OneLight Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2009 While I do believe in OSAS, I also believe that many many people believe themselves to be saved and are not. They have been given a false sense of security by a magic prayer and are not walking in the way that God has asked them to walk. People who intentionally sin, relying on OSAS, are on very very shaky ground, because their actions can demonstrate that they indeed are not saved and never were. We all sin (and sin intentionally) but sin should not have a control over us. We should be dead to it, and alive to Christ. For this reason I would never rely on OSAS when talking to someone who is considering suicide. I am not judging their salvation, because it is not my place, but I don't think it is wise to give an assurance of salvation to someone who is considering an intentional sin. 1 John 2 (NASB) 3(G)By this we know that we have come to (H)know Him, if we (I)keep His commandments. 4The one who says, "(J)I have come to (K)know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a (L)liar, and (M)the truth is not in him; 5but whoever (N)keeps His word, in him the (O)love of God has truly been perfected (P)By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he (Q)abides in Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.90 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2009 At the same time, isn't it a HUGE issue if the Church is teaching Once Saved Not Always Saved? Isn't this Biblical heresy? Jami, we could be wrong in our interpretation of scripture. What I think is the great heresy in the church is that it gives people a false sense of assurance. Ear tickling, as One said. There are so many people who think they are saved who are not. They do not walk in His ways. I think some people say the "sinners prayer" and then cling to OSAS. This I believe is a huge error. The hardest people to convince to turn and repent are those who are unsaved but believe they are saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.90 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2009 I agree Andy and the problem I am having with people teaching "Once Saved, Not Always Saved" is that it teaches that works are required for Eternal Security by itself. This causes new believers to run in fear thinking daily. "Oh my God, if I lie, I will not be Saved anymore. If I steal, I will lose my Salvation." and the doubts and fears grow and grow to the point of being in despair. This kind of teaching leads people to want to commit suicide. I know because I was one of them once. Like you, I believe Faith without works is dead because the Bible teaches us that. Like you, I don't condone sin and I believe that if one is TRULY saved, they will naturally want to repent, confess, ask for forgiveness and live right in obedience to God's commands. But, the Bible doesn't say Salvation without works is dead. It says Faith without works is dead. Hmm... but faith without works is DEAD. Faith is required for salvation, is it not? We must have works in our life to demonstrate the continued work of the Holy Spirit. A complete lack of works in a person's life indicates a lack of change brought about by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Yes. I agree but works don't determine our eternal security nonetheless. We both agree on that. Works don't save us, but they indicate that we have the saving faith that does save us. If I had no works, I would be deeply concerned about my eternal security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.90 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2009 While I do believe in OSAS, I also believe that many many people believe themselves to be saved and are not. They have been given a false sense of security by a magic prayer and are not walking in the way that God has asked them to walk. People who intentionally sin, relying on OSAS, are on very very shaky ground, because their actions can demonstrate that they indeed are not saved and never were. We all sin (and sin intentionally) but sin should not have a control over us. We should be dead to it, and alive to Christ. For this reason I would never rely on OSAS when talking to someone who is considering suicide. I am not judging their salvation, because it is not my place, but I don't think it is wise to give an assurance of salvation to someone who is considering an intentional sin. 1 John 2 (NASB) 3(G)By this we know that we have come to (H)know Him, if we (I)keep His commandments. 4The one who says, "(J)I have come to (K)know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a (L)liar, and (M)the truth is not in him; 5but whoever (N)keeps His word, in him the (O)love of God has truly been perfected (P)By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he (Q)abides in Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm going to make my appeal again. If someone is asking you about whether or not you will go to Heaven if you commit suicide - you better find out whether or not they are struggling with this issue. Someone struggling with suicide does not need a theological debate. When I was struggling with suicide, the Lord gave me a vision of Himself - not a theological answer. Consider this: a person is struggling with suicide and asks you this question. Let's say you convince him that he'll go to Hell if he kills himself. Have you saved him? He's still mincemeat to suicide for the enemy. You haven't ministered to his hurt, his need, his struggle. You haven't spoken to his heart. You've left him suffering and struggling with the spirit of death hanging over his head (that spirit of death is like a parasite that saps your energy and clouds your judgment). Is this the ministry of Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2009 While I do believe in OSAS, I also believe that many many people believe themselves to be saved and are not. They have been given a false sense of security by a magic prayer and are not walking in the way that God has asked them to walk. People who intentionally sin, relying on OSAS, are on very very shaky ground, because their actions can demonstrate that they indeed are not saved and never were. We all sin (and sin intentionally) but sin should not have a control over us. We should be dead to it, and alive to Christ. For this reason I would never rely on OSAS when talking to someone who is considering suicide. I am not judging their salvation, because it is not my place, but I don't think it is wise to give an assurance of salvation to someone who is considering an intentional sin. 1 John 2 (NASB) 3(G)By this we know that we have come to (H)know Him, if we (I)keep His commandments. 4The one who says, "(J)I have come to (K)know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a (L)liar, and (M)the truth is not in him; 5but whoever (N)keeps His word, in him the (O)love of God has truly been perfected (P)By this we know that we are in Him: 6the one who says he (Q)abides in Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 864 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/22/1954 Share Posted September 7, 2009 me either Hebrews 10:26 # 26. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 86 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 864 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/22/1954 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted September 7, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 7, 2009 I share your concerns and have requested that this thread be split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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