Mental Illness

[Deepblue]

i would contend that all mental illness comes from satan. john 10:10 says that Jesus has come to give us abundant life. before that, though, He says that the thief (satan) comes to steal, kill, and destroy. there is no disclaimer in that verse about people with mental illness. can you say that someone suffering from depression or anxiety or schizophrenia has an abundant life? no. they can't. we all have problems in this life. Jesus never promised us a life free of problems. He did, however, promise us peace. how can we say that a mental illness that brings anything but peace can be a "natural" part of living in this world? that would make a lie of Jesus words in John.

i know that Down's syndrome and mental retardation are classified in the DSM as mental disorders, but i disagree that they truly are mental illness (it has more to do with politics than it does reality). these people can still have an abundant life, and they can have peace. those with other classification in the DSM, such as depression and anxiety, cannot.

i'm not saying that we should throw a Bible at anyone with depression. i think much harm has been done by people who think the Bible is all we need to counsel people who have mental or emotional problems. what i am saying is that i think we often neglect the spiritual problem with such people. sometimes the chemicals in the brain are messed up and yes, medication is necessary. but so often we throw a pill at a problem hoping it will go away, when what we really need is for the person to look at what he/she is hanging on to. is it anger? is it unforgiveness? is it lust? is it selfishness? when people are hanging onto this, no medication in the world will solve their problem. they need confession. will that automatically solve their problem? no. thoughts need to be retrained. the Bible talks a great deal about the thoughts we should think and the things we should believe. why? because they are important--to that abundant life Jesus promised us.

i believe that this "enlightened" church has done away, in thought, with the power satan has against and in us. alcoholism is a "disease". mental illness is a "disease". "it's not my fault." therefore we do not get at the root of where the problem lies. satan disappears, just like he did for the people in Matt 7:22--in thy name haven't we cast out devils.... pop a pill, then you won't take care of the root of sin in your life. you think you're doing good, but you're actually playing into the devil's hand if you don't get rid of the root of the problem.

Don't forget autism, which is found a lot of the time when children are toddlers, and even very young children are diagnosed with mental illness such as Bi-polar. I agree that some people are in bondage due to un-confessed sin or due to sin's consequences. I disagree that someone with a mental illness can not have any peace. I have had the peace of God even when in the midst of my battles. If someone can have peace with cancer, then someone with bi-polar can also experience it. Remember that mental illness is also a physical problem such as flu is. The difference is it effects the brain. Would you encourage someone to take medicine for flu? Why not medicine for their chemical imbalance? Well, you did say that sometimes meds are needed for it, but then again you still don't think mental illness is a disease or illness....I'm a little confused by that?

[Deepblue]

I believe that mental illness is exactly what it is.....mental illness. Now I also believe that the enemy can take advantage of someone's mental illness, just as God can find ways to use it for His glory. As someone who has struggled with major mood swings, obsessiveness, and chemically imbalanced depression, I don't think that ALL mental illness is caused by demonic opression or possession. What about all of the young helpless children with mental disabilities? Are they demonically opressed or depressed? I have spoken with some Christians who think that ALL mental illness in ALL cases means there is a spiritual problem. I disagree wholeheartedly. It's an illness just as the flu is an illness. It's still physical! What do you think?

Mental illness is no different from cancer or heart disease or any other illness so I would agree with you and probably go farther. If mental illness is caused by Satan than so is cancer. Now in the larger context ALL disease and physical death itself was and is caused by Adams fall through the temptation of Satan, so in that respect yes the common human maladies on this earth are caused by Satan, including mental illnesses.

mental illness is very much different from cancer and heart disease. with cancer and heart disease, it doesn't matter much what thoughts are going through your mind. with mental illness, it matters a great deal what thoughts are going through your mind. if mental illness were no different from cancer or heart disease, therapy would do no good. you can talk to a person who has cancer all you want, but that won't change their disease, will it. talk therapy with a person who has a mental illness has done a lot to change their condition. how can you say they are no different?

It's still a physical problem. We don't discourage cancer patients not to get chemo-therapy if needed. There are a lot of things that go into treated cancer and heart disease, just as there are many things, such as therapy that go into treating mental illness. I don't see a difference really....not when we are talking about true mental illness, which is different than being bondage of sin.

[Guest TheChief]

Sorry, had to reply to this one...

i would contend that all mental illness comes from satan. john 10:10 says that Jesus has come to give us abundant life. before that, though, He says that the thief (satan) comes to steal, kill, and destroy. there is no disclaimer in that verse about people with mental illness. can you say that someone suffering from depression or anxiety or schizophrenia has an abundant life?

Romans 5:12 tells us that "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Nowhere does the word tell us that Satan was the instigator of death and disease; it is the natural outgrowth of our sin nature. Satan has nothing to do with this beyond the temptation of Eve - it was Eve, then Adam who disobeyed and brought down condemnation to mankind.

A Commentary on John 10:10 reads, "Literally, that they may have abundance, or that which abounds. The word denotes that which is not absolutely essential to life, but which is superadded to make life happy. They shall not merely have life - simple, bare existence - but they shall have all those superadded things which are needful to make that life eminently blessed and happy. It would be vast mercy to keep men merely from annihilation or hell; but Jesus will give them eternal joy, peace, the society of the blessed, and all those exalted means of felicity which are prepared for them in the world of glory" (Albert Barnes). Do we all see this abundance as you do? Ask many of the saints with severe handicaps who willingly and joyfully serve the Lord, including those with mental illness. Remember, Paul himself had a "thorn in the flesh " which, while it probably wasn't a mental illness, was sufficient to interfere with his ministry. What does the Bible tell us? "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

Lets take it further with this verse from Philippians: "Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." (4:11)

Jesus never promised us a life free of problems. He did, however, promise us peace. how can we say that a mental illness that brings anything but peace can be a "natural" part of living in this world? that would make a lie of Jesus words in John.

You are correct, He never did promise us a rose garden. We live in a fallen world, and any "peace" that anyone can garner, mentally ill or otherwise, comes from above. The "natural" world is a world of sin, and, for now, it is the world we temporarily reside in. Seeing as we are here, we are subject to the same illnesses and problems as anyone else is - belief in Jesus as Lord and Saviour is not a guarantee of a long, happy, healthy, trouble-free life. It IS, however, a guarantee of great things to come, regardless of the current state of our mental health. I can be seriously ill, yet have "...peace with God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 5:1) because I know that, while I may suffer for a little while, it is insignificant when compared to what awaits me.

i know that Down's syndrome and mental retardation are classified in the DSM as mental disorders, but i disagree that they truly are mental illness (it has more to do with politics than it does reality). these people can still have an abundant life, and they can have peace. those with other classification in the DSM, such as depression and anxiety, cannot.

You base this off of the DSM-IV, I am assuming. While commendable, I wonder why you base your conclusion on what appears to be "spiritual peace" on a secular psychiatric manual. Here it appears you are marginalizing the power of the Holy Spirit to act as He sees fit in the life of the believer. A believer who relies upon the guidance of the Holy Spirit and who has faith in the sovereignity of our Lord will be at peace regardless of circumstances (see above).

what i am saying is that i think we often neglect the spiritual problem with such people. sometimes the chemicals in the brain are messed up and yes, medication is necessary. but so often we throw a pill at a problem hoping it will go away, when what we really need is for the person to look at what he/she is hanging on to. is it anger? is it unforgiveness? is it lust? is it selfishness? when people are hanging onto this, no medication in the world will solve their problem. they need confession. will that automatically solve their problem? no. thoughts need to be retrained. the Bible talks a great deal about the thoughts we should think and the things we should believe. why? because they are important--to that abundant life Jesus promised us.

Down here, when a pastoral caregiver has a believing client that requires referral for a possible mental illness, the first thing done is to have a complete physical examination performed to eliminate strictly physical disorders. Afterwards, the client meets with a Christian therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist to "get to the root" of the matter. As DeepBlue mentioned previously, a lot of people tend to point the finger at Satan, or at generational curses, or at unrepented sin (which is what you have just done). Wanting to play the "blame game" is popular; ofttimes it is an effort to expunge guilt on an individuals part. But what if there IS no blame to be had? What if the disease is simply something that has come about as a result of our existing in an imperfect world? Job had it far worse than we can imagine, yet from what we can read he maintained his composure and "...arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, and said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." (Job 1:20, 21) As we read through the book, we see his friends (even his wife!) wanting Job to admit he sinned or that he did something that deserved his "sentence." But Job maintained his countenance, and was rewarded for his patience. The crux of Job was that, even as his world was falling down around him, he trusted that the Sovereign God of Creation knew what He was doing!

i believe that this "enlightened" church has done away, in thought, with the power satan has against and in us. alcoholism is a "disease". mental illness is a "disease". "it's not my fault." therefore we do not get at the root of where the problem lies. satan disappears, just like he did for the people in Matt 7:22--in thy name haven't we cast out devils.... pop a pill, then you won't take care of the root of sin in your life. you think you're doing good, but you're actually playing into the devil's hand if you don't get rid of the root of the problem.

The Daily Study Bible comments on this verse: "There was many a charlatan who rendered a lip service to Jesus Christ, and who used his name to produce wonderful effects on demon-possessed people. What Jesus is saying is that if any man uses his name on false pretenses, the day of reckoning will come. His real motives will be exposed, and he will be banished from the presence of God." This is hardly "popping a pill," and, while these individuals may have had sin issues that needed to be dealt with, the verse in no wise implies that a person with an organic mental illness has sin as it's root.

For the record, I am classified as "severely mentally Ill," and was "put out to pasture" permanently by both Social Security as well as the Veteran's Adminstration. I have been so classified for about 3 decades, have prayed that God's will be done in my illness, and have His peace regardless of whether or not I am healed on this side of eternity. I happily serve a risen Saviour as a pastoral caregiver, in sickness OR in health! So it is not as if I am on the outside looking in...

[mead]

Sorry, had to reply to this one...

i would contend that all mental illness comes from satan. john 10:10 says that Jesus has come to give us abundant life. before that, though, He says that the thief (satan) comes to steal, kill, and destroy. there is no disclaimer in that verse about people with mental illness. can you say that someone suffering from depression or anxiety or schizophrenia has an abundant life?

Romans 5:12 tells us that "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" Nowhere does the word tell us that Satan was the instigator of death and disease; it is the natural outgrowth of our sin nature. Satan has nothing to do with this beyond the temptation of Eve - it was Eve, then Adam who disobeyed and brought down condemnation to mankind.

A Commentary on John 10:10 reads, "Literally, that they may have abundance, or that which abounds. The word denotes that which is not absolutely essential to life, but which is superadded to make life happy. They shall not merely have life - simple, bare existence - but they shall have all those superadded things which are needful to make that life eminently blessed and happy. It would be vast mercy to keep men merely from annihilation or hell; but Jesus will give them eternal joy, peace, the society of the blessed, and all those exalted means of felicity which are prepared for them in the world of glory" (Albert Barnes). Do we all see this abundance as you do? Ask many of the saints with severe handicaps who willingly and joyfully serve the Lord, including those with mental illness. Remember, Paul himself had a "thorn in the flesh " which, while it probably wasn't a mental illness, was sufficient to interfere with his ministry. What does the Bible tell us? "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.[/]" (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).

Lets take it further with this verse from Philippians: "Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content." (4:11)

Jesus never promised us a life free of problems. He did, however, promise us peace. how can we say that a mental illness that brings anything but peace can be a "natural" part of living in this world? that would make a lie of Jesus words in John.

You are correct, He never did promise us a rose garden. We live in a fallen world, and any "peace" that anyone can garner, mentally ill or otherwise, comes from above. The "natural" world is a world of sin, and, for now, it it the world we temporarily reside in. Seeing as we are here, we are subject to the same illnesses and problems as anyone else is - belief in Jesus as Lord and Saviour is not a guarantee of a long, happy, healthy, trouble-free life. It IS, however, a guarantee of great things to come, regardless of the current state of our mental health. I can be seriously ill, yet have "...peace with God through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 5:1) because I know that, while I may suffer for a little while, it is insignificant when compared to what awaits me.

i know that Down's syndrome and mental retardation are classified in the DSM as mental disorders, but i disagree that they truly are mental illness (it has more to do with politics than it does reality). these people can still have an abundant life, and they can have peace. those with other classification in the DSM, such as depression and anxiety, cannot.

You base this off of the DSM-IV, I am assuming. While commendable, I wonder why you base your conclusion on what appears to be "spiritual peace" on a secular psychiatric manual. Here it appears you are marginalizing the power of the Holy Spirit to act as He sees fit in the life of the believer. A believer who relies upon the guidance of the Holy Spirit and who has faith in the sovereignity of our Lord will be at peace regardless of circumstances (see above).

what i am saying is that i think we often neglect the spiritual problem with such people. sometimes the chemicals in the brain are messed up and yes, medication is necessary. but so often we throw a pill at a problem hoping it will go away, when what we really need is for the person to look at what he/she is hanging on to. is it anger? is it unforgiveness? is it lust? is it selfishness? when people are hanging onto this, no medication in the world will solve their problem. they need confession. will that automatically solve their problem? no. thoughts need to be retrained. the Bible talks a great deal about the thoughts we should think and the things we should believe. why? because they are important--to that abundant life Jesus promised us.

Down here, when a pastoral caregiver has a believing client that requires referral for a possible mental illness, the first thing done is to have a complete physical examination performed to eliminate strictly physical disorders. Afterwards, the client meets with a Christian therapist, psychologist, or psychiatrist to "get to the root" of the matter. As DeepBlue mentioned previously, a lot of people tend to point the finger at Satan, or at generational curses, or at unrepented sin (which is what you have just done). Wanting to play the "blame game" is popular; ofttimes it is an effort to expunge guilt on an individuals part. But what if there IS no blame to be had? What if the disease is simply something that has come about as a result of our existing in an imperfect world? Job had it far worse than we can imagine, yet from what we can read he maintained his composure and "...arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, and said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." (Job 1:20, 21) As we read through the book, we see his friends (even his wife!) wanting Job to admit he sinned or that he did something that deserved his "sentence." But Job maintained his countenance, and was rewarded for his patience. The crux of Job was that, even as his world was falling down around him, he trusted that the Sovereign God of Creation knew what He was doing!

i believe that this "enlightened" church has done away, in thought, with the power satan has against and in us. alcoholism is a "disease". mental illness is a "disease". "it's not my fault." therefore we do not get at the root of where the problem lies. satan disappears, just like he did for the people in Matt 7:22--in thy name haven't we cast out devils.... pop a pill, then you won't take care of the root of sin in your life. you think you're doing good, but you're actually playing into the devil's hand if you don't get rid of the root of the problem.

The Daily Study Bible comments on this verse: "There was many a charlatan who rendered a lip service to Jesus Christ, and who used his name to produce wonderful effects on demon-possessed people. What Jesus is saying is that if any man uses his name on false pretenses, the day of reckoning will come. His real motives will be exposed, and he will be banished from the presence of God." This is hardly "popping a pill," and, while these individuals may have had sin issues that needed to be dealt with, the verse in no wise implies that a person with an organic mental illness has sin as it's root.

For the record, I am classified as "severely mentally Ill," and was "put out to pasture" permanently by both Social Security as well as the Veteran's Adminstration. I have been so classified for about 3 decades, have prayed that God's will be done in my illness, and have His peace regardless of whether or not I am healed on this side of eternity. I happily serve a risen Saviour as a pastoral caregiver, in sickness OR in health! So it is not as if I am on the outside looking in...

Nice brother...very nice.

[Gauntlet]

Mental illness is something that Satan can use and exploit to his own end. It's a human weakness, a way forSatan to get his cloven-hoofed foot in the door. I don't think all mental illness is demonic in nature. Nor do I view illness in general as being demonic in nature. That's medieval thinking. In the year 2009 we're WAY past trepanning rituals and the application of leeches. Give science credit where credit is due.

[Guest TheChief]

not all "mental illness" is a physical problem. can you cite me studies that say the chemical imbalance comes before the emotional problems? it's a chicken or the egg problem. does bad thinking come from a chemical imbalance or does a chemical imbalance come from bad thinking? science cannot tell us. cancer, on the other hand, has nothing to do with thinking!

Hmmmmm...if your doctor believes you have Bipolar, and you are given a script for Haldol, Lithium, or Depakote/Depakene, and you take it as directed, and your symptoms go into remission, what caused the remission? Did your thoughts change? Or is it possible that the lacking serotonin receptors (which are believed to be one cause) are being replaced, aiding in mood stability?

As far as studies, you can start your research with the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill (www.nami.org/), the National Institute for Mental Health (www.nimh.nih.gov/), Georgetown University Hospital (www.georgetownuniversityhospital.org/body.cfm?id=512), Mayo Clinic (www.mayoclinic.org/psychiatry-rst/ ), Johns Hopkins (www.hopkinsmedicine.org/bipolar/ ). There are more you can research, but you get the idea.

You have a home computer (obviously). What happens to it's CPU if it overheats, or one of the boards has a short circuit, or if you have a power surge? It cannot perform it's function properly! There is a cause and an effect - I didn't cause it to burn out, the manufacturer didn't cause it to fail, the salesman at Best Buy didn't cause it to malfunction - it was an imperfect machine and it failed! Why assign blame?

as far as children go: no child should be diagnosed with bipolar. and add or adhd is much too often diagnosed. there is also such a thing as a generational curse. it's biblical and it's real. still all of satan. i will not go to the "all ills come from the fall" stance. i believe he has direct access to our ills--if we let him.

Bipolar is best diagnosed in early adulthood, as it is known as "The Great Imitator," as it often "imitates" a variety of childhood syndromes. While I agree that ADD and ADHD are too often diagnosed, the jury is still out as to the exact nature and prevalence of either.

Concerning "generational curses" - what about "generational blessings?" Seems only fair that if curses yould be handed out across generations, blessings would, as well.

i too, have suffered depression. and i too, have experienced peace in this midst of it. but it wasn't, by far, the abundant life Jesus promised. if depression was an all-encompassing, full-time thing, few people would survive it. i don't think the abundant life Jesus talked about was an occasional peace, but a life-expanding peace. if i'm miserable 80% of the time, i would not call that abundant life.

Aren't you looking short-term? Part of untreated Bipolar can be crushing depressions (depending on severity) that I could never have survived without relying on His strength to get me through. "Being miserable" has a lot to do with your own focus - once I am stabilized I have the choice to "wallow in my misery," or to get out of the mud and allow the Shepherd to put me to use, regardless of my physical (or mental) issues. I can still take joy in my Saviour amidst a turbulent life. Joyfully serving Him to the best of my ability is abundant life in Him!

the thing is, no other disease deals with our thoughts the way mental illness does.

Try a long-term, painful, draining, terminal illness, like brain or liver or pancreatic cancer, or what of those who sit by faithfully as they watch their loved ones wither away.

look up the number of times our thoughts are mentioned in the Bible. it may surprise you. i don't think the rampent number of "mental illnesses" in today's society surprised God, though. do you think that's maybe why God talks so much about our thinking in the Bible?

The root word for "thought" is mentioned 81 times in the Bible, while the root for "peace" is mentioned 429. So it appears He speaks even more about "peace" than "thought."

Thought - aw-mar' - A primitive root; to say (used with great latitude): - answer, appoint, avouch, bid, boast self, call, certify, challenge, charge, + (at the, give) command (ment), commune, consider, declare, demand, X desire, determine, X expressly, X indeed, X intend, name, X plainly, promise, publish, report, require, say, speak (against, of), X still, X suppose, talk, tell, term, X that is, X think, use [speech], utter, X verily, X yet.

Peace - shaw-lam' -

From a primitive root; to be safe (in mind, body or estate); figuratively to be (causatively make) completed; by implication to be friendly; by extension to reciprocate (in various applications): - make amends, (make an) end, finish, full, give again, make good, (re-) pay (again), (make) (to) (be at) peace (-able), that is perfect, perform, (make) prosper (-ous), recompense, render, requite, make restitution, restore, reward, X surely.

In my opinion, God understands the "rampant number" of mental illnesses exists due to the rampant sin throughout the world. Until He returns to claim His own, it will only get worse, I am afraid...

[Bryanfromiowa]

As someone who suffers from depression. I say that its a physical illness for sure , and i may offend someone with this but i find it ridiculous for someone to tell me that I'm demon possessed. History is filled with instances where a disease that is not understood is attributed to demonic possession, witchcraft or other super natural causes and this is no different. Having said that i would agree that the enemy can use mental illness against us. In my own case for instance depression led to alcoholism/ drunkenness and me living in a very sinful nature for several years.

[Deepblue]

God bless you Chief.

[Deepblue]

Chief brought Job up to prove that the things we go through are not always caused by sin or something we did wrong. God allowed all this to happen to Job and he hadn't sinned, even though his friends were urging him to repent. We also see where the Lord is upset with them because what they were saying was not true.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Deepblue

[georgedrw81]

Some years ago a country closed all but a few institutions.The mentally ill mingled with the society.All of them got involved with God and the church.Support was also available for any medical reason.The results speak for themselves.When the mentally ill are among us in society and are treated with love,the love of God

then the symptons dissappear or minimised

Blessings