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Found 16 results

  1. Someone who read this list elsewhere, suggested that I post this in my blog, so here it is: Things some people say (which the Bible DOES NOT) about the End Times Notice, that this list, does not establish any end times theory, it tries to prove nothing. It does not even attack a theory, or attempt to refute one. What it does attempt to do, is to get people to ask themselves, why they believe certain things, that the Bible never says. So basically, in between the lines I am asking: If we believe certain things that are not stated in the scripture, and claim that we believe them because that is what scripture teaches, aren't we in principle adding to the words of scripture? Furthermore, if we teach these things as though they are true, does that make us false teachers? So, what things do I claim the Bible does not teach? Following is a short list: 1. It does not say there will be a Rapture of the Church, which occurs before the Great Tribulation. 2. It does not refer to a 7 year period as the Great Tribulation. (See Matt 24:21 & Rev 7:14) 3. It does not say that the Holy Spirit is missing from the Earth at any time during the Great Tribulation. 4. It does not refer to the Great Tribulation, as the wrath of God. 5. It does not say that Jesus will return secretly or invisibly to take His Church. 6. It does not say that no man will ever know the time (the day or hour) of His coming. 7. It does not say that Jesus can return at any moment. 8. It does not say that Jesus will return like a thief in the night for His church. 9. It does not say that believers will not be in the great tribulation, or skip suffering and persecution, or even death. 10. The Bible does not say the Rapture is the Blessed Hope. (Titus 2:13) 11. The Bible does not say that Jesus will return as a thief in the night, in any context that necessitates a pre-tribulation return. 12. It is often said: The Rapture is Jesus coming for His church, the Second Coming is Jesus coming with His church. Those definitions may be workable, however the Bible does not say there is a multi-year interval between those events. 13. The Bible does not say, that there are 144,000 evangelists or witnesses, during the tribulation.
  2. "knock and the door will be opened to you." Imagine this unprecedented event. Christians, from all over the world, united physically in congregations, united virtually through technology, united spiritually in the Holy Ghost, praying together with a clear, unified intention: shortening, hastening the Return of the Lord (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:5-13, Luke 18:1-8) Wouldn’t the Lord be quick, in fulfilling their holy prayer? “[…] And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” This is not happening yet, but we can make it happen. SUMMARY (You can freely download the pdf) 1 - Brief history of the Church 2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans 3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer 4 – The Last Day 5 – While in the world 6 – Warnings 7 – Avoid misconceptions 8 – An unprecedented event 9 – SOURCES 1 - Brief history of the Church Along the history, many spiritual leaders did not listen to (Matthew 23:9-10) “And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah.” Therefore, it comes as no surprise that many false teachings did spread for centuries. Nor it is a surprise that true Christians come to a better understanding of some concepts through centuries, because luckily some of them are able to get rid of the false teachings they have received. Indeed, luckily some listened to Matthew 23:9-10. Moreover, Jesus said (John 16:12): ”I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.” Thus, an increasing understanding, founded on the Gospels and never contradicting them, is to be expected through history. 2 – God wants men to cooperate his plans Even though God could do everything alone, by not waiting his followers to align their will to His will, still he wants men to decide to cooperate with Him, to proceed in His salvation Plan. For those who knows the Scriptures, it’s not needed to quote the countless times in which God waited for men to turn to Him, and adhere His plan, before making things happen. Because being a loving Father, he doesn’t force His will upon men. 3 – The importance of prayer and the Lord’s prayer Point 2 on cooperation between God and men, is one of the reasons why Jesus stressed so much the importance of prayer. To be short, we only quote some passages, but there are countless ones in the Gospels alone: (Matthew 7:7) “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.” (John 16:24) “Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.” Of course, we need to make prayers aligned with God’s will. But even if something is already in God’s will, it’s really important for us to pray for it, because the Lord doesn’t want to force his gifts upon us, but He wants us to desire Him. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be any need for any prayer whatsoever. Now, what’s the only prayer that the Lord directly taught us? The Lord’s prayer. Let’s examine some passages: “your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” […] “And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.” Now, let’s think about it, by knowing the Scriptures. When and how can the Lord completely fulfill these requests? Could they be fulfilled while we are still on earth? 4 – The Last Day It doesn’t take a leap of imagination, to realize that the Lord’s prayer promises will be fully fulfilled only with the Rapture and His Second Coming. [Even the only apparently not messianic request about the “bread”, is translated somewhere as “the bread of tomorrow”, thus indicating the bread of the Kingdom.] Now, it’s not a purpose of this work to choose which interpretation of the Second Coming is more Scriptural. Whatever it is, pre/post/multi/anti/tribulation,this is not the point here. The point is that only in the Last Day, the Lord will fully fulfill the Lord’s prayer requests. Now, are we aware of this? Are we, most Christians, praying that prayer with full intention and awareness, with the awareness that we are asking the Lord, according to His will, to shorten the days of His coming? It doesn’t seem like this awareness has been fully reached so far, but now the times may be arrived. Now this intention can be shared to Christians all over the earth. And it’s nothing new, it’s something fully Scriptural (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13), it’s just a better understanding of the power of our prayer in the name of Jesus. We are not predicting the day or the hour, and we’ll never try to do it. There is no needing of knowing the day nor the our, to ask the Lord to come quick, according to His will. How powerful would be this prayer, shouted by all His elects? What if some wise pastors could be able to share this intention to Christians all over the world, and all together we could pray “Come”, and “Deliver us from evil”, with the full understanding that we are asking for the Rapture, instead of passively waiting for it? This would be an unprecedented event in History, since so far most Christians have passively waited for it 5 – While in the world Asking for the rapture, doesn’t cut off any obligation for a true Christian life. Before Jesus returns, we’ll still have the obligation to love everyone, serve other people, improve the society, improve ourself, spread the Gospel. All of these commandments are in the Gospel and are immutable. At the same time, with this prayer, we clarify our intention to God, we tell Him that we are ready, and it is now time for our plans to align with His plans, and that we fully want and responsibly request His return for the elects. 6 – Warnings Unfortunately, there will always be some Christians who don’t really want the Lord to come soon. They are not excited at all about Heaven. Exactly like in these Parables: (Luke 14:15-20) “When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, “Blessed is the one who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God.” Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ “But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’ “Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’ “Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’ (Luke 19:14) "But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.' (John 12:43) “For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.” But other Christians who aspire to Heaven, would have no reason to not pray this prayer. In the worst case, it will have no effect. In the best case, how glad we will be, to see the Lord coming quickly for us. 7 – Avoid misconceptions Q: “Does praying the Lord to come quickly mean that we don’t trust His promise that He will come?” A: “Absolutely not. The Lord knew the future. He knew about the prayers from His elects, and that he wouldn’t wait to fulfill them. Exactly as in countless other situations, in which the Lord has waited for men to ask Him for what is good. (Matthew 15:21-28). We are sure that His promise will be fulfilled, but we want to be among the ones that have aligned with His will and asked Him to fulfill it quickly.” Q: “Are we forcing the Lord to do something not in His will? Doesn’t He know the Right Time?” A: “He knows the Right Time, and we don’t know according to which criteria He has decided it. But according to the prayer He taught, when He decided it, part of the weight for the decision, came from considering the prayers of His elects (2 Peter 3:12, Revelation 22:17, Revelation 22:20, Matthew 6:13, Luke 18:1-8). Exactly as in other situations, He gave importance and weight to the will of his disciples and prophets, when aligned to His will” Q: “Are Christians praying this prayer exempt to contribute to society, and to spend their lives serving others until the Lord come?” A: “Absolutely not. A real Christian will follow all Jesus words,not only ones about prayer,respect the laws of his country, and will spend His life helping other people, so that when the Lord will come, he will find him ready.” (Matthew 24:45-51) “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Q: “Will shortening the return of the Lord prevent some people from salvation?” A: “First off, remember that there will never be a moment on earth in which everyone will be Christian, before the rapture. It is not written anywhere. On the contrary, it is written about an increasingly diminishing of faith. Moreover, people who haven’t met Christ but are seeking for the Truth in their hearts, and are loving their brothers, will be likely raptured too. Exactly as some other righteous people like Socrates, will be raised in the last day, while evil people who are not seeking for repentance because they don’t have the seed of repentance in their hearts, will be left. Therefore, there is no such risk in shortening the day. Otherwise, the Lord wouldn’t have taught us this prayer.” Q:”What about theological and philosophical implications of this event Why someone is taken and someone else left?” A: “These are not treated here. They will be treated in other works, and some wise pastors will be able to answer this, by following the Scriptures” 8 – An unprecedented event If most Christian living today will share this intention, and pray together for it, this will be an unprecedented even in the history of the world. If the rapture happened centuries ago, it would have likely remained unexplained and not testified everywhere. But nowadays, thanks to technologies and to the Gospel spread everywhere, it will be testified to people of all nations, and everyone will know what happened. Now, our hope is that some wise Christian, who spent their lifes in the hope of Jesus’ Return, will actively spread this prayer and this intention among other pastors and Christians, so that all of us may be reunited under the Lord’s prayer, and pray together, with full intention and understanding and without the usual countless distractions and desires: Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy Name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day the bread of the Day that is coming. And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Maranatha. Our Lord, come! 9 - SOURCES: http://learnbibleprophecy.blogspot.it/2010/12/come-lord-jesus-maranatha.html https://www.oneplace.com/ministries/love-worth-finding/read/articles/can-we-hasten-the-second-coming-of-christ-15204.html http://www.whatsaiththescripture.com/Timeline/Hastening.Lords.Return.html http://christianteaching.org.uk/blog/eschatology/hastening-the-return-of-christ/#comment-32538 http://folkslisten.blogspot.it/2010/06/can-i-speed-up-return-of-jesus.html https://nathanaelflock.wordpress.com/2013/06/17/scriptural-conviction-hastening-the-day-of-the-lord/ http://quailandmanna.com/god-justice/ https://peteenns.com/why-jesus-hasnt-come-back-yet-according-to-the-new-testament/ http://ifollowjesusnow.tk/hastening-ready-day-lord/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIdjGyMTAds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM67orv8VkYF PDF: maranatha.pdf
  3. Index and summaries of all articles is here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1403-index-and-summaries-of-articles/ “…and every eye will see Him…” Part 1 Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see/gaze upon Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will wail because of Him. Even so, Amen. How will it be that every eye will see Jesus Christ at His Coming? What do the Scriptures tell us? According to Zech 12:10, “they who who pierced him” will include many of the living, apparently because of their continued rejection of Jesus as Messiah up to the very instant that they see him: Zech 12:10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplications; and they will look intently toward Me whom they pierced, and they will mourn over Him as one mourns over the only son, and grieve over Him as one grieves over the firstborn.” However, Matthew 26:64 says that ones who are now among the dead – those who literally caused him to be pierced – will also see him: Matt 26:63 And the high priest answered and said to Him, “I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!” 64 Jesus said to him, “It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see/gaze upon the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Now, “every eye” certainly did not see Jesus ascend from the Mount of Olives. Acts 1:9-10 That event was only seen by his disciples. Therein lies a clue as to their type of vision. Here are more scriptural clues to consider: 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not yet been manifested what we shall be; but we know that when He shall be manifested, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 Cor. 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. Luke 12:2 “For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known. 3 Therefore whatever you have spoken in the dark will be heard in the light...” 2 Thes. 1:7 ...when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels... 8 ...those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ... 9 ...shall be punished with everlasting destruction apo/away from the Face of the Lord and apo/away from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe... What I see in these passages is this: when the Lord appears, “every eye will see him.” The Greek word for “see” here is “optanomai: to gaze upon, i.e. with wide-open eyes, as at something remarkable.” (Strong's G3700) In short, everyone will be awe-struck. For those of us who love Him and have prepared ourselves for this moment, our spirits will move into His Spirit, “we shall [then] be like Him,” and be caught up to Him. But for those who have not loved Him, or have not been prepared for this sight, they will be struck with fear and shame. This is why “all the tribes of the earth will mourn/wail because of Him,” and be removed away from His Face. More on that later.
  4. Index and summaries of all articles is here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1403-index-and-summaries-of-articles/ Part 3 The Lord chose to scatter a multitude of prophetic pieces of the End Time jigsaw puzzle-picture throughout the Bible. Most people try to assemble all of the scattered pieces into one complete scene without ever having any picture on a box cover to guide them. The Exodus story provides a guiding picture. Every basic theme and event of the End Times is in that biblical picture story, but people refuse to look at it. Instead, they work from distorted pictures formed in their minds out of presumptions about how they think things will be, or from what others have told them. And so they end up trying to jam puzzle pieces together that weren't made to fit the way they think they should. To retrace a bit: Ex. 19:17-18 And Moses brought forth [all] the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of...Mount Sinai... Heb. 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion… Ex. 20:18 ... the people...fell back and stood afar off... Deut. 18:16 ...saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. Heb. 12:25 See that you do not...turn away from Him who speaks from heaven... Four types of people came to earthly Mount Sinai and saw and heard God. The same four types shall see and hear God reveal Himself from heavenly Mount Zion. As we have seen, the first type, people having the primary nature of the flesh, i.e. the heathen, will always flee and hide in fear from the Presence of the Holy One. The second type are people having the primary nature of the soul [Hebr. nephesh; Grk. psuche/“psyche”]: Lev. 17:11; Gen. 9:4 The soul of the flesh is in the blood. These are people who belong, either by heritage or by choice, to the blood/soul lineage of Israel: all who have cleaved to Israel's God by accepting His Covenant of Ten Commandments, which was established with Israel at Mount Sinai. These are people who live moral lives with their neighbors upon the earth, not corrupting their flesh and souls with God-forbidden desires and lusts. But these are not people who have been infilled by the Holy Spirit, and have thereafter lived their lives being guided by the very Spirit of Christ. Rom. 8:9; 2 Cor. 3:17 When soulish people meet God, they do not flee; but neither are they able to fully enter into his Presence. They are convinced, but not fully transformed. They are honored by God, but he does not accept them up into the cloud. Rather, he selects them for offices of earthly service, that is, as elders and priests over matters concerning flesh and blood. The 70 elders of Israel and the Levitical priesthood typified those called into such offices: Ex. 24:1 And He said unto Moses, “Ascend unto the LORD, you, and [Levitical priests] Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship from afar off. 10 ...and they saw the God of Israel... 14 And [Moses] said to the elders, “Wait here for us until we come back to you.” [!] Rev. 7:2 [END TIMES] Then I saw another angel... 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth…until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 ...One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed. Zech. 12:10 [END TIMES] “And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplications, and they will look intently toward [not away from] me whom they pierced.” … 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself...” The heathen will flee and hide away from the Face of God; but the Israelite servants of God will look toward him, and Matt 26:64 “...see/gaze upon the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” The faithful to YHWH, but (formerly) blinded-to-Christ elders and religious leaders of Israel, will see God having Christ at his right hand, and will realize that this is the fulfillment of Psalm 110's prophecy about their Messiah: Ps. 110:1 YHWH said unto my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.” They will repent, and God will pour out his grace upon them, and seal them for His service upon earth.
  5. Index and summaries of all articles is here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1403-index-and-summaries-of-articles/ Part 4 When the Holy One reveals His Presence to those upon earth, both past (at Mount Sinai) and future (from heavenly Mount Zion), those of fleshly and soulish natures cannot enter within the sphere of the Presence, which manifests as a mass of clouds having the Light of God at its center. At such times, the third of the four types of people to see the event are those having the primary nature of the spirit [Hebr. ruach; Grk. pneuma]. In the Exodus-era prophetic picture, these were represented by Joshua. He was the only Spirit-level man of that soulish and carnal era. Whereas the priests and elders were called to ascend before God yet still remain “afar off,” Joshua the attendant of Moses was called to ascend upon the mountain itself: Ex. 24:12 Then the LORD said to Moses, Come up to me on the mountain and be there... 13 So Moses rose up, and his attendant Joshua: and Moses [and Joshua] ascended into the mountain of God. 14 And he said unto the elders, Wait here for us, until we come back to you. 15 Then Moses [and Joshua] ascended into the mountain, and the cloud covered/enclosed/clothed the mountain. “The cloud” here speaks of the outer covering – that is, the outer veil – of the Presence of God. In the Mosaic Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple, this was represented by the Holy Place (front chamber) of the sanctuary. When Moses and Joshua were enclosed within the cloud, they came into the Presence, from which the Adamic race had been cut off (with a limited few exceptions, e.g. Enoch) since the fall of Adam and Eve. This second-level ascent is a prophetic picture of the End Time Rapture of the Spirit-filled Church: Rev. 1:7 Behold, He is coming with the clouds… Luke 21:27 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 1 Thes. 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven... 17 Then we…shall be caught up…in clouds, into a meeting of the Lord in air. And so always with the Lord we shall be. To “always be with the Lord” is to eternally be clothed with = dwell within the Holy Presence. In the Exodus-era's prophetic picture of this, even though Joshua by necessity had to later descend from earthly Mount Sinai, Scripture tells us – Ex. 33:11 …[Moses'] assistant Joshua…did not depart from the tabernacle. The same is said of the Spirit-infilled believers caught up/Raptured to heaven in the End Times: Rev. 7:14 …the ones coming out of the Great Tribulation… 9 …clothed in white robes… 15 …[are to] serve Him [God] day and night in His [heavenly] sanctuary. The fourth type of people are those called into the very Light of the Holy Presence. In the Exodus-era's prophetic picture, Moses alone represented this type: Ex. 24:2 Moses alone shall come near the LORD… 17 The sight of the Glory of the LORD was like a consuming fire on the top of the mountain... 18 So Moses went into the center of the cloud and ascended into the mountain… Ex. 33:11 And the LORD spoke to Moses face to face, like one speaks to his friend. Because of Moses' closeness to the Light of the Face of God, Ex. 34:29 …the skin of [Moses'] face shone while he talked with Him. [And for sometimes afterwards. 34:30-35] In the Mosaic Tabernacle and Solomon's Temple, the Most Holy Place (innermost chamber) of the sanctuary was the only place a man could approach near unto the Glory/Light of the Presence. The two chambers of the sanctuary represent the middle and highest of the three heavens (2 Cor. 12:2), requiring respectively greater levels of sanctity to enter. In the Seventh Millennium, apparently no man will be able to approach God face-to-face except for Jesus, the High Priest of the Melchizedek (heavenly) priesthood. All views of the Glory of the Father will be, as Ezekiel once described it, an “appearance of the likeness of the Glory of YHWH.” Ezek. 1:28 (Even Moses was only able to see “the form/similitude of the LORD.” Num. 12:8; cf. Ex.33:20) Not until the Eighth Millennium, when the old, sin-corrupted heavens and earth have “passed away,” and sanctified “new heavens and a new earth” have been created (Rev. 21:1; Is. 65:17; 66:22), will mankind be permitted to Rev. 22:4 …see/gaze upon His Face; and His Name shall be upon their foreheads.
  6. Things the Bible DOES NOT SAY about the End Times Notice, that this list, does not establish any end times theory, it tries to prove nothing. It does not even attack a theory, or attempt to refute one. What it does attempt to do, is to get people to ask themselves, why they believe certain things, that the Bible never says. So basically, in between the lines I am asking: If we believe certain things that are not stated in the scripture, and claim that we believe them because that is what scripture teaches, aren't we in principle adding to the words of scripture? Furthermore, if we teach these things as though they are true, does that make us false teachers? So, what things do I claim the Bible does not teach? Following is a short list: 1. It does not say there will be a Rapture of the Church, which occurs before the Great Tribulation. 2. It does not refer to a 7 year period as the Great Tribulation. 3. It does not say that the Holy Spirit is removed from the Earth at any time during the Great Tribulation. 4. It does not refer to the Great Tribulation, as the wrath of God. 5. It does not say that Jesus will return secretly or invisibly to take His Church. 6. It does not say that no man will ever know the time (the day or hour) of His coming. 7. It does not say that Jesus can return at any moment. 8. It does not say that Jesus will return like a thief in the night for His church. 9. It does not say that believers will not be in the great tribulation, or skip suffering and persecution, or even death. Now, am I wrong about anything on that list. If so, can you provide scripture citations that would make anything in the list a misstatement? Thanks for your help! P.S. Please try to stick to the actual topic, and provide us with the information which would show me to be in error, when I claim the bible does not express the ideas in the list. Also not, that in the thread that follows, other ideas that could be added to the list are these: 10. The Bible does not explicitly say the the Rapture is the Blessed Hope. 11. Jesus is not said to return as a thief in the night, in any context that necessitates a pre-tribulation return. 12. It is often said: The Rapture is Jesus coming for His church, the Second Coming is Jesus coming with His church. I think those definitions are workable, but the Bible does not say there is a multi-year interval between those events. 13. The Bible does not say, that there are 144,000 evangelists or witnesses, during the tribulation. Helpful link to common verses applied to this topic
  7. Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, Can someone please help me? Can you tell me if all these verses refer to the same event? Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low: Isa 2:13 And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, that are high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan, Isa 2:14 And upon all the high mountains, and upon all the hills that are lifted up, Isa 2:15 And upon every high tower, and upon every fenced wall, Isa 2:16 And upon all the ships of Tarshish, and upon all pleasant pictures. Isa 2:17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. Isa 2:18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish. Isa 2:19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. Isa 2:20 In that day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; Isa 2:21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. Isa 13:6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Isa 13:7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: Isa 13:8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. Are each of these passages speaking of the same event? It appears that they are. Please provide proof if they are not all referring to the same event. Thanks
  8. As Christians, at least some of us are looking forward to the return of Jesus (call it Rapture, Second Coming or any other way and regardless the different interpretations of the intermediate events)Now usually, we pray the Lord for good things that we would like in our lives because Jesus has taught us to ASK for good things we want in many passages (Luke 18:1-8, John 14:13-14, Matthew 21:22, John 16:24, and many others)It is reasonable to think that asking is an important step in the relationship between men and God.And what to ask? In the Lord prayer, there are are many (if not all) passages that will be fulfilled completely only on the Second Coming: - The kingdom of the Lord has not completely come, and His will is not completely done on earth, and it will not until His return, and the separation of sheeps and goats. - Same here: the only way in which we will be COMPLETELY freed and delivered from temptation and the evil one, will be on the Last day, by entering his Kingdom, separated from the goats.Then curiosly, in Matthew 24:22 we find "for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened".Now I have 2 QUESTIONS:1) As Christian, would you really be happy if the Second Coming would happen in a month? Or in a week? Or today? Or would you prefer to first do some mundane things and you'd rather prefer Him to come later? (Matthew 22: 1-14, Luke 19:14) 2) Provided that we usually ask for many things never mentioned in the Gospel, and we hope them to be fulfilled, wouldn't it useful to ask for such thing as the Return of the Lord? At least there is some probability that is a correct prayer. If it's not, it wouldn't have hurt to try, but if it is right, it will means enter into the Kingdom of Heaven and be delivered from evil immediately, not only for us but for everyone living now.3) What if the Lord is waiting for people, at least His elects, really wanting and ASKing for His return, to shorten the days? ----------------------------------------------------------NOTETo a possible objection like "if the day will be shortened, some people will not have time to repent" there are at least 2 answers:- Every day new people born in this world full of temptations (Luke 4:6), and there are more people at risk of losing the way, than people who repent. - If someone has the seed of repentance in his earth, it's not to exclude that he will be saved in the last day even if he didn't publicly confessed to be Christian because they haven't met Christ yet. If it wouldn't be like this, then every population who did not hear of Christ in the past and now would be condemned, and this is not the case, because those who pursued good and searched for the Truth would have listened to the Lord and convert if had the occasion (Romans 2:15) (think about people like Socrates), so they will likely be saved anyway.
  9. Matthew 24 "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" It is at the John 14:1-3 "second coming" where "I will come again and RECEIVE you to Myself that WHERE I am there you may be also". Thus the "Dead in Christ rise FIRST" 1 Thess 4 at the "FIRST resurrection" Rev 20:4-5 that occurs at the second coming described in Matthew 24, and John 14:1-3 and Rev 19-20:5 One Bible detail that helps us keep all this straight is to remember that all Bible timelines are contiguous units themselves. So the 70 years of Jeremiah discussed by Daniel in Dan 9:1-6 are all "contiguous years" back-to-back. No inserting "gaps of undefined time length" into the middle of the contiguous 70 year timeline. All bible timelines work that way - including the 70 week (490 year) timeline.
  10. Jesus died nearly 2000 years ago and according to the Bible this was about 4000 years from creation. It also says Jesus will reign for a 1000 years and that a day is like a 1000 years and a 1000 years is like a day. God created the the world in 6 days and rested on the Sabbath and also Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. So as more and more Christian's are becoming convinced that Jesus's return is going to happen soon, could Jesus return on the 6000th year to complete the prophetic week. If so this should be between 2029 to 2033. And the 7 year tribulation could start as early as 2022.
  11. My Post trib position (and the Bible post-trib) is also post-wrath rapture (i.e --2nd coming) -- is clear in this text. Post-trib: Matthew 24 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days... He will send forth His angels to gather His elect" Matt 24 Post wrath: 1 Thess 4 "the dead in Christ rise FIRST" Rev 21 "This is the FIRST resurrection..blessed and holy is he who has part in the FIRST resurrection over THESE the second death has no power" Rev 19 is the 2nd coming - rapture and resurrection of the saints. It is after the 7 last plagues wrath of Rev 16. Keys to Bible prophecy A. All Bible timelines are contiguous -- just like Daniel 9:1-7 points out - with the 70 years of Jeremiah. B. All apocalyptic timelines use day-for-year symbolism just like the Daniel 9 seventy week (490 day) prophecy of Daniel. .So also the 2300 days of Daniel 8, and 1260 days of Daniel 7, and Rev 11, 12,13 C. Later writers use the symbols employed by earlier writers - assuming that the reader is already informed about symbols previously explained. Note: There is another thread on the post-trib position but I failed to notice that it is pre-wrath. So I think I mistakenly posted thinking it was "post-trib and or post-wrath" when it was post-trib and also pre-wrath on that other thread. Which is not my view.
  12. What is "the first resurrection"? Is it when the "dead in Christ rise first"? Is it the resurrection of the "blessed and holy"? the saints? All of them? or just some of them? What is your view? It appears to me that the "dead in Christ rise first" because they are in the "first resurrection" and over these the 2nd death has no power at all. Almost all Christian groups agree that Revelation 19 describes the 2nd coming - and that there were no chapter divisions in the Greek text of Revelation as written by John. Revelation 20 starts off then in the context of Revaltion 19 - at the 2nd coming. (Sorry -- I still don't know how to change the text format to get rid of the double spacing in the Bible quote below) Revelation 20 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, Those included in the "first resurrection" a. Those who were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God b. And those which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands So certainly in the case above - the "First resurrection" includes the saints - possibly "all of the saints" in all of time depending on how far back one finds the "beast" to have had influence and to have persecuted the saints -- since it appears that the second death has power over all who are raised 1000 years later in the second resurrection Here is what Paul says about it... the saints do rise first. 1 Thess 4 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. Your thoughts? in Christ, Bob
  13. “1Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away …. 9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. 11” (Revelation 21:1-4 and 21:9-11, KJV). 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” (1st Corinthians 15:52-54, KJV). I have heard of many descriptions of the city, which is mentioned at Revelation 21:2 and 10, which descends down from God out of heaven, as a literal cubic stone structure of enormous dimensions. But such an understanding is completely mistaken, as related verses (verses 2 and 9), describes this city as the bride, the wife of the lamb, which is an obvious description of the church, albeit, using poetic language. The context is the second coming of Christ, and it is either at this glorious event (or very shortly after it), that the deceased saints of God, who had been ruling and reigning with Christ, as disincarnate spirits (that is as “souls” Revelation 20:4), accompany Christ back to this earth, in order to then receive their now resurrected and glorified bodies (1st Corinthians 15:52-53). This happens at the “last trump” (1st Corinthians 15:52), and when this happens, death itself ends, which prevents the interpretation that this passage is referring to a thousand year earthly Millennial reign upon this earth, at the end of which there will be a war with more death then taking place (1st Corinthians 15:54). So this “last trump” must refer to the second coming of Christ, it is also alluded to at (1st Thessalonians 4:16), where it is associated with “the day of the Lord” (1st Thessalonians 5:2), which can only imply the second coming of Jesus Christ.
  14. I would like other's opinions on something that I have been looking into. Most young Earth believing Christians believe the Earth is just less than 6000 years old and base this belief on the dates listed in the Old Testament and add that to the almost 2000 years since Christ's death. Some Christians go further still and believe Jesus died on the 4000th year which was also the 80th jubilee and because Jesus will reign for 1000 years when He returns, they believe that Jesus will return on the 6000th year, thus fulfilling a 7000 year plan that God is working to. This plan is believed not only by some Christians but also some Jews too. Here are just two examples of this belief that can be found on the internet: http://www.biblebaptistpublications.org/gods7000yearplan.html http://www.hebroots.org/hebrootsarchive/9807/980715_d.html The reason I am taking this seriously is because of finding so many others who are now coming to a similar conclusion, such as this example that can also be found on the internet and as said they are not alone: https://guidetothebible.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/guidechronologylatest1.pdf The question I'm asking is is this just another YK2000 false prophesy that was based on Christ’s birth or is it really God's plan? What do you think? Any further opinions and information would be helpful. Thank you.
  15. Just a couple questions that have been on my mind lately. Should we be looking for the same return or coming of the messiah that the Jews were looking for 2000 years ago? ( I think yes we should by the way ). The Jews were expecting a coming of the Messiah 2000 years ago. Why shouldn't we as Christians be looking for the same coming now that they were then? They were looking for the Messiah to come and establish His Kingdom. To which there would never be an end. When the end times and the rapture are discussed it is usually about us christians going to heaven and the sweet by and by. Very rarely do I hear of the coming return of Jesus ( the coming return of the Messiah) in regards to his establishing his literal kingdom on earth. Does someone's understanding of the Kingdom of God and it's establishment on earth in Jerusalem by Jesus effect peoples end times and rapture beliefs? It just seems to me, that we should be looking for the same thing now that they were then. But instead it's like there has been a replacement of purpose, from Israel and God focused to Church and God focused. Is there not a proper understanding that mergers both ? Why is it either one or the other? Anyone who takes the time to answer all these questions ( I know it's a lot) you have my thanks.
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