Renowned Apologist and Atheist Debate 'Does God Exist?'

[UndecidedFrog]

DISCLAIMER: I am not a christian. My opinions are my own. You do not have to accept them if you dislike them.

Dear MorningGlory,

Thank you for your response.

It is what it is....anyway, you don't know what she meant by her comments really, do you?

I don't know what she/he meant by her/his comments. Only Lusankya can tell you what s/he means. I was only providing my perspective and interpretation.

Regards,

UF

[Guest]

"Surely a god would know what evidences would be necessary for me to believe in him. Failing to do that, I will remain an atheist. If God has a reason why he doesn't provide those evidences, then atheism is justified." - R. Finley, Sr.

Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

John 9:41

[HAZARD]

I would like to see a gathering of the most intelligent minds in the world, believers and non-believers working together and using the largest and most powerful computer in the world, or all of them linked together, and having access to all and every resorce they need, want, and require supplied to them, and money unlimited to spend on the project, and taking as long as they deemed necessary, create just one human female egg, a male sperm or as many as necessary, join them and implant these two into a healthy womans uterus and produce a perfect male or female baby human being.

If that was too hard, how about they try, using all the resorces mentioned above create a sentient being of any kind? If thats too hard, how about a humming bird or a whale? I know, maybe a frog sounds easier. Maybe just one "acorn seed." If they could get it right and create one acorn seed I wonder if they planted it in the ground what would happen? Would it grow into a huge OAK TREE?

If sentient life is too hard, maybe they could "BIG BANG" up a galaxy, not, how about a comet, no, what about just one small rock out of absolutly nothing? If they were given an unlimited amount of high explosive maybe they could "BIG BANG" up something useful other than a large hole on the ground?

Lets assume they could create one of the special species of tree that grows in the Amazon jungle that relies totally on one species of leaf cutter ant to survive, and these ants also cannot survive on any tree but this certain species of tree. I wonder which one would they create first in the hope it or they does not die before they can comeup with the goods to create the other? Too hard? Ok. Out of absolutly nothing create a car or a ship or maybe just one huming birds feather and one gorillas tooth.

If they cannot, then I would suggest there must be some higher power that did create these things. Maybe there is a God?

Haz.

[MorningGlory]

I would like to see a gathering of the most intelligent minds in the world, believers and non-believers working together and using the largest and most powerful computer in the world, or all of them linked together, and having access to all and every resorce they need, want, and require supplied to them, and money unlimited to spend on the project, and taking as long as they deemed necessary, create just one human female egg, a male sperm or as many as necessary, join them and implant these two into a healthy womans uterus and produce a perfect male or female baby human being.

If that was too hard, how about they try, using all the resorces mentioned above create a sentient being of any kind? If thats too hard, how about a humming bird or a whale? I know, maybe a frog sounds easier. Maybe just one "acorn seed." If they could create one acorn seed I wonder if they planted it in the ground what happen?

If sentient life is too hard, maybe they could "BIG BANG" up a galaxy, not, how about a comet, no, what about just one small rock out of absolutly nothing? If they were given an unlimited amount of high explosive maybe they could "BIG BANG" up something useful other than a large hole on the ground?

Lets assume they could create one of the special species of tree that grows in the Amazon jungle that relies totally on one species of leaf cutter ant to survive, and these ants also cannot survive on any tree but this certain species of tree. I wonder which one would they create first in the hope it or they does not die before they can comeup with the goods to create the other? Too hard? Ok. Out of absolutly nothing create a car or a ship or maybe just one huming birds feather and one gorillas tooth.

If they cannot, then I would suggest there must be some higher power that did create these things. Maybe there is a God?

Haz.

Hmmm....hard to argue with that reasoning. I'm sure our resident atheists will though.

[Fez]

I would like to see a gathering of the most intelligent minds in the world, believers and non-believers working together and using the largest and most powerful computer in the world, or all of them linked together, and having access to all and every resorce they need, want, and require supplied to them, and money unlimited to spend on the project, and taking as long as they deemed necessary, create just one human female egg, a male sperm or as many as necessary, join them and implant these two into a healthy womans uterus and produce a perfect male or female baby human being.

If that was too hard, how about they try, using all the resorces mentioned above create a sentient being of any kind? If thats too hard, how about a humming bird or a whale? I know, maybe a frog sounds easier. Maybe just one "acorn seed." If they could get it right and create one acorn seed I wonder if they planted it in the ground what would happen? Would it grow into a huge OAK TREE?

If sentient life is too hard, maybe they could "BIG BANG" up a galaxy, not, how about a comet, no, what about just one small rock out of absolutly nothing? If they were given an unlimited amount of high explosive maybe they could "BIG BANG" up something useful other than a large hole on the ground?

Lets assume they could create one of the special species of tree that grows in the Amazon jungle that relies totally on one species of leaf cutter ant to survive, and these ants also cannot survive on any tree but this certain species of tree. I wonder which one would they create first in the hope it or they does not die before they can comeup with the goods to create the other? Too hard? Ok. Out of absolutly nothing create a car or a ship or maybe just one huming birds feather and one gorillas tooth.

If they cannot, then I would suggest there must be some higher power that did create these things. Maybe there is a God?

Haz.

This is the "God of the gaps" fallacy, it is essentially an argument from ignorance.

Not only is it ineffectual, it also harms your position in the long run. If you try to fill the gaps in our understanding with God, then as our understanding grows your God seems smaller and less necessary.

One step too far can make all the difference from falling off the cliff,or just marveling at the view

[HAZARD]

Negative_cool wrote.

"This is the "God of the gaps" fallacy, it is essentially an argument from ignorance."

.

That is your typical, "I cant answer your question so I will call it an ignorant one."

As for the gaps, I dont see any. Can you enlighten me and tell me which gaps you are refering to? After the BIG BANG, evolution having progressed to the point where we have all things mentioned in my first post in place I ask science to create the things mentioned. Surely having survived many thousands of years of evolutionary selection and survival of the fittest man having reached the pinical of advanced science and construction could conjur up something alive and breathing using all of the worlds resorces and finances?

Seeing you are super intelligent in having discovered my ignorance, I ask, What God is the God of gaps you refer to? Is it the one I said may exist or is it the one you believe does not exist?

Even forgetting the gaps, How do you think the BIG BANG occured out of absolutly nothing which formed the physical material universe as we know it way back in time? This is the ultimate something out of nothing question I would like an answer to.

Haz.

[Fez]

Negative_cool wrote.

"This is the "God of the gaps" fallacy, it is essentially an argument from ignorance."

.

That is your typical, "I cant answer your question so I will call it an ignorant one."

As for the gaps, I dont see any. Can you enlighten me and tell me which gaps you are refering to? After the BIG BANG, evolution having progressed to the point where we have all things mentioned in my first post in place I ask science to create the things mentioned. Surely having survived many thousands of years of evolutionary selection and survival of the fittest man having reached the pinical of advanced science and construction could conjur up something alive and breathing using all of the worlds resorces and finances?

Seeing you are super intelligent in having discovered my ignorance, I ask, What God is the God of gaps you refer to? Is it the one I said may exist or is it the one you believe does not exist?

Even forgetting the gaps, How do you think the BIG BANG occured out of absolutly nothing which formed the physical material universe as we know it way back in time? This is the ultimate something out of nothing question I would like an answer to.

Haz.

Haz, don't think he can answer you, if you check his status it is now "banned"

Blessings

[HAZARD]

Hi Fez.

"Haz, don't think he can answer you, if you check his status it is now "banned"

Blessings"

.

Oh, ok, I didn't know. I wonder why, is it permanant?

Haz.

[Hawkins]

Truth is evidence-independent. Truth itself exists as a truth. Evidence are actually pieces of information allowing a human brain (or rather human belief system) to belief that if it is a truth of not.

Your brain hits a truth when what's inside your belief system matches what the truth itself is. Yet that 'match' is hardly measurable. That is, one can hardly 100% sure what's inside our brain actually matches what the truth itself is. That's why the Matrix advocate.

Science is abit special. Science is the discovery of natural rules. And natural rules can predict. They predict precisely for a human brain/belief system to reckon them as the truth.

Empirical evidence actually means something which can fool the brains/belief systems of a certain mass of humans.

Each human brain/belief system is unique. Thus something is evident to someone may not be evident enough to another.

God gives tailored evidence to those individuals who have faith in Him. Thus the theists' (at least some of them) belief is based on both faith and evidence. While the atheists' belief is based on the absence of evidence.

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence - Einstein.

Now the atheists' belief is based a fallacy.

[mikerunk]

The funny part is that Atheist want to use logic and Science to say that God does not exist, yet what they don't seem to understand is that the science and logic that they cling to so dearly was created by God. The other thing is the universe and all life it self is evidence of Gods existence in it self. Here is how, if I were to put a cake down and said this cake made it self, that no man nor machine made it an Atheist would laugh at my face and say I'm nuts, and they would be right. In order for that cake to be made it would have had to have an intelligent hand bring all the ingredients together at the right time and in the right way for that cake to be made. Thus is the same with the universe and all life, the universe started out very much the same way but in order for the universe and life to come about something had to have have brought it together and guided it along the way, it couldn't just create it self, that would be just plain silly.

Now the bible talks about creation in Genesis but it never gives a blow by blow account for how God went about it. There several reason for this, the first it didn't matter how God did it, what mattered was that he did. The second reason is that even if he had documented it there is no way we would understand it even with all the knowledge we now have. Third reason giving humanity that knowledge would be dangerous, we only need to look at are world as it is now to see the kind of damage we could have done with that vast amount of knowledge. This is the reason why I believe there isn't a more detailed account of creation. However at the end of the day Science and Logic are Gods creation.

I believe in my heart that we can find proof of Gods existence in one of two ways, one through just looking at the universe around use. The other is by looking at our own lives, God shows use time and time again not only proof of his existence but how much he loves use and wants to work in our lives. My belief is that greatest proof comes from our own person lives because that is how he touches use the most deeply. However to see this we must open our minds, hearts and soul to God and everything around use.

That is my take on this subject. All I know is I feel sorry for any one who doesn't believe in God because they have no idea how much God loves them or even how great and awesome he truly is.