Guest 3th9n Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Hi - I'm new to this forum. I'm a Christian and I must say that I am deeply inspired by the overall level of faith and conviction demonstrated by the posters on this site. That being said I have question about prayer that has been weighing on my mind for several weeks now. I have my own ideas on the subject, but I really am curious to see what others who are very strong in their faith feel about this. My question has to do with the South Korean man who was executed today. The man was described by his family as a 'Devout Christian'. Anyone who saw his impassioned plea for mercy on Sunday night had to know that this man wanted more than anything to live. Also, any Christian who saw this man's plea for mercy, had to immediately drop to his or her knees and pray to God to help this man survive this horrific situation. I know I did. My feeling is then, with so many people praying for this man, with this 'devout Christian' so obviously praying to God to be spared, why was he executed? Some people at my church have already told me that it was "God's will". My question then is, if God's will shall be done regardless of what we deeply want and pray for(and I'm not talking about praying for a raise at work, or a new car - I'm talking about healing, protection and being spared death), then why use prayer to ask for things at all? I understand that we use prayer to give thanks, to reaffirm our faith, and to confess our indiscretions, but why use prayer to ask for things if a) God already knows what we desire in our deepest hearts and minds and b) God's will be done anyway, regardless of what we ask for? This is not meant to upset or be a challenge to those of you with faith in any way. I am honestly confused on this subject and am seeking some way to reconcile this in my heart. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Calamity Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 Welcome, 3th9n, to Worthy Boards. I don't know how to answer you. I felt so bad after reading your post, because I didn't realize they had killed him. I know the Bible says a lot about prayer, but sometimes, what we desire isn't His will. I know you've heard that before, but I don't know what else to say at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willow Posted June 22, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 37 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 440 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/12/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/14/1977 Share Posted June 22, 2004 First of all, Welcome to Worthy!! We certainly hope you will stay and chat/post with us. Always good to see and hear from other believers what is on your hearts. As iron sharpens iron we help each other (hopefully )! This is an interesting topic. I talk all the time about it with my mom. She struggles with the same thing. Prayer is used for many things. It isn't simply a vehicle for asking God to move - or confessing sins, or even praising Him. In it's simplest form - it is communication with God. Many people, and myself included, have many times gone to God when the situation is going terrible, or when we need something, or when someone else needs something. There is nothing wrong with that. However, how many times do we stop and listen to God?? Ya - I mean.... "Dear Lord, I just want to praise and bless your name. I want to thank you for being Lord of my life. I praise you for all you do, all you have done, and all you will do. You are great and worthy of my praise. God I ask you to forgive my sinfulness to day when I ...(yelled at mom)...it was wrong. Please forgive me and help me to honour her better. I ask dear Lord that you would touch my friend and help her get the money she needs to fix her car........thank you Lord.......please speak to me..........I await your voice........................................................................... ................................................................." that last pause can last me for an hour.....all day even....... I listen. I stop talking to hear him speak. But - I don't pray just to ask him stuff I pray to talk to him. Let's put this another way...my best friend knows I need a vacation. She knows I was trying to find a place to stay for about 4 days coming up shortly. I just need away - out of my house (I am still at home with mom and dad) for a personal retreat with God where I don't have to talk to anyone if I don't want to. I can just spend it quietly and with God! She is going away during those days as well, and I thought....hey! Maybe I could stay in her cute little apartment while she is gone......what I didn't know is that she was thinking the same thing - but didn't want to offer as she thought I wouldn't want to stay there - it is only 10 minutes from my house and I was planning on leaving town, but I am too broke. I finally said something yesterday and she says to me "Oh I am so glad you asked!!! I wanted to let you know you could, but I didn't think you'd really want to". God is more powerful then that. He knows....the point is - he wants us to ask. Something about your heart shows in your prayers - not only to him, but to yourself. To pray and ask God to move or do something - you have faith! People say - I have no faith for this situation. But you are speaking out into eternity that if there is a God (a nonbeliever), or because God is God ( a believer), please help me/this situation. That - my friend, is a mustard seed of faith. I am sure there were believers who didn't want John the Baptist to be beheaded. I am sure there were those who knew of something about to happen to him and were praying for it not to happen. What a man of God he was!!! And his life was taken because of hatred and a promise from a Dance!!! However, God still manages to use the terrible situations for good. I have no idea how. I am just grateful he mentions that in scripture, and that he is able to do so. I sure couldn't. Besides - we should never second guess God. If praying uses faith, and faith is the currency of the kingdom of Heaven (we are not even saved but thru faith in Jesus), then praying with faith regardless of the outcome, releases God's power in our lives and the lives of others. How do we know we won't get exactly what we are asking for if we never ask? And if we always got without asking......where would be our need for even talking with God?....Thru prayer we can find God's will as well.......remember, in 1 John the martyrs for God were mentioned and how they were killed. Scripture says that the world was not worthy of them. Bless that mans heart who was taken from us........he is in a better place and puts my own Christianity to shame. Bless you, Willow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
refugepsa91 Posted June 22, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 331 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 5,961 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 61 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/25/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2004 :sweating: That is a very hard question to answer....except that maybe these terrorists holding him cannot be moved to mercy because they do not seek it. They are so against everything that we as christians believe in that they cannot feel. If you turn your back on God like they did then you cannot hear His will. Kind of like a free will situation....I truly believe that God did not want them to kill this poor man...but they are so far from Him that it doesnt matter. We will never know whether or not God tried to work on one of the terrorists hearts to let these hostages go...because the sad fact is one of them would never admit it they are in too deep now into deception to crawl out. Its said that many would die...and doesn't it say somewhere that beheading will come again?....wonder if this situation fits? Love and Blessings, Angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Monkey on a typewriter Posted June 22, 2004 Share Posted June 22, 2004 First off, I'm new here too, so hi to everyone. Second, I don't know the answer to your question, but I have a question that focuses on the same idea/issue. If your god knows all, then why are we even on earth. If he knows all of our actions before we do them, then why must we prove it by living it out? If your god knows exactally what we're going to do, then why dosen't he just send up straight to heaven/hell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted June 22, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.44 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted June 22, 2004 To answer that question we need to find out why God put us here in the first place, right? Why do you think that God placed us here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted June 23, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hello 3th9n..Good to have you here. What I have learnt is that we are to pray all the time...like breathing...it is to be a lifestyle...G-d answers prayer. It is not always evident. It is often different to how we anticipated. It sometimes takes persistence. We sometimes need to repent of areas in our lives before we can even expect G-d to bend His ear to our prayers. Sometimes fasting. We know the Church were surprised their prayers were answered on one occasion. ct 12:13 And as Peter knocked at the door of the gate, a damsel came to hearken, named Rhoda. Act 12:14 And when she knew Peter's voice, she opened not the gate for gladness, but ran in, and told how Peter stood before the gate. Act 12:15 And they said unto her, Thou art mad. But she constantly affirmed that it was even so. Then said they, It is his angel. Act 12:16 But Peter continued knocking: and when they had opened the door, and saw him, they were astonished. Act 12:17 But he, beckoning unto them with the hand to hold their peace, declared unto them how the Lord had brought him out of the prison. And he said, Go shew these things unto James, and to the brethren. And he departed, and went into another place. I believe too that when Jesus was under guard and trial...the disciples although scattered were fervently praying for His release..the same with Paul and others who were martyred..it is spiritually natural to uphold those we love and cherish before the L-rd...but this is not a guarantee for their safety...but we know they are in the hands of a loving G-d. We do not know the hearts of people...G-d does..and His ways are past finding out...we must do our part...and believe that G-d will do His part. Sometimes we will never fully understand things until we die. May the L-rd sustain and comfort this dear mans family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted June 23, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hi Monkey...Good to have you with us. As for your question... Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! We have to trust G-d if we can't understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew007 Posted June 23, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 614 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/26/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted June 23, 2004 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.88 Content Count: 43,795 Content Per Day: 6.21 Reputation: 11,243 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted June 23, 2004 Prayer is for us too, not just for us to tell God what we want. In my prayers, that is often when I hear the Holy Spirit telling me about God's will. Of course He knows our needs and wants before we pray, but in the expression of prayer, we draw closer to God. Why did the Korean man die? Only the Lord knows that one. I trust God and His reasons for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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