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Why is the church divided by denominations? Posted by Omegaman 2.0 on the September 4th, 2007 Why are there so many denominations? Why is the church divided? I see these questions occasionally in chat. They are good questions. It is a question Christians have, especially new believers trying to choose their first church. It is a question non-believers have too. For them, it is evidence that Christians cannot even agree on what the Bible says. Truthfully, they are right. In the chatroom, we see this frequently. We have debates over doctrines and understandings, thankfully most of it is good natured, though often passionate. It is also stimulating intellectually, it drives people to the pages of scripture to see what the bible does indeed say about things, so, these differences can have a positive effect. Imagine if we all agreed! Would that necessarily guarantee we were correct, or could we all agree on the same misunderstandings? Jude 1:17-19 But you, beloved, ought to remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ, 18 that they were saying to you, “In the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own ungodly lusts.” 19 These are the ones who cause divisions, worldly-minded, devoid of the Spirit. Notice that in the passage above, divisions are not a good thing. Notice though, that Jude says that these people who cause divisions, are mockers who follow their unGodly lusts, and do not have the Spirit. These people, if we were to follow after them, would lead us away from the things of God. If you separate from your brethren to hang instead with your buddies at a bar, that is real division, not to be compared with denominations at all. 1 Cor 11:18-20 18 For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and in part, I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you. In the above passage, Paul speaks of another kind of division. This one is also not a denominational division, he is addressing division among those gathered together at one place. The passage has a negative feel to it, as though Paul is disapproving of it. You see that in his statement “and in part, I believe it”. Then he goes on to say that these factions have to exist! The reason: So you can distinguish between those who are sound in the faith, and those who do not have approval. Again, in this case, division is a good thing, not a bad thing. So, what is a denomination anyway? Look at the following definitions from Mirriam-Webster Dictionary: 3. NAME, DESIGNATION; especially : a general name for a category 4. A religious organization whose congregations are united in their adherence to its beliefs and practices. Didn’t see that one coming did you? Notice that a denomination is a uniting factor, not a dividing factor! There is a running joke between on of the other chat administrators and I, about Calvary Chapels. Calvary Chapels are a group of churches, who are self described as non-denominational. In the definitions above, denomination has to do with the name of something. Calvary Chapels have the name Calvary Chapel - obviously. As far as I know, they are united in their beliefs and practices. Do some CCs sprinkle while others dunk? No. Are there any CCs that teach the Jesus will not return for His church until after the great tribulation? I haven’t heard of one. Are their CC’s that do not believe in the perpetuity of the gifts of the Holy Spirit? I don’t think so. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck. So what is going one here? Why would a group of churches, who are united in belief, practice, and name, claim to be non-denominational? I have a theory. I believe that it is about marketing. Denominationalism, has a bad reputation. It smacks of stodgy old ways, inflexibility, to some, it is judgmental, rigid, organized religion. To be non-denominational, is hip. It sounds like you stand apart. It is similar to what we have in the states politically, when you register as a non partisan. It sounds like you are independent - have your own thoughts and views. It makes you different. Of course, in the real world, you are unique, just like everybody else. We have a church near were I live. It used to be called the First Baptist Church, or something like that (I always wondered where the second Baptist church is, but that is another story). Lately, they took down the familiar name plaque, and put up a very colorful one, now it is called Sonlight Christian Center, or some such thing. Marketing again, I suspect, who wants to hang out with Baptists? Of course, they still are Baptists, but they ‘needed’ a hipper name. So, am I against denominations? Am I against independent churches? Am I against churches that say they non-denominational but are not? I am not against any of those things. Let’s look at another passage: 1 Cor 1:10-1310 Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree, and there be no divisions among you, but you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11 For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12 Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? That is a type of denominationalism that is not good. We do what these people are doing when we start gathering around a personality, like an author of a series of books, a famous preacher, or even the teachings of a great theologian from church history. Paul is pointing out, that there is only one church. All those who have been forgiven their sins through Jesus’ sacrifice, are the one church. It matter not what you call the church, who pastors it, who founded it, where it is, what language they speak, which Bible version they prefer, what worship style they employ, or whether they meet in a beautiful building with hardwoods and stained glass, or an old factory, storefront, or even a home. If Christ is preached and they believe the Bible, I am united with them, not divided from them. How can there not be denominations? When their are different countries and languages, customs and tastes, there will be denominations. When everybody belongs to one denomination, all agreeing, you can be sure that something evil or something wonderful has happened. If Jesus has returned for us, then it is something wonderful, until that day, their will be divisions based on preferences, understandings, languages customs, and sadly, even skin color. When you are a mature Christian, you will recognize the oneness of the church and stop focusing on petty differences. Do you give offerings only at your church? If so, why? Are there not other churches that have needs greater than yours? When Paul traveled in the first century, the offering he gathered were for other churches, those who were able, helped those who were needy. That is unity. Giving of your substance to other brothers and sisters, because you recognize that they are family. I am honored to be a part of Worthychat. Here, we come together from around the world. We are of different denominations, yet here, we are united. Do we squabble? Of course we do, what family doesn’t? Most husbands and wives squabble at times, yet, they remain one flesh, a unity. Differences do not mean you are divided, they just mean there are differences. We are human, God made us as individuals, not clones, celebrate the differences. 1 Cor 12:12-2712 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 And if they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body, which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our unseemly members come to have more abundant seemliness, 24 whereas our seemly members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 that there should be no division in the body, but that the members should have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. I would like to end with one final thought (I could go on and on, but I am feeling merciful tonight). People like to gather with others who are like them, the feel comfortable and part of something. Try to be accommodating in that way toward others, make them feel welcomed. But when you go out to look for a church to be part of, you will be tempted to find one, that suits your tastes and your beliefs. I am all for that, but I would like to caution you to keep things in perspective. Sound doctrine is more important that the style of worship or how nice the facilities are. If you try a new church, give it a chance, attend it three times at least, unless in is plainly scripturally unsound. If you have a personal belief about something, and you want to be around others who share that belief, don’t make it the central thing if it is a peripheral issue or not even a scriptural one, find a church that teaches the Bible, as it is, not with massaged meanings to make it fit what you wish it said. It is O.K. to be uncomfortable too, it can stretch and grow you. O.K., so that was two final thoughts, sue me. Thank you for taking the time out of your busy life to read this, now go into the chatroom and join the one body, your brothers and sisters in Christ. Omegaman

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." You have probably heard that little chant, I've said it when I was a child. However, that is a lie, the Bible says that the power of life and death is in the tongue. Watch what you say today. Tearing The Walls Down One day in a land far away, People were marching around a city that day, Seven days without a sound, God’s word had the people bound, Then the seventh day in unity they did shout, Their faith was strong, they didn’t doubt, And the walls can down, Flattened by God, to the ground, They didn’t bicker, for they were in unity, Bickering wouldn’t have brought the walls down, only if they agree, Why do we fight, Why don’t we hold tight, The word of God is strong, It says right is right, and wrong is wrong, Unity is power, To fight the devil within this hour, The devil is winning when we can’t agree, So when will we open out blinded eyes so we can see, I remember when people joint together, Joining hands in love, one to another, Instead of ripping each other apart, Joining hands is the way we should start, The little girls dreams are dashed to the ground, Because of fighting in the home, throwing vain words around, Those vain words of strife, Are destroying her life, Why do we have to fight? Why do we always have to be right? When the Christians can’t agree, What in the church is the world supposed to see? By His Spirit God can’t move, When there’s strife, Gods power He can’t prove, Why do we our brothers and sisters attack? Why do we talk behind there back? In the church we murder one another, Killing our own sisters and brothers, Are you ready to wash one another’s feet? Be careful of what you say, so your words you won’t have to eat, My friend, give each other a loving hug has I close this poem, And you will be blessed by Jesus, when He takes you home.

today i was given a copy of the daily word by someone and i checked to see who they are and couldn't really find anything out about them. what i need to know is are they at all connected to the NAR movement. its just that the word unity has set off alarm bells for me. just need to check things out before i go on with them. many thanks for your replies

Hi everyone! I shared this on another forum, but would like to get more input here. This is a poll/thread for my fellow Protestant/Evangelicals. Some of you have no doubt seen this video or heard about it as it is a few years old, but I am still interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter. (Since I cannot share the video in the post, here is the link to it: "Bishop Tony Palmer and Pope Francis - The Miracle of Unity has Begun: KCM Minister's Conference 2014") Ecumenism is by no means going away, so I think this issue is something we must all honestly consider. I know it can be quite controversial, hence the reason it is posted in the section of the forums. First of all, if you aren't familiar with the video I am referencing, please take the time to watch it, in its entirety before responding to this thread. I would like this to be a productive discussion/debate, so it's important that we are all on the same page and know what issues are being presented. ***First, let me be clear: this video is not posted out of any disrespect for BishopTony Palmer, who passed away about six months after his presentation at the KCM Minister's Conference, shown in this video. My aim is simply to address the claims he makes during the talk he gave during this conference. Nor is it the within the scope of this thread to address any issues with Kenneth Copeland, Word of Faith, the Charismatic Movement or the “Prosperity Gospel.” I am well aware of these issues, but they are not the purpose of this thread. The Anglican church, is, likewise, not the subject of this thread.*** In his talk at the KCM Minister's Conference that took place from January 21-23 2014 (shown in the video above) Anglican Bishop, Tony Palmer presented his ecumenical stance regarding Evangelicalism, Protestantism and Catholicism. Though not a Catholic himself, Bishop Palmer, who had a longstanding friendship with Pope Francis, prior to him becoming Pope, had personally met with him and recorded a video message to share with all the Evangelical leaders present at this conference. (The video above is from his official YouTube channel, it was published on February 28, 2014 and contains the description: “This is the Full un-cut Video of my Presentation and Delivery of both mine and Pope Francis' message to the international Evangelical Leaders at the KCM Minister's Conference, 21-23 Jan, 2014 Fort Worth, Texas, USA. 'The Miracle of Unity has Begun') In his talk during the conference, Bishop Palmer clearly presented his ecumenical beliefs, and he shared the video message from Pope Francis as well. The major point of both Bishop Palmer's message and that of Pope Francis is unity between Catholics and Evangelicals. This call for unity between Evangelicals and the Catholic Church is, of course, not in any way something that originated with Bishop Palmer or Pope Francis. This call for unity (ecumenism) has been ongoing for some time. (In May of 1994, for example, the historic document, titled “Evangelicals and Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the Third Millennium”, was signed by many notable Catholics and Evangelicals who agreed thereby to enter into official partnership with one another, claiming that there were no longer any serious differences between Catholicism and Evangelicalism and that they were doing the will of Christ by truly uniting in Him). This message was echoed by Bishop Palmer and Pope Francis during the KCM Minister's Conference in January of 2014. During his presentation at this 2014 conference, Bishop Palmer made statements, such as: “And this is history that we've got a Pope who recognizes us as brothers and sisters, speaks to us as brothers and sisters and has sent a message to us...” “I believe that God has brought me here, to this year's Minister's Conference, in the spirit of Elijah.” (pauses) “Let me explain. If you look carefully, the spirit of Elijah was on John the Baptist, to turn the hearts of the sons to the fathers. And to turn the hearts of the fathers to the sons. To prepare the way for the Lord. And we know that prophecy always has a double fulfillment. And we know that Elijah will come before the second coming as well. And I've understood that the spirit of Elijah is the spirit of reconciliation. To return hearts to each other.” “If you're born again...raise your hand if you're born again. You're a Catholic.” (audience laughs) “Take back, redeem, what belongs to you. We are Catholics!” “I've come to understand that diversity is divine. It's division that's diabolic.” “The glory that the Father had, He gave to Jesus. The glory was the presence of God. What is the Charismatic renewal? It's when we experience the presence of God. And He said, 'and I give them the glory', pragmatic reason, so that they may be one. It's the glory that glues us together, not the doctrines.” “If you accept that Christ is living in me, and the presence of God is in me, and the presence of God is in you, that's all we need. Because God will sort out all our doctrines when we get upstairs.” “Division destroys our credibility. It is fear that keeps us separated, because fear is false evidence appearing real, it's an acronym. F E A R, false evidence appearing real. Because most of your fear is based on propaganda.” “Luther believed that we were saved by grace through faith....alone. Amen. But that's not it. The Catholic Church believed that we were saved by works. And that was their protest. In 1999, they wrote this together, [referring to the official agreement between the Catholic Church and the Lutheran church, signed in 1999] because in the Protestant church we got a lot of cheap salvations. People were getting born again but no fruit whatsoever. And because we didn't even look for fruits, it wasn't the issue, cause it wasn't necessary for salvation. And no it's not, but it's a good judge if you are saved. So what these two churches did, they put the two definitions together. Listen to it. I'm reading verbatim from the Catholic Vatican website. Justification means that Christ Himself is our righteousness. In which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we, Catholics and Protestants, (Lutherans), believe and confess that by grace alone in faith in Christ's saving works and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God, and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.” (audience applause) “This brought an end to the protest of Luther.” (pause) “Brothers and sisters, Luther's protest is over. Is yours?" “So, the protest has been over for fifteen years. And I get a bit cheeky here, cause I challenge my protestant pastor friends, if there is no more protest, how can there be a protestant church? (pause) “Maybe now we're all Catholics again. But we are reformed. We're Catholic in the universal sense. We're not protesting the doctrine of salvation by the Catholic Church anymore. We now preach the same Gospel. We now preach you are saved by grace through faith, alone. The word 'alone' was the argument for 500 years. The word 'alone' is there, you can read it yourself. The protest is over.” (pause) “The protest is over.” “We need to throw as much resources and energy into the ministry of reconciliation as we do to the ministry of evangelization. Or are we building walls without foundations?” Here are some questions I think Evangelicals and Protestants must honestly ask themselves, however, before deciding whether or not Bishop Palmer is correct in regard to the assertions he made at this conference. Is it actually true that Evangelicals and Catholics can have real unity if official Catholic doctrine and tradition have not changed? Are there truly no serious differences in faith and doctrine between Catholicism and Evangelicalism? (Or Protestantism) Is the “protest” really over, as Bishop Palmer suggests? Are we actually “all Catholics again” as Bishop Palmer claims we are? Are Evangelicals and Protestants actually in agreement with official Catholic doctrine regarding the Gospel and how one is saved? Does the Catholic Church actually teach “salvation by faith unto good works”, as Bishop Palmer claims? Or are good works still held as a necessary part of salvation in official Catholic doctrine and tradition? Is it true that official Catholic doctrine no longer includes various works as a crucial part of salvation? Also, here is what Pope Francis says, in part, in the video shared at this conference: (Speaking of Catholics and Evangelicals, he says) “We are kind of...permit me to say, separated. Separated because, it's sin that has separated us, all our sins. The misunderstandings throughout history. It has been a long road of sins that well all shared in. Who's to blame? We all share the blame. We have all sinned. There is only one blameless, the Lord. I am nostalgic [yearning] that this separation comes to an end and gives us communion. I am nostalgic [yearning], of that embrace.” “We have a lot of cultural riches, and religious riches. And we have diverse traditions. But we have to encounter one another as Brothers. We must cry together like Joesph did. These tears will unite us. Tears of love.” “And let's pray to the Lord that He unites us all. Come on, we are Brothers. Let's give each other a spiritual hug and let God complete the work that He has begun. And this is a miracle; the miracle of unity has begun.” And here are some more questions I think we should ask ourselves as Protestants and Evangelicals: Is Pope Francis correct? Is it “sin" that has separated us? (Catholics and Evangelicals) Was the Reformation, therefore, simply a “misunderstanding"? Were all the thousands who died rather than submit to the Catholic Church, the Papacy and it's doctrines and tradition guilty of sin and misunderstanding as well? Should Evangelicals and Protestants be willing to come back into unity with the Catholic Church? Why or why not? Please share your thoughts (respectfully and constructively). I will post some further thoughts of my own soon. God bless

The Subjections taught in the bible is concerned with being subject to the Authorities established by God. The Problems facing us in our day are do to men living (outside)-the Authority of God. True service is initiated by God.,When man serves under Gods authority,he is thereby accepted. Many consider themselves obedient to God while actually knowing nothing of being subject to Gods delegated authority . He who is truly obedient will find Gods authority I every circumstance ,in the home,and in other situations. After we have meet (Gods) authority,we will realize how much ,we have sinned against GOD. Note)-Those who know not God and Christ know neither authority nor obedience . Christ is the principle of obedience. He who accepts Christ accepts the principles of obedience . A person who is filled with Christ must be one who is also filled with obedience. May God be merciful to those who claim they know authority when obedience is yet missing in their lives.....Amen Heb, 5:8)-Christ "learned obedience through what He suffered. Those who are obedient will experience the ubundance of Salvation. Acts 5:32)-And we are witneses of these things,and so is the Holy Spirit ,whom God have givin to them that obey Him. I peter 1:22)- Seeing ye have purified your souls in your obedience to the truth. Acts 22:10)-"What shall I do Lord? He not only believed,he in addition submitted to the LORD .His repentance was caused both by understanding (Grace) and by ( Obedience) by authority .When he was moved by the holy Spirit to see the authority of the gospel ,he addressed JESUS AS LORD God calls us not only to receive HIS LIFE through FAITH ,but also to maintain HIS AUTHORITY through OBEDIENCE. I John 3:1)-We will draw nearer to our Blessed Savior,And Jesus will draw nearer to us and heal us...Amen Blessings,With Gods Grace, 7Dove77

Jude said, "I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints" (v. 3). It's my contention that unless there is a unity of the Holy Spirit among Christians, we cannot live out the full gospel which was with finality (in perfect form, nothing lacking) delivered to the Saints. I find more questions than answers among Christians today, and I can see that it seems difficult for so many Christians to live out New Testament Christianity. Doctrines and fellowship are disjointed or lack unity; there is a common lack of solidarity. Some people don't know what Bible version to use; others don't know what denomination to join; still, others don't understand the basic tenets of the faith; and others don't know where to begin when it comes to matters of spiritual warfare and the fact that there are two kingdoms at war for the souls of people. There is often no real common ground when it comes to where to start when approaching the things of God. I believe that Christianity is 'made' to function correctly only where two or three are gathered in His Name-- i.e. gathered in unity. I believe that to the extent that the unity of the Spirit lacks among Christians, to that extent the Kingdom of God is chained or fettered from making inroads into and thriving in the lives of Christians and unbelievers alike. Before the unity of the Spirit became such a big deal, David said, "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is when brethren dwell together in unity... For there, the Lord commanded the blessing-- even life forevermore" (Ps. 133). I believe that as it was for the prosperity and success of the early Church, so it is for Christianity today: unity in the Spirit is the starting line and the common ground from which all the good will and works of God grow and flourish among Christians and in the Church. I believe that unity is not just a good idea but is good, that it isn't just God's preference but is pleasant to Him. As Christians walk united in the Holy Spirit, God's Kingdom is loosed to manifest in the Church and His will allowed to be done on earth as it was in the early Church and is in Heaven. The faith which was once for all delivered to the Saints was delivered to one Body of believers and was formed to work only when that body is one/united in the Holy Spirit. "Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all who is above all, and through all, and in you all" (Eph. 4:3-6).

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ? There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ. Why aren't we? People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at? Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word. How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love? Where is the Unity? May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all Firestormx Joseph

I firmly believe that today's evangelization is primarily to be held by the youths. Although this responsibility is entrusted to every person, I see the youths can be very effective to evangelize. I feel that as a Church we need to trust more the young people to do evangelisation work, give them the challenge, give them the courage, and send them out to every corner of the world. I have experienced this in my life and spent six years doing evangelization work with ICPE. God gave me the grace to visit different countries and having the opportunity to spread the Gospel. Today I evangelize in a different way!!! I visit different countries through the new website I made on the internet by the name of 'Peace and unity in our lives' with the address as https://sites.google.com/site/peaceinunity/home The aim of this site is to provide inspiration and encouragement for life, and hope that this small contribution of mine will provide an opportunity for people including youths and children around the globe to find courage in their life, by trusting God to be more present in their life. So visit this website and be part of evangelization. Together we can change the World In Unity George Calleja - Malta