can salvation be lost?

[desi2007]

Salvation~

Philippians 2:12

12...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Psalm 27

The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? The Lord is my strength of my life..

Hebrew 6:10-

10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints and do minister.

11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the End.

Backsliding~

Jeremiah 3:22

22 Return you backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings.

Indeed we do come to You, For You are the Lord our God.

23 Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills and from the multitude of mountains. Truly, in the Lord our God Is the salvation of Israel.

24 For the shame has devoured the labor of our fathers from our youth--Their flocks and their herds. Their sons and daughters, we lie down in our shame.

25 We lie down in our shame For we have sinned against the Lord our God.

[Guest LadyC]

there ya go. there is healing for the backslider. there is NO reconciliation for the apostate. keep studying, you'll find it.

[desi2007]

there ya go. there is healing for the backslider. there is NO reconciliation for the apostate. keep studying, you'll find it.

One can lose their salvation just the same as backsliding. If a person doesn't stay in the word ..God's word can be forgotten.

[desi2007]

no, i don't believe you can lose your salvation.

john 14 says we cannot be taken from God's hand.

ephesians 4 says we are sealed (in the book of esther, not even king ahasuerus himself could rescind an order that had been sealed by him).

john 3:16 if we can lose everlasting life it wasn't everlasting life to begin with.

then there's the whole concept of what salvation is in the first place. to quote casting crowns: "not because of who i am, but because of what you've done. not because of what i've done, but because of who you are"

I believe you can lose your salvation just by walking away ...

Christan's who are living in sin, have fallen away from

the Lord. These precious believers still have a chance to

make things right with Jesus and reunite with the Lord.

It is the Lords will that none perish and all come to know the knowledge of the truth and stay connected to the vine.

[OnetrueGod]

but backsliding and forfeiting salvation are two very different things.

oops, i said i wasn't gonna get involved further in this discussion.... someone give me a swift kick in the booty and get me out of here!

How in the world do you say they are two different things?

As I recall, we study in the word of God to stay connected and have a relationship with God, so if we lose our "salvation" or "christians backslide"--its the same, they both deal with staying connected with God.

desi

I certainly hope they are two different things. While not believing the OSAS doctrine, I do not believe that simply backsliding and having weak moments is the instant loss of salvation. All of us have weak moments when our lives are not exhibiting the life that Jesus wants from us (for me...everyday!) Sometimes I'm become discouraged and those around me would wonder if I'm even a Christian. In fact, even the great faithful Apostle Paul struggled with this...

Romans 7:18-20

18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do

[Chiquita]

i understand... i was raised OSAS too, and then God changed my perceptions about it, through scripture and personal experience. and i must say, i feel a strong sense of security in my salvation now, that i never had when i believed OSAS. that may sound backwards, but it's not... because when i thought once saved always saved, everytime i repeated the same mistakes for the millionth times, i kept praying asking for salvation again, for the millionth time, afraid that i hadn't truly been saved in the first place.

Glad to hear I wasnt the only one making the same mistake a million times! thats comforting!!! LOL

In my experience, I accept Jesus as my personal savior and the spiritual warfare was on! I went through some awful things and backslide so far that I turned my back on God. I know for a fact that had I died during that time as I was dabbling with the occult, I would most certainly have gone to hell. But the thing is, God protected my life. He did NOT allow for me to die as He knew I would come back as He pulled me towards Him. Now, I too as super secure of my salvation! That was my experience. AMEN!

[OnetrueGod]

no, i don't believe you can lose your salvation.

john 14 says we cannot be taken from God's hand.

ephesians 4 says we are sealed (in the book of esther, not even king ahasuerus himself could rescind an order that had been sealed by him).

john 3:16 if we can lose everlasting life it wasn't everlasting life to begin with.

then there's the whole concept of what salvation is in the first place. to quote casting crowns: "not because of who i am, but because of what you've done. not because of what i've done, but because of who you are"

I would agree with you, for those who keep the faith and strive to live for Christ...no matter how pitiful an attempt it may be, because we all fail...all of us, no matter how "good" we may think we are. It was all Jesus! All Him as to making the sacrifice and being that perfect Son of God. It is all about Jesus.

But apparently... faith is needed. Without that, we fail to accept that which we don't deserve. Apparently even those who once believed and had faith, can lose that... we can "depart" from God, we can be "led away". If we depart from God or are led away from God...surely we are led away from His salvation. If not, why the warning from teh author of Henrews and from Peter?

Hebrews 3:12

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

2 Peter 3:17

You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;

But I do believe that as long as we keep our faith...Christ has already done His part...and God will keep His promise of everlasting life.

[OneLight]

I think the controversy comes from this the more I hear about it...

Christians who believe in OSAS and Christians who don't are actually saying the same thing if you look at it closely. It's just that non-OSAS'ers think the OSAS'ers are saying that Christians can continue to live in sin when they are actually not saying that. And OSAS'ers believe that non-OSAS'ers are saying that TRUE CHRISTIANS can lose their Salvation, which they are actually not saying that. Some rather talk about Grace more than sin. Some rather talk about Heaven more than hell. You say poh tay toh, I say poh tah toh!

If we all just look at what Scripture says about being a Christian and what happens when one is Saved, then we can all agree on who will have Eternal security. We are all saying the same thing in different parts. Therefore, we all believe the same thing, case closed.

I partly agree. Those who believe in OSAS have stated more then once say that those who turn completely from Christ were never saved in the first place. This is where the difference is found. If they were never saved, then OSAS is true. If they were saved, but turned from the truth, then OSAS is false.

Scripture tells us that nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Romans 8:37-39 (New King James Version)

Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This I agree with. If we choose to stay in His will, nothing can remove us. Yet, we also read that there will be a falling away.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (New King James Version)

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

If one is to fall away, then they had to believe in something first.

Scripture also tells us that if a person turns from Christ, he can not be turned back again. This would be complete denial of God or the saving work through Christ.

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New King James Version)

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Yet, if one is found sinning and we can turn them back to the truth, we have saved a soul from hell.

James 5:19-20 (New King James Version)

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.

The difference between those who can not come back to Christ and those who are in sin is in the heart. If someone sins, yet still believes in God, they can be turned from their sin and return to His will. Those who can not be turned back has changed their belief all together, believing that there is no God.

[pokemaughan]

can you lead me to scripture to illustrate this?

I'm more interested to know why people hold to their theology about salvation.

Romans 8:28 through Romans 9 addresses it, I believe...

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, "For your sake we are being killed all the day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. I am speaking the truth in Christ--I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit-- that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring. For this is what the promise said: "About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son." And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls-- she was told, "The older will serve the younger." As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?" But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'" "And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'" And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay." And as Isaiah predicted, "If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah." What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, "Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame."

(Romans 8:28-9:33 ESV)

[Rick-Parker]

You can only lose it if you never had it to begin with. There are a lot of pretenders out there.