Men and Women in GOD's image?

[kross]

Thank you all for very kind and good posts (minus some of the usual)

It will always be a little up in the air I think. The post from Genesis is a good point, if you think that the writer is saying the same thing three times in a row. Or, it may be that the writer has stated the fact that GOD made "man" in HIS own image twice (which is normal in Hebrew writng to make emphasis) before bringing in that GOD made both men and women.

Still, I love women I mean, I love all of GOD's created humans.

[nebula]

There are two "floating" ribs and one connected to the cervical spine.

There are 12 thoracic vertebrae.

One pair of ribs is attached to each throacic vertebra.

There are 7 pairs of True ribs (cartilage attached directly to the sternum), and 5 pairs of False ribs - 3 pairs of these have cartilage that attaches to caritlage rather than the sternum, and the other two pairs are the floating ribs (no cartilage).

That is a total of 12 pairs (2 + 3 = 5 pairs of false ribs. 5 + 7 = 12 pairs).

In order for someone to have 13 pairs of ribs, that person has to have a 13th thoracic vertebra - because the cervical and lumbar vertebrae are not designed for rib articulation.

[kross]

There are two "floating" ribs and one connected to the cervical spine.

There are 12 thoracic vertebrae.

One pair of ribs is attached to each throacic vertebra.

There are 7 pairs of True ribs (cartilage attached directly to the sternum), and 5 pairs of False ribs - 3 pairs of these have cartilage that attaches to caritlage rather than the sternum, and the other two pairs are the floating ribs (no cartilage).

That is a total of 12 pairs (2 + 3 = 5 pairs of false ribs. 5 + 7 = 12 pairs).

In order for someone to have 13 pairs of ribs, that person has to have a 13th thoracic vertebra - because the cervical and lumbar vertebrae are not designed for rib articulation.

This really isn't that important. (but, if it is to you... )

[nebula]

I'm an Anatomy & Physiology lab instructor.

Of course it is!!

[Ovedya]

There are two "floating" ribs and one connected to the cervical spine.

There are 12 thoracic vertebrae.

One pair of ribs is attached to each throacic vertebra.

There are 7 pairs of True ribs (cartilage attached directly to the sternum), and 5 pairs of False ribs - 3 pairs of these have cartilage that attaches to caritlage rather than the sternum, and the other two pairs are the floating ribs (no cartilage).

That is a total of 12 pairs (2 + 3 = 5 pairs of false ribs. 5 + 7 = 12 pairs).

In order for someone to have 13 pairs of ribs, that person has to have a 13th thoracic vertebra - because the cervical and lumbar vertebrae are not designed for rib articulation.

Some people have a supernumerary rib connected to C7. It is a cause of condition known as thoracic outlet syndrome.

[Gauntlet]

oh this discussion is so intense... i love it. i agree with Fraught that God isn't male or female... i don't think God has a physical body that even remotely resembles our own.

I wanted to address this point specifically. Since JESUS came to the earth as the embodinent of GOD, HE does have a body. Yes, GOD is spirit. Yet, HE is spoken of as HE in every single place HE is spoken of. This may be written off as a matter of convenience of language, but the Bible still is the Bible and I for one am not willing to say that something written in it is not true because it can be written off as a matter of convenience.

To my mind, GOD has established HIMSELF as male. Good enough for me.

And me.

I could care less what feminist groups might have to say about that.

[Murse32]

You do not have to agree or disagree with the following, This was taken from something I had in my "favorites" from doubter.net. Not that everything on this site is a good thing, but I like this one (even though I may not agree with EVERYTHING).

What does it mean to say we're

in God's image? Does it mean

even now God is a flesh and blood

being like ourselves complete with

race, color, sexual gender, and

the like?

To answer that question, we should

first define what we mean by God:

Most would agree by "God" we mean

nothing less than the all-creative,

all-present power behind the entire

universe. St. Anselm once stated

that if you could think of a term

greater than the one you just used,

you have not truly spoken about

God.

Think about it...

Moreover many passages in the Bible

consider it idolatry to portray any

image of God. For, especially in

Judaism (also Islam), God is too

sacred and beyond description to be

portrayed in images.

Such idolatry was especially

emphasized by Isaiah, who asks:

When God sees within the circle

of the earth nations as fine

dust - to whom we can liken God?

(Isaiah 40: 15-18) For truly God

will share no glory with images.

(Isaiah 42:8) So verily any images

of God created by man are

falsehoods. (Isaiah 44:17-20)

Less known to Christians, The New

Testament comdemns such idolatry as

well. Surprisingly, even after the

Christ appeared John:1:8 stated human

eyes have never seen God! 1 John 5:21

agains warns us to guard ourselves

against idols...

This leaves us with two puzzles: What

about Genesis' passages about God

creating us in his own image? Also,

how can Christians reconcile Jesus as

part of God coming into the world in

human form? Let's start with Genesis.

IN GENESIS - WHAT WAS GOD'S IMAGE?

Biblical scholars find two stories

of Adam & Eve's creation in Genesis.

So Let's take them one at a time:

Genesis 1; 26-28 states: "Let us

make man( or ha-adam, from the earth)

in our image, according to our

likeness... So God created man in his

own image, male and female he created

them..." Two factors stand out here:

(1) Here God created male and female

together, giving neither first

choice as far as it was said.

(2) God also used the term "us" and

"in our image" in those passages.

No sole image of a male God is

implied here.

Could this plural God imply the

Trinity? Perhaps it could to

Christians. However, the passage

was written by Hebrews who believe

in no Trinity. However, unbeknown

to many, underlying the Hebrew

traditions a feminine side of God

can be revealed.

For instance, the Holy Spirit

in Hebrew ("Ruah") is actually

a feminime term. Also, in the

Kabbalah and other Jewish

literature God has a feminine

counterpart,"Shekhina".Wisdom

or "Sophia" was also thought

God's counterpart in the

beginning. (See "The Hebrew

Goddess" in this site.)

Overall, the Hebrew tradition

unwittingly implies God cannot

be viewed as just male alone.

Realizing

God's feminine side now makes

perfect sense of God's dual

image in Genesis 1: 26-28.

Then what of the second creation

story in Genesis 2? Genesis 2:

21-22 has Eve created from Adam's

rib. How can that not contradict

the earlier depiction of Adam &

Eve created together in the image

of a dual-faced God? The answer

lies in the very next verses

(23-25) giving the second version

its meaning, and a moral lesson

that renders the rib story more

of a parable:

"Therefore, a man shall leave his

father and mother and be cleaved to

his wife, and they shall be of one

flesh." In other words, the verses

signify man and wife should be

joined to one another and be of the

same flesh even more so than thier

former kin.

So apparently God's image encompasses

at least both male and female (as well

as much more). As it appears: just as

God's facets are united as one, the

male and female of our species are to

also cleave together (in marriage) as

one as well. So, let us never commit

the idolatry of putting human limits

on God....

THE CHRIST IN GOD'S IMAGE?

Now, what of Jesus coming into the

world in the form of a male human

being? Does that imply the

universal Godhead of all the

heavens is even today a flesh and

blood super-human man floating

about up there? And how does

Christ's appearance on earth

reconcile with John 1:18 stating

no human eyes have ever seen God ?

For one thing, if God is all-

powerful and all-creative, then

incarnation in any earthly image

would be possible. The fact is

that if he were a woman at that

time, the Jews and most Pagans

would not take heed of Jesus

teachings. Only a man's teachings

would be taken seriously at that

place in time.

But beyond Jesus' death on this

invisible dot in the universe ,

what form could the second person

of a cosmic Trinity take now?

First of all, we can view the

Trinity as "persons" at least as

it works in and through persons

themselves.

But from a cosmic perspective -

wherein even our entire galaxy is

but a speck - the "Father" could

be nothing less than the incredible

Law-giver of the entire universe,

and God's Spirit its creative Power.

From that universal perspedtive the

Christ then must represent nothing

less than the resurrection and new

creation permeating all of infinity

and eternity. And this answers the

question of why John claimed no one

has ever saw God, even after Jesus

arrived here:

For John (1:1-14) also spoke of the

Christ as the Logos before he became

flesh - who was with God and was God,

and through whom all things came to

be. He was the light the darkness

could not overcome.

And in Clolssians 1:15-17 Paul

states: "In the Christ God created

all things in the heavens and on the

earth,everything visible and

invisible.Before anything created

Christ was."

Again, we should not put limits on

what the Christ represents in the

Godhead.

(Conclusion below)

CONCLUSION:

From the universal perspective

above, we must look beyond the

immediate creation and salvation

of humanity. There we would

find the totality of the Godhead

must transcend far beyond human

traits like flesh, race, or

sexulal gender alone. Therefore,

we can be created in no physical

image of God.

We are instead created in God's

Spiritual image.

Now it's time to ask: What can

God's Spiritual image mean in our

lives?

Being created in God's Spiritual

image means we are created in an

image able to transcend fleshly

limitations... an image able to

become reborn into something more

than naked apes on this earth,,,

an image able to embrace more than

just our finite selves alone... an

image bestowing moral

responsibility to us all....

Perhaps few can live up to this

divine, spiritual image. However,

all cultures have their teachings

and their covenants. And for

Christains a savior appeared once

in human form to create the human

example and the way...

Let's take our closing Thoughts from

Glations 3:28: "There is neither Jew

nor Greek; there is neither slave nor

free; there is neither male nor

female: For you are all one in God..."

[Gauntlet]

[nebula]

Some people have a supernumerary rib connected to C7. It is a cause of condition known as thoracic outlet syndrome.

Oh!

Well why didn't you say so in the first place?

[Murse32]

Some people have a supernumerary rib connected to C7. It is a cause of condition known as thoracic outlet syndrome.

Oh!

Well why didn't you say so in the first place?

Though I have "heard" one in twenty people have an extra rib...this is just hearsay. But ahhh, yes! CRS (Cervical Rib Syndrome), have read about that. Usually though, it is bilateral, so If I am not mistaken, this would be an extra "pair" opposed to an extra "rib". But I am by no means an expert and have never rub across this in my practice.

Wait, why are we talking about this?!?! LOL

Sorry, people start talking medically and I have to jump in.

Edited May 1, 2009 by Murse32