come at a future time, but that should get you started. Super Easy version of this puzzle - 48 pieces Moderately Difficult version of the puzzle - 99 pieces Quite difficult version of the puzzle - 204 pieces
  4. Marching On The Path Of Faith

    We don't rejoice for the battles, but we exalt in the victories that are already won in Christ. It's in times of adversity that millions, great multitudes, will come to know Christ Jesus, as many as the sand which is on the seashore (Genesis 22:17-18). STAYING IN MOTION Consistency in Kingdom advancement is more important than speed or ferocity. After all, eternity is timeless. Sometimes our journey with Jesus may seem like plodding. But, God orchestrates our steps. As long as we're in motion and not stagnating, we're taking ground. May we be able to declare, "For the Lord GOD helps Me, Therefore, I am not disgraced; Therefore, I have set My face like flint, And I know that I will not be ashamed." - Isaiah 50:7. II Samuel 5:10 - "And he (David) became more and more powerful because the Lord God Almighty was with him." Marching upon the path of faith is similar to pumping spiritual iron. Each time we wield the sword, every time we put on the breastplate of righteousness, every time we act in faith, our spiritual muscles grow stronger in Christ Jesus. There are times we do not engage in battle. There are times we simply "stay in the cave" and wait (Judges 15:8; I Samuel 22:1; I Kings 19:9). It's crucial to pray and inquire so we know if, and when, God is sending us to fight. It's difficult to stumble when we're on our knees. The battle belongs to the Lord. Therefore, the defeat of the enemy is in His hands. SometimesSILENCE is the greatest weapon of all, allowing the contender to exhaust himself shadowboxing, while we stay in an attitude of worship--the highest form of warfare. THE DESIRE TO FIX THINGS Often, the battle is not with the devil, but with our own CARNAL NATURE. Our flesh really longs to rise up and fix things, stating our opinion. We must remember--the greater the faith, the fewer the words. If there are some battles or power-struggles going on in your sphere of influence, keep in mind, it's best to always bow lower. After all, God became a baby to conquer the world. For it's, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My spirit, says the Lord" - Zechariah 4:6. II Samuel 5:22-25, "As soon as you hear the sound of marching in the tops of the mulberry trees, move quickly, because that will mean the Lord has gone out in front of you to strike the Philistine army." So David did as the Lord commanded him, and he struck down the Philistines all the way from Gibeon to Gezer." We're living in "move-quickly" days. When you hear the wind in the top of the mulberry trees, move quickly. Delayed obedience can be disobedience. BUILDING OUR SPIRITUAL MUSCLES God uses divine delays, times of testing, false starts, and trial runs to build up our spiritual muscles, and create a tenacious spirit within us. When David did as the Lord commanded him, he knew that God had gone before him, and he struck down the enemy all the way. There's a time of peace and a time of war, a time to weep and a time to laugh. A time to speak, and a time to be silent. A time to wait, and a time to move quickly. (See Ecclesiastes 3:1) ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
  5. I'll start it off with mine. Mine is John 3:16. Jesus Christ becoming our Lord and Savior by dying on the cross for OUR sins. He is Sinless! He sacrificed for us, so we could be freed from sin! Not to sin freely! Share your scripture verse below and why. God bless, Jesus Loves You John 3:16 KJV 16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
  6. Robert Skynner Flat XXX XXXXX House XXXXX Street Plymouth Devon XXX XXXX (United Kingdom) 13th May 2017 Dear Eddie, Thank you for the gift of the silver NWT Bible, it would be great if you would kindly explain one problem which I, a Trinitarian, have with it, namely John 8:58: “Jesus said to them, most truly, I say unto you, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.” (John 8:58, NWT, 2013 (silver) revised edition). The New World Translation (NWT) of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, is the only Bible which mistranslates the Greek: "ego eimi," (this is the first person singular present tense of the verb "to be"), of John 8:58, as: "I have been?" All other versions of the Bible translate it correctly as "I am," and even the New World Translation itself, translates "ego eimi," consistently and accurately as "I am," elsewhere throughout the New Testament, i.e. at John 8:24, 9:5 and 9:9; which predate and postdate this verse! Why "ego eimi," means "I am" at every occurrence bar one is a puzzle to me, especially when the Watchtower Society has no Greek or Hebrew scholars that they can name. The NWT is not translated by educated and reliable scholars, but by amateurs with no knowledge of Greek and Hebrew. However, this problem is greatly compounded for the Watchtower Society, when one considers the differing marginal notes and explanations of Greek tenses, which have been used to explain the mistranslation of "ego eimi," as "I am." The 1950 NWT edition of the Greek Scriptures, on page 312, and the NWT 1960 Bible on page 3108, explains "ego eimi," here as a perfect indefinite tense, a tense which does not exist in Greek, or even in any other language. In the 1969 (Purple) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear, on page 467, this tense was now changed to the perfect tense, some nineteen years later and after millions of Bible printings which contain the earlier nonexistent tense! Then in 1985, the revised (Blue) edition of the Kingdom Interlinear, on page 451, changes this to the perfect indicative. This is a third tense! Eddie, I enclose scans of these books. If you are unable to get hold of these books then please do visit me, and I can show you these originals. Please pass my details onto any Witness who is willing to study a part of the Really Teach book. Yours Sincerely Robert Skynner
  7. Salam to all brothers/sisters. DISCLAIMER: Due to advice by a member and towards the respect of this forums : THIS POST IS NO WAY HERE TO PROSELYTIZE. I know my place in this forums and I will not have the authority to sway the minds of the possible Christian viewers. God will want the pious on His path. During a chat room discussion, the topic of the Quran and Bible was brought up, specifically the theory of alteration towards the Bible scripture we now have on our desks and bookcases (by me). I am not a scholar in this field nor do I have educational degrees or doctorates-- I am a laymen looking for an academic discussion and I feel like this is an important topic, especially for me. Firstly, I will give a personal introduction and the explanation of misconceptions on the relationship of the Quran and Bible, which also include excerpts of a friends idea (who labels himself Christian): We seem to spend a lot of time noticing and studying the differences in the Quran and Bible, and not much time looking at their similarities. A personal opinion and my friend's opinion is that the Quran was meant to fill in the blanks and correct faulty doctrines derived from the Bible, but not actually in the Bible. The Injeel (arabic word for Gospel or bible, literally translated as the `Good News`) is mentioned 9 times in the Quran but it is never actually called a book, though the belief is that Jesus was given a book, and also that there is no mention in the Bible (NT) of what would have been a very sacred book. As John explains in John 1, In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. Then the word became flesh. Our studies tend to make me believe that the Word, that was with God was sent by God to indwell Jesus and would already have the Injeel. (The Injeel could also mean the revelation given to all prophets). If you went to check Genesis you will notice that "the Word" played a much larger and active role than book could. In Islam we believe Muhammed also gained the 'Injeel', or revelation, from Gabriel, Gabriel also being a very big part in biblical history. That being the Quran. Now when it comes to the compilation of the Quran and Bible, they both were not written by one man. If you want to take the literal terms of written, markings on the surface of a paper with a writing utensil, then you can say that many people wrote the Quran as well as the bible. Anyways, their compilation is also similar in some ways. There was a point in time where many people had verses and snippits of the Quran, as well as the Bible, and one finally needed to bring these verses into one book. The Islamic belief is that the 3rd Caliph, Caliph Uthman, was given this responsibility to say what was in the Book, that being the Quran, and what should be burned. The Shia Islamic belief says that, although the Caliph Uthman may have written the codex of the Quran, the entire Quran was completed and compiled by Imam Ali (as), that being the grandson of the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh). For the bible however, it was the council of Nicea, who determined what should be in the book, and what should be burned. However, as with the Prophet Muhammed (pbuh), Prophet Jesus (pbuh) never wrote a thing. Our earliest records show that it could have been Matthew to be the first to write. The disciples then wrote Gospels which were later on in time compiled and attributed to them. Therefore regardless of what it might have taken to get the scriptures the way it is in the present day, we can say that all the books have been written and compiled by humans, regardless of how pious they were as they were also fallible one saying that keeps coming back from the OT to NT however is " I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts". So I think that the Disciples were as humanly and possibly accurate as they could ever have been with the records. There are tiny differences between the Gospels as they were written (from the disciples), but consider that they were also recorded from their different views as well. One Disciple might have seen what another did not, and then one would suggest that one or the other disciple must be wrong ( more on this later or on a different post) Although this next observation is also the excerpt of my friend, who helped a lot in this entire context which is mostly in his and our shared opinions, but where I may have a differences of this opinion. He said that' The same is witnessed between the rememberers, and transmitters, and the writings of the various versions of the Quran. It's not that big of a deal, also knowing that it was only human. Muhammed had the same revelation as Jesus written in his heart. That is how he was able to recite it to the rememberers.' I agree with this excerpt to an extent. In the Quran there are many verses states that this book, The Quran, is in no way subject of a change, fault, or difference then the revelation of Muhammed. I say this because we have the verse: (We have, without doubt, sent down the Reminder [i.e., the Quran]; and We will assuredly guard it [from corruption].) (Al-Hijr 15:9) which tells us God guards the Quran from any deviancy or malice, or verses like: “Say: ‘If all mankind and the jinn would come together to produce the like of this Quran, they could not produce its like even though they exerted all and their strength in aiding one another.’” (Quran 17:88) and even easier: “Or do they say that he has invented it? Say (to them), ‘Bring ten invented chapters like it, and call (for help) on whomever you can besides God, if you are truthful.” (Quran 11:13) which has to do with the ones who claim that Muhammed wrote the Quran. And closes it with this verse: “And if you all are in doubt about what I have revealed to My servant, bring a single chapter like it, and call your witnesses besides God if you are truthful.” (Quran 2:23) Even during that peak of literacy, there was no challenger who was able to successfully attempt this (also until this day!). This may not help you believe that the Quran is unchangeable, but it does at least help you believe that the Quran is a revelation of God, which is the revelation of Jesus. So we can say that the closest you will see to the revelation given to Jesus is what was quoted by the Disciples, and with many of the Bibles we now have, it is written in a red colour. The rest of the Gospels written were the life and times living with Jesus during ministry. The harder part is that a little shortly after the compilation of the OT and NT, there were persuasive men who made god laws which hurt the original text possibly without changing the words, and divided the true religion into a very large amount of sects. If you tried to read all scriptures without bias of their doctrines you would find that the majority of what people may hold on to as 'contradictions' are just misrepresentations made by those who wished to divide us. God has one message for mankind and It is imperative to believe that He gave it to every prophet the same. Demographics may have a tiny role in the variations of the message, but it's the work of men (not the prophets) which has us so divided. Surprisingly, this part is also an opinion my Christian friend holds himself, which is that : " I find it interesting that the Quran clearly states that it confirms the past scriptures in religion, yet men say no no no, it means the 'past PAST scripture, which are obscure and unattainable. Makes me ask them if in that case was Gabriel given to talk nonsensical on about stuff that could be no use to us? It's like looking for a book that Jesus (pbuh) might have carried. It keeps us chasing aimlessly and missing the real message " which I find extremely interesting. It makes me think that it could be the mere interpretation of the NT bible which people have have deviated onto, other then the interpretation our forefathers wanted it to be like. However this is just a thought and will require much studying and pondering to conclude with. One must also understand that the Quran helps with this idea even more. For example, you have this verse of the Quran: "O People of the Book! Do not exceed the bounds in your religion, and do not attribute anything to Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only an apostle of Allah, and His Word that He cast toward Mary and a spirit from Him. So have faith in Allah and His apostles, and do not say, ‘[God is] a trinity.’ Relinquish [such a creed]! That is better for you. Allah is but the One God. He is far too immaculate to have any son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth, and Allah suffices as trustee." (Quran 4:171) which show that there is no idea of the Trinity and believing in it is not the way of God. However you have this verse: "Indeed the faithful, the Jews, the Christians, and the Sabaeans ---those of them who have faith in Allah and the Last Day and act righteously--- they shall have their reward near their Lord, and they will have no fear, nor will they grieve." (Quran 2:62) Why is God telling us that those faithful of the Jews and Christians , under the criteria of believing in God and the Last day and act righteously (good works), will have a place in paradise? The Quran and God is actually accepting those of the People of the Book under these criteria! (The People of the Book are those of whom were given scripture and revelation, the Jews, Christians, and Muslims, and arguably the sabaeans which one must study more to thereby include) This again was a personal opinion of my friend and I. Why I like this so much is that my friend proudly considers himself Christian. He does not fast nor pray nor recite the testimony of Islam, yet he has this belief of men who deviated the text of the bible and created man-made 'god laws' in which everyone mostly deviated to. In this sense I believe he was speaking about the very major topics like the Trinity and the Atonement of Christ. ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ This is only PART ONE of TWO of this series. It is evident that the question probed on the chat room, this being directed towards those who witnessed it, may not exactly have been answered. This is why in part TWO of TWO of this series, I will go into deep analysis of why Islam believes in the possible alteration of the Bible and different theories and opinions, with the help and excerpts of perhaps one of the biggest and most prominent scholars of Shia Islam and the biggest exegetic of Quran interpretation, Allama Muhammad Hussain Tabatabai , of whom I will gather excerpts of how we will analzye verses of the Quran that may help with this theory. (One is free to have a quick read on Allama Tabatabai, and since we will be mostly focusing on CHAPTER 5 VERSE 41-50, you may give yourself the chance to read about these verses in advance) END DISCLAIMER: I would foremost like to apologize if any viewer at all caught any offense to the words portrayed on this post. It is in no way the intention and I hope no one would feel like it is. I would however like to reiterate that this is an academic discussion and I am looking forward for other opinions and readings by the Christian faith. More importantly, I hope it is not too much to ask that we should focus our answers and possible refutations on the matters portrayed here. I do not want to get into a different topic, for example: like controversy surrounding a possible Quran verse, because that is meant for it's own position in discussion and if very desperate, a viewer can PM me personally and I will be able to help on this topic. The same way Quran verses can get misinterpreted and ripped out of it's original meaning, the Bible can too. Hint, what do you think ISIS is running their ideology on? Thank you.
  8. COMMISSIONED TO ADVANCE

    As followers of Christ we are to be bold, brave, and extremely courageous. Scripture declares in the book of Joshua: "This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous! Do not tremble or be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go." Joshua 1:8–9, NASB The last phrase contains an overwhelming promise -- the abiding presence of God. Keep this promise in the center of your heart: "...for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go!" This promise is repeated throughout Scripture and is the foundation of the promise in 1 John 4:4: "Greater is He [God] that is in you, than he that is in the world." Our God is truly an awesome God! Prepare to behold Him in a manner not seen in our lifetime. God is at this time responding to the invitation of Isaiah 64:1, "Rend the heavens and come down." The time has come for the true conquest. The question is: Are you ready? THE CONQUEST The conquest – the act of conquering – has commenced. This is the main event. It is not time to hold back. Now is the time to give your all to the Kingdom of God. It is time to ARISE and ADVANCE. With a spirit of excellence, you must be giving everything for the sake of advancing the cause of Jesus Christ. True Christianity is more about what we do than what we say (see 1 Corinthians 4:20). It is time for action not just mere words. You are equipped to function in boldness and true authority (see Luke 10:19). You have been given an anointing in what God has PURPOSED FOR YOU -- an unction to function, which is unstoppable; with Christ you are invincible. You are more than a conquer (see Romans 8:37). Not only has Almighty God called us to be brave and courageous, He has commissioned us for these important days. We need to be prepared for conquest that brings about a swift and sure change. God's plan for His people is the plan of victory, not defeat (see Jeremiah 29:11). CALLED AND COMMISSIONED You are called and commissioned to be a radical overcomer. Begin to speak these promises over your life: Joel 3:10 - "Let the weak say I am strong". Micah 3:8, "...truly I am full of power by the Spirit of the Lord!" Deep within the soul of every true Christian beats the heart of an overcomer. The word "overcomer" suggests victory after a hard struggle. We are to be strong, willing warriors. Never forget we are fighting from victory not for victory. Christ has won the victory; we just move into what He has provided. Now is the time for the troops of the Lord to volunteer willingly (see Psalm 110:3). We are to become history makers and world changers. God has determined the exact time of our birth. Truly we are in the Kingdom for such a time as this (seeEsther 4:14). Never forget: the Kingdom is in you for such a time as this. You had absolutely nothing to do with the timing of your birth. It's God's plan. Looking forward to this day, He determined that you would be a great tool in His hands to fashion the Kingdom of God. DECISIVE DAYS OF DESTINY God has confidence in you. It is He working in you, both to will and to do His good pleasure (see Philippians 2:13). In Luke 12:32 the Father's good pleasure is to give us the power of His Kingdom. These are decisive days of destiny. God is calling each of us to arise and take hold of our CALLING in Christ Jesus to advance in His PURPOSE for our life. Yield yourself anew and afresh to God's Holy Spirit, be filled with power and purpose, and determine to make the most of these days of transition from glory to glory. Live to hear HIM say, "Well done good and faithful servant!" ALBERT FINCH MINISTRY
  9. The Post-trib position in a nutshell compared with the Bible A short Bible study on a topic that some want to make way too complicated - Omegaman Post-Trib Belief What the Bible (NASB) Says The software here makes formatting difficult. There is an easier to read version if you prefer July 28th, 2014 - Omegaman 3.0 There will be a time of trouble Jesus called birth pangs You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation 9“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. There will be a sign 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22“Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky 29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. He then will send angels to gather His elect 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time. 42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. The Bible, to prevent deception. tells us the order of the events: 3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you." Every verse listed so far, was from the 24th Chapter of the book of Matthew. You have just read them yourself, exactly as they are in the bible, and in the same order, so you can see for yourself, what Jesus said about these things.As you can see, He did not use figurative or symbolic language, he was very clear, and used lots of words which indicat time sequences, words like "then" and "at that time". There is no need to spin Jesus' words or make unwarranted assumptions, as many are tempted to do. Let's look at some more info from the apostles Paul and from John There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church. From 1 Thess chapter 4 Notice again the sequence: The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise, Then the living Christian join them in the air. 13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Like Jesus before him, Paul also said there was a sign to look for, a sigh that would appear before our gathering to Him in the rapture. Beleivers are to look for this man, and by that will now that the 2nd coming of Jesus, is then imminent. 2 Thess 2 1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Jesus will come like a thief on unbelievers, but watchful Christians will know that He is about to come. 1 Thess 5 1Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.4But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4) of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurrection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation. Believers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17) rapture. 4Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. This has been a summary of the Post Tribulation Rapture viewpoint, also known as Historic Premillenialism, along with some scripture passages which can be said to support this understanding. There were assertions, and there were supporting verses and passages, without inserting things like an invisible, secret coming (is there even one verse that says that? If so, I have never seen it), and idea that has become popular in modern times. I tried to keep this faithful to scripture, I tried to make it simple and clear. Jesus and Paul warned about deceptions to come, I take those warning seriously. Paul had this to say as well: 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2 Tim 4 I will end with this thought from the book of Acts: 19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Some versions render that as "He must remain in heaven until the time" Personally, I find all these verses harmonize perfectly well with each other, and I beleive the Post-Trib rapture position, is consistant with them as well. I hope you found this helpful and informative (Reply to a question - question asker asked for question to be deleted - but ok to leave answer if name not mentioned) Omegaman Jul 31 2014 10:23 PM Your reply touches on something that is always an issue, the idea of interpretation. I have no idea if I am right or I am wrong, I believe I am right of course, otherwise I would change my view, lol. However, where I think my understanding and belief is different from many, is that I try not to interpret at all, I just read, and try to understand. If you read my post, and I assume you did, you will have noticed that I did two things - I stated aspects of the doctrine which I accept, and then I stated the scripture that appears to support those points. You will have noticed that what I did not do was things like: "You see where it says 'elect', that is the Jews!" or: "See where it says the restrainer?" - that is the Holy Spirit: Those sorts of things, are interpretations, I just pointed out scripture and let it speak for itself. The things that are usually used to demonstrate a pre-tribulation rapture, are interpretations at best, usually they are arguments from silence, or assumed inferences not warranted by the text. For example, all of the ways people try to see a sudden, secret, any moment visit by Jesus, well, it is just odd, since the text never says any such thing. While I know people do not intend harm, it strikes me as dishonest to treat scripture so carelessly. Of course, I just stepped on millions of toes with that statement, but it frustrates me that people cannot see the difference between their assumptions and what the Bible actually says, and does not say. In my post I didn't even mention all the evidences that demonstrate the errors of pre-trib assumptions, I just tried to give positive evidence for a post trib position, and I did not have to assume or twist anything to do that - just posted scripture. I could still be in error for my understanding, but I do not think my understanding is unreasonable, and I expect that many others might notice that. My main point in my reply, that I would like you to take away, is that stating scripture, is not an interpretation, it is just stating scripture. I pointed out how, those scriptures might represent what I have come to believe. If the difference is not obvious, then I just wasted my time, but it will not be the first time I have done that. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and respond.
  10. Scripture Art

    Good Evening, everyone! I am so thankful to have found this place and have the ability to share my art with you. I am a professional photographer and I would like to call myself an Intermediate/Expert at Photoshop. It's one of the things that I absolutely love to do, and I have very recently discovered my love for putting God's word and my art together to glorify him. This is one of my most recent and honestly, it's one of my favorites. I will continually add more as the days pass, and if you have anything that you would like me to do, I will definitely try to do it for you. I can also make you image signatures if you want, as I always make my own. Thank you for visiting my art thread and please, do comment and give criticism if able. Thanks again!! Tiffany
  11. For my family: Praying the Scripture OUTLOUD: Mt 21:21............Father, I come before You in prayer and in faith. Rom 13:11........Your Word says that now is the time for all to awaken from sleep, Rom 13:11.........For our salvation is nearer now than we first believed. Col 1:13.............Lord, deliver my loved ones from the power of darKNess, Rom 13:12.........and cause them to put on the armor of light. Rom 13:14.........Help them in their daily walk to put on the Lord Jesus Christ Rom 13:13.........and to avoid the lusts and idolatry of life. Ps 119:37..........Cause them to turn their eyes away from worthless things, 2Tim 2:26..........to come to their senses, and escape the snare of the devil. Rom 13:13.........Deliver them from immorality, strife, and envy, Heb 10:22..........and draw them near to You, Father, with a true heart. Mt 5:6...............Create in them a hunger and thirst for You and Your righteousness, Ps 119:37.........and revive them in Your ways. Col 1:9..............I ask that You fill them with the knowledge of Your will Col 1:9..............in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; Col 1:10............that they might have a walk worthy of You, Lord, Col 1:10............fully pleasing You, being fruitful in every good work, Col 1:10............and increasing in the knowledge of You, Col 1:11............strengthened with all might, according to Your glorious power. Rom 8:30..........Bring them into the calling that You have predestined for them; 1Chr 28:9..........help them to serve You with a loyal heart and with a willing mind, Ps 32:8.............and instruct them in the way they should go. Jas 1:22............Let them be doers of the Word and not hearers only, Ps 119:97.........meditating in Your Word day and night (nightsong). Ps 112:6...........Establish their heart, so they will never be shaken, 1Cor 10:13........and show them a way of escape with every temptation. Rom 13:8..........Let them owe no man anything except their love. 1Jn 3:18...........A love that is in deed and truth, not just in word and speech. Ps 110:3..........Let them be volunteers serving You in the time of Your power. Mt 6:33............Seeking first Your kingdom so that they will reap abundant blessings. Prov 3:9...........I pray that they will honor You with their possessions Prov 3:9...........and with the firstfruits of their increase; Ps 111:1..........Praising the Lord with their whole heart in the assembly Ps 111:1..........of the upright and in the congregation, Mic 6:8............walking humbly with You Lord, being determined to act justly, Ps 112:4..........loving mercy and righteousness, Ps 112:4..........being gracious and full of compassion.
  12. On the significance of the age of the Earth Omegaman Republished from an earlier post on Feb 28, 2009 Is the Earth Old or Young ? No answers here, but some things to think about. I hear this question frequently, but I always wonder what is in the mind of the person asking the question. Is the answer to this question important, and if so, why and in what ways? An unbeliever might like to pit the conclusions of modern scientists, who almost universally hold to the idea that the Earth is very old against the apparent assertions of the Bible that the Earth is relatively young. In other words, if the Bible says the Earth is young, and scientists say the Earth is ancient, then clearly the Bible is wrong and not to be believed. A believer, on the other hand, might look at this problem and conclude, that the unbeliever has a point. Out of concern for the skepticism of the unbeliever, the believer might want to make it easier for the unbeliever to accept the Bible. Similarly, the believer may have his/her own doubts about this and so adopt the position that the correct interpretation of the scriptures is that the Earth is old and in harmony with the consensus of scientists. Personally, I believe the age of the Earth as it relates to an unbeliever is of little significance, and is usually either an excuse not to believe, or is a way of avoiding the important topic of the unbelievers salvation, or moral failures and their implications etc. As a believer addressing this issue with an unbeliever, I will point out that there are believers that hold both positions and that the real topic of concern is whether Jesus came to Earth, died for our sins, and was resurrected on the third day. That is the belief upon which our salvation rests, and any other topic pales in importance. Therefore, I shall be addressing this topic from the stand point of the believer – what it means to us. Is it important what we believe? What should we believe? What concerns me the most, is not what we believe in regards to this question so much as why we believe what we believe. A standard rule of biblical interpretation, is that we interpret the Bible literally, unless we are compelled to do otherwise. Some might make the case that the science is so compelling, that we have to interpret Genesis in some figurative way. I have to ask, what is it, that makes the science so compelling? I am a scientifically minded person, I run much of my daily life depending on ideas which science has observed and proven. Obviously, science has proven to be a powerful and useful tool. However, I think that the most trustworthy part of science, is the part where we can observe current phenomena, develop theories about the phenomena, and test those theories. When we begin to attempt to apply science to metaphysics – the spiritual part of our universe, science has left it’s realm of expertise. When examining topics of an historical nature – the issues of the formation of the universe, the development of life etc, science has also strayed from it’s expertise because it is attempting to guess what has happened in the past, from clues in the present. Most of the time, this will be of questionable reliability, since there is no way to repeat history in a test tube. It is gone, and not subject to examination. For me, what it comes down to then is this: “Which do you trust more, the pronouncements of a demonstrably infallible God, or the pronouncements of demonstrably fallible men?” Now, to be certain, we can make mistakes in our interpretation of the Bible, so both methods have a risk of error. Never-the-less, I believe that the Christian who maintains that the Bible teaches or allows for and ancient earth, is knowingly electing to disbelieve the most natural literal interpretation of the Bible, in favor of the theories of men, derived from the natural sciences. Personally, if I am wrong in my assessment that the Earth might be quite young, I would rather have the clear conscience of taking God at His word and be in error than choosing to trust the dictates of men that God pronounces to be fools for their unbelief of Him. It is true that there are reputable scientists who believe in an old Earth and who profess to be Christians. I do not doubt that most of these men and women are saved, trusting Jesus for their salvation. I do find it very odd, however, that they are willing to trust God about the scientifically unlikely event of the His resurrection, upon which their salvation rests, but cannot find it within themselves, to take Him at His word with regards to issues of origins. In fact, I find it saddening. As you have probably concluded, I am of a younger Earth persuasion. This is not to say that I believe that the Earth was created in 4004 B.C. as some assert. I note that the Bible never makes such a claim, and that this number is merely the result of calculations of a man who added up life spans and genealogies in the Bible. I have never checked his math, but in as much as the Jews were known to practice genealogies with gaps in them, recording more notable ancestors, it seems to me that there is some room for some extra time. In my estimation, all you can prove from the Bible about when the Earth was created, is that Adam, the first man, was created in 4004 B.C. or earlier. How much earlier, I have no idea. In other words, I do not believe the Bible makes any definitive statement on how old the Earth is. Having said that, can I prove there are gaps. Yes and no. The Bible as we know it, notes them itself, by comparing genealogies in some books versus others. In other words, different book describe ancestral lines with differing numbers of people in them. Therefore, some of these have to be incomplete, or else other have extra generations. If there are extras, then those passages are either untrue, or they are some sort of allegory. The do not appear to be allegory, so the most logical choice is that the others are not complete. If they are not complete, then we know that gaps were an allowable custom. Knowing that gaps are allowable, we can assume that all of the genealogies could contain gaps. Now, a little known and underdiscussed fact is, that the Hebrew text from which the 4004 B.C. creation date comes, is the Masoretic text, the major text underlying the translations of many modern Old Testaments. However, copies of the manuscripts of the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew, written some 300 years B.C. with extant copies going back to 400 A.D.) predates the Masoretic text by at least 350 years (the the oldest extant copy of the Masoretic text is Masoretic text dating to the 9th and 10th centuries A.D.) . Jesus and the apostles frequently quoted the Septuagint, so it is safe to assume it was thought reliable as the word of God. The genealogies of the Septuagint, if totaled in the same way that the 4004 B.C. Creation date was arrived at, push the creation date back to 5315 B.C. See how muddy and impossible it is to determine the date from the scripture? To me then, the Bible allows for an undetermined age of the Earth, and mankind is at least 6000 years old (7300 if going by the Septuagint). Which brings us to the length of creation time passed before God created mankind. The Old Earth Theorists, will have to hold to the idea that the 5 days prior to the creation of man, are not 5 literal days, but days which are of undetermined lengths of time, even millions of years each. This is done to force the scriptures to harmonize with scientific conclusions. That people may choose to interpret the Bible according to the dictates of predominantly atheistic scientists, is their own business. I think that it sets a very dangerous precedent, which allows for changing the meaning of the word of God, to suit whatever belief is in fashion. This is already being done in other portions of scripture. For example, science is looking to find a genetic causation for the behavior of homosexuality. If a link can be found to exist between heredity and sexual orientation, then what will follow is a discounting of the biblical notion that the practice homosexuality is a sin. Now, that leap will not be a logical one, but the leap will be made, never-the-less. I could cite other examples, but this one will serve to illustrate the point. However, even if it can be proven that homosexuality is genetically caused, it still does not alter the fact that God calls it a sin to practice, just as He calls it a sin for heterosexuals to act out their carnal desires outside of the man/woman marriage that He ordained. For myself, I shall not ever use the temporary and ever-changing opinions of science (or political correctness) to interpret the God inspired scriptures which never need adjustment, but that is just me. Many Old Earth Creationists are aware of the supremacy of God’s word, but just do not have enough faith in the most natural interpretation of scripture to overcome their faith in modern science. In such cases, I can understand that, but I wish more of them were honest about that fact that that is what the problem is. Sadly, too many choose instead, to find that the traditional beliefs of Christianity are suspect and inferior. It should not take any effort on my part, to convince anyone that the most natural interpretation of the creation days of Genesis, is that they are 6 literal days. Nothing in the text suggests otherwise. Old earth creationists will sometimes go to great lengths to point out that the Hebrew word for day, does not always mean a literal, twenty-four hour day. They are absolutely correct on that point. This Hebrew word is “Yom”. Gen 1:4-5 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning — the first day. (NIV) The first thing to notice about the word “day” as used in the creation account, is that it comes to us pre-defined. The light God called day. We do the same thing to this day. Also, one light and dark cycle, is also called a day. Just like we do. The implications of this one verse are a monumental obstacle, to anyone who wishes to maintain the notion that a day in Genesis, represents a length of time of thousands or millions of years. For one thing, we see here that in context, the word day is used identically as it is normally used in modern English. The internal, literary evidence therefore points to the conclusion that God intended this portion of scripture to be understood as literal, that a day is simply one cycle of light, most likely, near 24 hours long. To assume that something else is intended, is a gross violation of long established rules of interpretation, not only of the Bible, but for any document. Let’s suspend those rules momentarily, and allow for the idea that this day is, for example, not 24 hours, but one million years. Does this help Genesis square with modern scientific opinion? An interesting thing to note in the Genesis account, is that during this first day, the Sun has not yet been caused to shine upon the earth. The lightness and darkness that is cycling, is not sunlight. This gives some wiggle room because this light and dark, may not be dependent upon the rotation of the earth. We could say perhaps, that days were longer at that time. It get’s more difficult to maintain this notion though at creation day 4: Gen 1:16-19 16 God made two great lights — the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning — the fourth day. (NIV) If these days are not 24 hours long, and we go back to the idea that a day is one million years long, might it be that the light was on for 500,000 years during a light/dark cycle. Since the old Earth theory is done to accommodate scientific opinion, then we should be consistent and assess the implication of 500,000 years of light. Is this light of similar intensity to what we experience from the Sun? If so, what would the surface temperature of the Earth rise to? Would the plants (created on the third day) survive the temperatures? Could they survive 500,000 years of darkness and no photosynthesis? I think interpreting the scriptures to accommodate scientific consensus, causes more problems that it solves. I think we have seen that interpreting Genesis passage literally, makes the most sense from a literary perspective. We have seen that interpreting it in the light of science, makes the text into nonsense. What about this word "yom" we touched on briefly, is there a reason to expect that it might mean other than 24 hours in the original Hebrew? My Bible software reports that this word "yom" occurs 2304 times in the Old Testament. That should be plenty of data to work with, to discover the likelihood that yom should be understood as some sort of age. How many times is yom not 24 hours in the Bible? Here are examples of how it is used otherwise: (1)The span of human life. – Gen 5:4: “And the days of Adam …. were eight hundred years.” “And if thou wilt walk …. then I will lengthen thy days” (1 Kings 3:14; compare Ps 90:12; Isa 38:5). (2) An indefinite time. – Existence in general: Gen 3:14: “All the days of thy life” (compare Gen 21:34; Num 9:19; Josh 22:3; Luke 1:24; Acts 21:10). (3) A set time. – Gen 25:24: “And when her days …. were fulfilled”; Dan 12:13: “Thou shalt stand in thy lot, at the end of the days” (compare Lev 12:6; Dan 2:44). (4) A historic period. – Gen 6:4: “The Nephilim were in the earth in those days”; Judg 17:6: “In those days there was no king in Israel” (compare 1 Sam 3:1; 1 Chron 5:17; Hos 2:13). (5) Past time. – Ps 18:18: “the day of my calamity”; Ps 77:5: “I have considered the days of old” (of Mic 7:20; Mal 3:7; Matt 23:30). (6) Future time. – Deut 31:14: “Thy days approach that thou must die”; Ps 72:7: “In his days shall ….” (compare Ezek 22:14; Joel 2:29; Matt 24:19; 2 Peter 3:3; Rev 9:6). (7) The eternal. – In Dan 7:9,13, where God is called “the ancient of days.” (8) A season of opportunity. – John 9:4: “We must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work” (compare Rom 13:12-13; 1 Thess 5:5-8). See DAY (4), above. That was from the International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, Copyright ©1996 Did you see anything there that seemed to suggest eons of time? Most of those uses are less that a human lifespan. Some, are references to historical periods – in other words AFTER the creation of man. The one possible exception, is number 7 above, but it is a reference to God Himself, not his creation. In short, to say that the word Yom contains the potential to represent millions of years, is forcing a definition or use of it, that is so extreme compared to actual uses of the word, that it can be considered as nothing other than a desperate grasping at straws by those that lack the faith to take God at His word. If any choose to believe the unstable opinions of the sciences over the revelation of God’s word, I am okay with that, I really am. I just wish they would have the honesty to state that they feel the need to abuse the science of hermeneutics to satisfy their own uneasiness about God’s word, instead of trying to convince others that it is somehow justified or legitimate to force personal beliefs upon the interpretation of scripture. To quote Prof. James Barr from the EXPOSITOR’S BIBLE: “If the word ‘day’ in this chapter does not mean the period of 24 hours, the interpretation of Scripture is hopeless.”. Is the evidence too strong against the bible, or at least of a literal interpretation of it? Certainly if scientific consensus is going to be the determining factor concerning out faith and theology, we have to ask the question: What about the resurrection? Scientific consensus would be that a man who dies, and remains dead for three days, stays dead. If God cannot defy the opinions of scientists, then no miracles happen, not now, not ever, and the resurrection never took place. If that is true, then Christianity is little more than a collection of interesting tales, sort of like Aesop's Fables. If God is going to be limited to our understanding of the laws of nature, then why would we be wondering about the length of the creation period. A God without the power to do the miraculous, could not bring the creation into existence in the first place. If that creation did not happen, then why would we suspect that creation has an author at all, and without such and author, does sin really exist? Who gets to define what is sin and what is not, who decides how salvation is accomplished or if it is even necessary. Is there really even an afterlife? Apart from a revelation from a supernatural God, these things are all unknowable, and Christianity has no real value. It may not be critically important, how long creation took, but knowing that it took place, believing God by faith that it did, is important, and I have to wonder how much we really believe God, if we cannot trust Him to accurately describe and make plain, the details of His own creation. Consider some of the implications of a lengthy creation. How does it affect other beliefs or statements from the Bible? Do other passages make reference to the creation events – do we call them into question? Did Jesus or the apostles mention anything about the creation account that would leave you to believe that they took it literally – if so, how does that affect their credibility? If we can choose to ignore a literal interpretation in Genesis – do we then grant ourselves the same license in other parts of the Bible – if so, how will you know where and when? These are questions each person must address and consider. While science has century by century, worked to discover how the universe works, each generation of scientists has seen major scientific opinions come and go. Each generation of scientists indeed, has at it’s disposal, new knowledge and new tools to investigate the natural world. Each generation has advanced the collective knowledge of mankind, and each has refuted theories held dearly by colleagues of previous generations, and yet, after thousands of years, is still seeking answers to fundamental questions, answers that are elusive. Meanwhile, the Christian is able to hold the same views as Jesus and the apostles expressed 2000 years ago, with no need to apologize for any of them. The 20th Century saw the sciences advance at a tremendous rate, but as theories about origins and cosmology became more refined and old ones discarded as obsolete, we found that the theories of prevailing science, are looking more like the bible all the time. Of course, science cannot truly address origins and cosmology ultimately, because those things are outside of it’s scope of examination. Science works in the present, it examines present clues about past events. The past is not like electricity or chemistry, it cannot be replicated or examined directly. Modern science is even more at a disadvantage, to look into matters of a spiritual nature. Science examines natural phenomena, the supernatural is outside it’s purview. Still, it is interesting to observe that scientists seem to be edging their way toward beliefs that the bible expressed all along. Considering that the bible is not intended to be a science text book, it is remarkable how many scientific facts it got right before scientists would discover them. Addendum, added on 11/14/2014 Some years ago I developed a calculator which computes theoretical future population numbers from assumed starting calculation numbers and factors like length of generations, birth rates etc. It cannot adequately factor in unknown and unpredictable events like plagues, wars, etc. due to complexity and my own ignorance on those subjects. I also know that there is some error in the math, that skews the results by a generation or two, and I have not been able to figure out where the error lies, and have given up trying, I have more important things to do. However, if you would like to speculate and experiment with the calculator, using your own chosen assumptions, I have decided to publish the calculator as it is. While it is imperfect, I beleive it does demonstrate that the young earth model is more feasible that the ancient earth model, based on math and what we know about population growth and statistics, if the interests you at all, have fun by: clicking here. (http://omegazine.com/population/populationpredictions/populationpredictions.htm) Below were 10 Responses to the original posting of “On the significance of the age of the Earth”: shawn Says: March 9th, 2009 at 11:16 am This is such an unfortunate topic for Christians. I am a believer in Yeshua. I also believe that Rome High jacked Christianity and changed it into what ever they wanted. Not only did they change the Shabbat to the day they worshiped the sun, as well as a great many other holy days, but they also changed the relationship between the Torah and science. In Judaism the Torah and modern science go hand in hand. Many of the great Jewish sages hundreds of years ago calculated the age of the universe to be 13 billion years old and they did this using the same bible that christians use to say the earth is only 6000 years old. Because Rome high jacked christianity and changed a great many of things we have not only lost great spiritual gifts but we have also lost a most basic understanding of our natural universe that the rabbi’s have until this very day. If you want to rectify the bible and science you dont need to try and debunk science, science is from Hashem. Science is good, it is our roman inheritance of the hatred of science that is bad. Rome hated science because they hated any opposition to their views on how to interepret the bible. But if we take back what rome stole from us, our Israelite heratige as christians, then we will finally be able to rectify not only science but also a great many spiritual gifts and understandings that were stolen from us. Blessing to you and your community in the name of Yeshua HaMashiach our Rabbi. josiah Says: April 6th, 2009 at 7:35 am hi..My name is Jos , from new zealand and im 38 years of age, currently studying at otago unversity in new zealand. I disagree with some of your statements, and would like to offer a rebuttal.I dont think this is a unfortunate topic, nor do i agree with your quote that it is irrelevant..I quote from your text “Personally, I believe the age of the Earth as it relates to an unbeliever is of little significance, and is usually either an excuse not to believe, or is a way of avoiding the important topic of the unbelievers salvation. As a believer addressing this issue with an unbeliever, I will point out that there are believers that hold both positions and that the real topic of concern is whether Jesus came to Earth, died for our sins, and was resurrected on the third day. That is the belief upon which our salvation rests, and any other topic pales in importance” If you look into the historical context, to the unbeliver, the church has always suppresed the formation of scientific ideas formed from observation and interpretation of the results.This is why we had “dark ages” and why they are called “dark ages”. Christians are all too happy to accept the material benifits of technological and scientific endevour, such as internet, computers, carpets and the lightbulb but when it comes to facing up to the questions asked by the scientific community, most immediatly go into ostritch mode and pretend they dont exist until the thing goes away. but the thing doesnt go away, and now all the things that havent gone away are taught as scientific fact to your children.I dont have any children, so that why i say your children. I am a christian – that is i belive and try to adhere to the teachings of Jesus of nazereth and his disiples.I belive Jesus of nazereth is the son of God. I belive he died on our behalf for my sins and wrongdoings against God, and by accepting his sacrifice on my behalf i will have eternal life with him in The presence of God the Father and The holy spirit and all the Angels and others who have believed as i do. I also belive that the law and the prophets, the old testament was inspired by God and in some books directly transmitted by God Orally to Moses, such as the book of Genesis. I belive that the interpretation of the words of Genesis is literal, that is creation took 6 literal 24 hour periods.I am also a scientist. I am currently returned to university to undertake a B.A. in Lingustics, with a minor in Geology. I like volcanoes. i know that the current interpretation of the Geological record is in error. The majority of the Geologic community dissagree with me. some might even go so far as to say that i am misguided, or quite simply a religous nutter.you can imagine that someone with views like mine goes down in academic circles like a lead balloon at a party.lol. But there are flaws in the theory of geologic time, that can be found. The truth points to itself. Its time for us to admit we don’t know all the answers, nor should we pretend too.This is the crux of what scientific method or reasoning is about -to quote websters dictionary… “principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses..” but i do belive we should tackle these problems with Faith in the Lord Jesus christ as our guide, pray for guidance, and look for credible scientific evidence to support the creation story and present this to everyone freely for discussion and debate because surely as eggs are eggs if we dont try to answer the hard questions, and tackle the problems presented by the current view of the community at large for a old earth and no God, why should people resonably listen to us when we try to share our beliefs? And as you can see currently in the textbooks of any mainstream high school, the Devil is not lax. What makes us different from the ten-thousand other wacko’s with thier own take on The metaphysical universe? I personally dont belive, although i may be wrong, that Paul the apostle, who was a learned man would agree with your arguement, but putting it in context, he said” i count it all as loss for the gospel,” yet he reasoned with men, trying to win them over to the gospel by showing them thier errors in logical thinking as well as christian works of good deeds, and living at peace with all men as far as possible. I hope you take my argument to heart and consider it. afterwards, you may still belive that i am wrong.I would like to hear your thoughts. jos..11.35, 6th april 2009. Omegaman 2.0 Responds: April 10th, 2009 at 12:31 am Hi Jos, I don’t think I have anything to disagree with there, and yet my mind has not changed. How is this possible? I am an apologist, I believe in being ready always to give and answer for the hope that I have. Does my hope lie in the age of the earth, or in questions like “how could all the animals fit on the ark”? My hope lies in a risen savior. That is what I am supposed to defend. I am a young earther personally, but I find that giving answers to defend that view to be a poor investment in time. I have those answers, and answers for the animals on the ark etc. How about the existence of God? Yes, I can defend those too. I have spent hours at a time doing so many times, and in my experience, all I end up doing is convincing people that I am more knowledgeable than they first believed, and that I actually have some good points. Good for my ego, but not worthwhile. That is all well and good, if my task is to win debates, but I think it more important, to win souls. So, I may have not been clear on my comments, by not being thorough enough in my explanation. My point is, that Christians can go round and round debating the age of the earth themselves, the topic is not relevant to unbelievers from our point of view if it does not move them closer to a decision. I think that these kind of doubts, shared by believers and unbelievers alike, distract us from the real issues. If a person is curious about how I can hold a young earth view, I will make my response in as brief and yet convincing way that I can, but I am going to change the topic to the gospel as quickly as I can – the heart of what I am called to defend. What I find is, that as soon as I defend the early age of the earth, the subject will then go: “what about the animals”, I answer and the subject then goes “what about all the contradictions in the Bible”, and so on and so on and so on. Games of "what about" and "what if", are the ploys of one who seeks to win a debate, not one who wants to ponder the issues. Paul described a type of person that would exist in the last days: ” They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. – 2 Tim 3:6-7 NIV I do not want to enable anyone to remain in that category – merely always learning. I want to attempt to get them to acknowledge the truth. In as much as Jesus instructed the disciples: “If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.” - Matt 10:14 I take it He meant that we need to be wise, not wasting time casting our pearls before swine, but instead, moving on to greener pastures, where the sheep know they need a shepherd. Lest you still miss my point, I was not trying to say that the age of the earth is of no relevance, and certainly your point about Christians needing to have credibility is a valid one. However, most of the people that the normal Christian encounters, are not scientists, are not familiar with the research nor the scientific method. For the average Christian to try to convince the average unbeliever on the topics in early Genesis, is very difficult. After all, if that person is swayed by science, he will most likely automatically ignore the opinion of a Christian, who is not a scientist normally, and favor the opinion of an actual expert. If he is not swayed by science, then you are wasting your time anyway, as he will not listen to either one of you. Remember, even Christians disagree on the topic, so, I would rather move on to the topic all Christians agree on, the person of Jesus Christ, the center of our faith and hope. To quote you: “I like volcanoes. i know that the current interpretation of the Geological record is in error. The majority of the Geologic community disagree with me. some might even go so far as to say that i am misguided, or quite simply a religious nutter.you can imagine that someone with views like mine goes down in academic circles like a lead balloon at a party.” I believe you, and I believe the the unbelieving world get that. If you cannot convince your colleagues, I am not sure how successful you will be with those who are more willing to believe them that you. Now in the context of academic circles, I believe these topics are critically important. I am just referring to the day to day encounters of believers, who spend time in debates that cannot be won, because in those debates, it is not the truth that matters to some, the only thing that matters to them is to win, or, in some cases to not lose, and therefore remain comfortable in their unbelief. In as much as there are Christians who believe that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, who came and died for our sins, that we might be forgiven and have eternal life, who also believe that the Bible is the inerrant and inspired word of God and who also believe in an ancient earth and a lengthy creation process, I have little desire, nor do I see much benefit, to devoting too much time to topics that do little to advance the case of Christ. The topic is not related to salvation, and that is why I give it little significance. That is all I meant by that paragraph that you so eloquently and respectfully rebutted. Thank you for taking the time to read my ‘article’ and investing the time to correct me. Omegaman Omegaman 2.0 Responds: April 11th, 2009 at 3:12 am Quoteing Shawn: “In Judaism the Torah and modern science go hand in hand. Many of the great Jewish sages hundreds of years ago calculated the age of the universe to be 13 billion years old and they did this using the same bible that christians use to say the earth is only 6000 years old. ” Do you have any sources for this Shawn, that would be interesting to see. I also cannot fathom that anyone could “calculate” 13 billion years using anything in the Bible. If it was Rome that hijaaked the faith and came up with the 6000 year old calculation, why does the Jewish calendar indicate that it as been 5769 years since the creation? FresnoJoe Says: May 31st, 2009 at 4:05 am The Reason I Must Discount The Speculations Of Various White Coats And Such Is The Record Of Book Of Beginnings And All The References (OT/NT) To My LORD’s Part As Creator And The Accounting Of The Short Lineage Of The Brothers/Sisters From Jesus All The Way Back To The Sixth Day Of Creation “And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,” “Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,” “Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,” “Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,” “Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,” “Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,” “Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,” “Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,” “Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,” “Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,” “Which was th”e son of Aminadab, which was the son of Aram, which was the son of Esrom, which was the son of Phares, which was the son of Juda,” “Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor,” “Which was the son of Saruch, which was the son of Ragau, which was the son of Phalec, which was the son of Heber, which was the son of Sala,” “Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,” “Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,” “Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.” Luke 3:23-38 If One Believes In The Resurrection (After Three Days!) Of The Uncorrupted Physical Body Of Our LORD And Our Savior And The Redemption Of Vile Hateful Sinner Man By The Holy And Pure Blood Of The Lamb Of God Then The Creation Of Life, The Universe And Everything Is Just The Finger Play Of God And Will Be Nothing Compared To The Knowledge Of The Heights Of The Love And The Amazing Grace God Offers To The Sons Of Adam To Folks Such As You And I Love, Joe andrew o'shea Says June 19th, 2009 at 7:04 am: oh the mysteries of God. all will be revealed at the gathering of the saints, children of God who believe in the Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua. people by nature like to argue, that has always been man’s problem and why we have to have wars. It is by faith we believe God, a gift He gave us. I had my experience and have never looked back, i believe God. The only thing that matters to me is that i can relate to people the love God has for them that may recieve remission of sins and eternal life, John 14 v 26 the Holy Spirit will teach us all things and bring to our rememberance all the things we have been taught.’ it really doesn’t matter to me how old the earth is rather how much time is left. a great deception of the enemy is to get us to focus on things any thing that distracts from the salvation message, eternal life. we can ask and be told how old the earth is,i did, God bless you all on your journeys, no i wont ‘measure the earth’ i wouldn’t know where to begin. searching scripture i came to approx. 6000 years, think about God’s time line, 7 is a sabbath,mmmm getting close to Jesus return. come Lord come hallelujah, repent and be save God loves us amen Linda Says July 3rd, 2009 at 10:40 pm: Here’s a way to think about the “How old is the earth” question. When God created Adam he created a man. Not baby. Not a child. Simply put…. who is to say that God did not create the earth as an “adult earth”. Why do we think it had to be created in an infant stage? Lean not to our own understanding. Omegaman 2.0 Responds: July 15th, 2009 at 11:16 pm Hi Linda. I believe you are relating an argument often put forth by those who hold to an old earth theory, in answer to those who hold to the idea of an more recent creation on the basis that the universe and the earth appears old, much older than 6000 ears. The young earthers sometimes respond to the that the earth has an appearance of age, because God created it that way, mature as you put it. There answer to that would be that the earth does not just appear mature, it appears worn out. By analogy with adam, it would be like God created Adam with teeth that were worn down, were stained yellow, had cavities and perhaps few missing as well. By this analogy, Eve would be looking in the mirror at her gray hair and wrinkles on her first day, if she had been created with the appearance of age, instead of mere maturity. Many scientists and those who follow their lead, believe the earth worn, not merely mature. While my point was that the whole issue should not given more importance than it merits. That being said, I will give the response that the Old Earthers would give. They would also point out, that if God created the world to look that old, when it was in fact only a few thousand years old, then that would make God a deceiver, as though He was trying to fool people into believing the young earth was ancient, when that is not the case. Personally, I find that to be one of the most powerful arguments from the Old Earth camp. Of course, like most things there are difficulties. While an old earther can state that creating an earth to look old, makes God a deceiver if it is in fact young, does not the old earther have the same dilemma, if the earth is actually old, yet God chose to say it is young in His word? I prefer to accept that the earth is young, doing my best to understand scripture, and maintain that God is not a deceiver, but that some scientists are in error in how they interpret data, and in some cases, maybe they are the deceivers. I could go into details of what I think might be solutions to why the young earth appears old, but that is not the purpose of the post. I am not putting forth an apologetic for a young earth, I am making the point that faith in what God has said, trumps evidence from modern science for believers who think like I do. Sohei Says: August 21st, 2009 at 3:48 am Wasn’t Jesus a Jewish rabbi? Then he was taught same as others, which he didn’t dispute. They say Earth is 5769 years old. I would guess you would have to argue with what Jesus was taught. Sohei, do you have any source material demonstrating that the belief among Jewish rabbis 2000 years ago, was in a young earth of the age you suggest? I don't think Jesus was a rabbi in the way we usually think of the term, but I do suspect, that He would have understood from the scripture, that the earth was fairly recent, and of course being the Creator, He actually knew for certain at some level. winsomebulldog Says March 26th, 2010 at 9:53 am: I’m not positive about how old this post is, but I just wanted to leave a quick comment none-the-less. I have read through several of your posts and find it comforting to encounter another “scientifically minded” Christian. Sometimes, those two things instigate internal battles, and some might even argue that the very notion is an oxymoron. My husband and I cannot, however, change who and what we are. We are intelligent people who respect and appreciate the sciences. We are also Christians. Our faith does, and in truth must, outweigh our intelligence. Our God gave us both the ability to learn and a hunger for learning. Hubby is an engineer and at one time was in the aeronautical engineering program at Perdu University with an eye toward NASA. He has a grasp of physics and math that I cannot even fathom at times. But even he knows that science is nothing more than an effort by finite, fallible humans to define and quantify the unfathomable. Personally, I am willing to admit that there have been times in my life that I found myself struggling to reconcile what my mind wanted to believe and what my faith demanded that I accept. It is very easy, I think, for a scientifically minded Christian to be seduced by all the scientific “evidence.” It can sound so convincing. And Lord knows that scientists these days are very fond of spouting off their theories as if they are in fact scientific laws. (One look at the pervasive THEORY of evolution is evidence of that.) Hubby and I are fond of scientific programming on television and have watched more than a few that dealt with everything from dinosaurs to the big bang theory. How anyone with a critical mind could not see the evidence of the countless suppositions that are made here is beyond us both. We have both concluded that it would be vastly easier to be Christians without a bent toward scientific, critical thinking. But God did not create us that way and so we must both strive to never let our brains override our faith. I have rambled on far longer than I intended. But I really wanted to let you know how much I have appreciated your posts. Thank you for speaking your mind without fear. And thank God for forums like this that allow Christians everywhere to connect and share. God Bless You.
  13. The Post-trib position in a nutshell compared with the Bible A short bible study on a topic that some want to make way too complicated - Omegaman Post-Trib Belief What the Bible (NASB) Says The software here makes formatting difficult. There is an easier to read version if you prefer There will be a time of trouble Jesus called birth pangs You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 7“But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Followed by persecution, even to death, a time of tribulation 7“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. There will be a sign 15“Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Then the tribulation will be great, but it will be limited 21“For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. After the tribulation, Jesus will come visibly in the sky 29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. He then will send angels to gather His elect 31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. In Jesus time, only the Father knew the exact time of Jesus visible return 36“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. But it will be like the days of Noah, when calamity overtook the surprised unbelievers 37“For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Believers should also be ready for His return, though they do not know the exact time. 42“Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. 44“For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. The Bible, to prevent deception. tells us the order of the events: 3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” 4And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you." Every verse listed so far, was from the 24th Chapter of the book of Matthew. You have just read them yourself, exactly as they are in the bible, and in the same order, so you can see for yourself, what Jesus said about these things.As you can see, He did not use figurative or symbolic language, he was very clear, and used lots of words which indicat time sequences, words like "then" and "at that time". There is no need to spin Jesus' words or make unwarranted assumptions, as many are tempted to do. Let's look at some more info from the apostles Paul and from John There will be a time when Jesus catches up (raptures) His church. From 1 Thess chapter 4 Notice again the sequence: The Lord descends from Heaven, a shout, and angel, a trumpet, and those who have died in Christ rise, Then the living Christian join them in the air. 13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Like Jesus before him, Paul also said there was a sign to look for, a sigh that would appear before our gathering to Him in the rapture. Beleivers are to look for this man, and by that will now that the 2nd coming of Jesus, is then imminent. 2 Thess 2 1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Jesus will come like a thief on unbeleivers, what watchful Christians will know that He is about to come. 1 Thess 5 1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. Since we know that the dead in Christ rise first, followed by the rapture (vs 16 & 17 of 1 Thess 4) of the living believers, if we only knew if that resurection was before or after the tribulation, we could understand if the rapture was before or after the tribulation. Beleivers who die in the tribulation, for their testimony of Jesus, come to life in the first resurrection, to be followed by the rapture (1 Thess 4:17) rapture. 4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed.) This is the first resurrection. This has been a brief summary of the Post Tribulation Rapture viewpoint, also known as Historic Premillenialism, along with some scripture passages which can be said to support this understanding. There were assertions, and there were supporting verses and passages, without inserting things like an invisible, secret coming (is there even one verse that says that? If so, I have never seen it), and idea that has become popular in modern times. I tried to keep this faithful to scripture, I tried to make it simple and clear. Jesus and Paul warned about deceptions to come, I take those warning seriously. Paul had this to say as well: 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 2 Tim 4 I will end with this thought from the book of Acts: 19“Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, 21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Some versions render that as "He must remain in heaven until the time" Personally, I find all these verses harmonize perfectly well with each other, and I beleive the Post-Trib rapture position, is consistant with them as well. I hope you found this helpful and informative
  14. This video made me take a second look at my life. He has truly shown that there are still some hope for our world. <<<Video Link Removed>>> - OneLight
  15. How was the Bible formed?

    This discussion came up in another thread 1. How as the Bible formed? 2. Who inspired it? 3. Who wrote it? 4. How was it compiled or canonized? 5. Why was it compiled or canonized? Feel free to answer one or all the questions.
  16. What does Scripture mean with the term "Lukewarm"? Rev 3:14-22 To the Church in Laodicea 14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. 15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’” God bless, GE PS - Hint on my view: Matt. 7:15-27
  17. The Love Of Jesus???

    Loves me where I am, but insists on me following Him out of where I am!
  18. I would like to discuss peacefully and logically the following quote... The backing for such a statement is Romans 13. I believe this statement to be FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. This statement does not consider the historical context of the American Revolution. I'm not saying America is perfect but I do not believe the Founding Father's in America violated Scripture. I intend to give evidence of this claim being the promotion of FUD. Were the Colonies in rebellion? Was the revolution justifiable? I beleive the answer is yes. Let us first consider some of the acts passed by British Parliamant leading up to the American Revolution. Second let us look at the reasons for the Revolution. I hope this discussion brings to light the truth and is fruitful to all. God bless, GE
  19. Should the Bride of Christ (the Church) Return to its Hebrew Roots? I'm also interested in Scripture that backs this line of thinking. In Christ, Jon Ground Rules: Let us remember humility, as Believers we are heirs of God with Christ. (Philippians 2:3; 1 Peter 5:5, Romans 8:17) Remember we are to seek restoration with a spirit of gentleness. (Galatians 6:1) We are to be kind and tenderhearted to one another. (Ephesians 5:32)
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