OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES VS. ASTRAL PROJECTION

[MESSAGER85]

miraculous powers, can meen anything to anyone. while I see that you are trying to make your argument. I am farily traditional. If you feel it is from God than you should have full faith and confidence and a right mind in doing these things. I can not say Astral projection is sin full, I realy dont no that much about it. I just know that the people who have had experiences in the bible never induced it.

Understandable viewpoint. Its a drive in me to address this issue because out of body experiences are something that i deal with and because of that i have to look at alot things subjectively to make sure there arent any underlying layers of interpertation on such experiences. When i first started having these experiences the christian community shut the door in my face and it was a very hurtful and frustrating time in life to deal with something so huge and have the people who suppose to show you the most compassion and understanding not even hear me out and pretty much shut my experiences out. Now i speak openly about my experiences cuz i have no reason to be ashamed of them biblically or for any other reason.

[MESSAGER85]

I dont know, Christ must be the center you may have some kind of gift. I do know that many churches dwell on these things. I donot think that is good. Mostly from the far left of the charasmatic circle. I am also charasmatic/pentecostal and believe in the workings of the Gigts of the Spirit in todays world. I do know that Astral Projection is not one of them.

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ...

Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous.

Astral Projection is not what miracles are. You are trying to make scripture fit into your experience and not looking at your experiences through scripture.

The NIV is a weak translation. Look at the same scripture in other versions.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New King James Version)

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New American Standard Bible)

Now there are (A)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (King James Version)

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The NIV gives the wrong impression when they say "to another miraculous powers". The power to perform these miracles comes from God and will never go against His word. Do a search on the internet and you will see that only New Age, mystics and occultist use Astral Projection. This is not a gift from God.

I know exactly what type of groups satanist, witches, warlocks, ect. who have used this ability for evil deeds and i believe that that is a major reason for the neg. views on these experiences because of the stigma that has been placed upon the activity based on past participants. 2ndly im not trying to scripturally validate astral projection because i dont astral project i come out of the body for noother reasons than the lord allowing it to transpire. I cant even speak for people who induce spiritual experiences, but im speaking for people who have these occurences involuntarily.

[Believer1997]

what?

[Matthitjah]

I dont know, Christ must be the center you may have some kind of gift. I do know that many churches dwell on these things. I donot think that is good. Mostly from the far left of the charasmatic circle. I am also charasmatic/pentecostal and believe in the workings of the Gigts of the Spirit in todays world. I do know that Astral Projection is not one of them.

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ...

Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous.

Astral Projection is not what miracles are. You are trying to make scripture fit into your experience and not looking at your experiences through scripture.

The NIV is a weak translation. Look at the same scripture in other versions.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New King James Version)

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New American Standard Bible)

Now there are (A)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (King James Version)

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The NIV gives the wrong impression when they say "to another miraculous powers". The power to perform these miracles comes from God and will never go against His word. Do a search on the internet and you will see that only New Age, mystics and occultist use Astral Projection. This is not a gift from God.

I know exactly what type of groups satanist, witches, warlocks, ect. who have used this ability for evil deeds and i believe that that is a major reason for the neg. views on these experiences because of the stigma that has been placed upon the activity based on past participants. 2ndly im not trying to scripturally validate astral projection because i dont astral project i come out of the body for noother reasons than the lord allowing it to transpire. I cant even speak for people who induce spiritual experiences, but im speaking for people who have these occurences involuntarily.

Grace to you,

I think the key words that you are using is involuntarily.

Please explain where in scripture that God works against the will of a man involuntarily.

Peace,

Dave

[MESSAGER85]

I dont know, Christ must be the center you may have some kind of gift. I do know that many churches dwell on these things. I donot think that is good. Mostly from the far left of the charasmatic circle. I am also charasmatic/pentecostal and believe in the workings of the Gigts of the Spirit in todays world. I do know that Astral Projection is not one of them.

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ...

Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous.

Astral Projection is not what miracles are. You are trying to make scripture fit into your experience and not looking at your experiences through scripture.

The NIV is a weak translation. Look at the same scripture in other versions.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New King James Version)

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New American Standard Bible)

Now there are (A)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (King James Version)

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The NIV gives the wrong impression when they say "to another miraculous powers". The power to perform these miracles comes from God and will never go against His word. Do a search on the internet and you will see that only New Age, mystics and occultist use Astral Projection. This is not a gift from God.

I know exactly what type of groups satanist, witches, warlocks, ect. who have used this ability for evil deeds and i believe that that is a major reason for the neg. views on these experiences because of the stigma that has been placed upon the activity based on past participants. 2ndly im not trying to scripturally validate astral projection because i dont astral project i come out of the body for noother reasons than the lord allowing it to transpire. I cant even speak for people who induce spiritual experiences, but im speaking for people who have these occurences involuntarily.

Grace to you,

I think the key words that you are using is involuntarily.

Please explain where in scripture that God works against the will of a man involuntarily.

Peace,

Dave

I personally dont know of any scripture, but this man being I doesnt have a will of myself Ive completly surrendered myself over to christ and only he knows in what way this will be a learning tool for myself and others. In due time the truth of the matter will surface and it will be a UNDENIABLE TRUTH!

[irishcowboy]

Astral projection/out of body experiences generally defined is a seperation of the spiritual body/consciousness into the spiritual dimension including the etheric plane which is the closest to the physical reality in real time. As a christian baptist i've never come across anyone of my faith who has these on-going journeys like myself if they have its only been once or twice.

Ive been having spontaneous out of body experiences since the beginning of the year which

has come through the SLEEP PARALYSIS ive experienced since i was a child. I've been able to walk the earth, visit locations and verify my observations later on and ive been able to visit different spiritual realms. The only difference i can see in my projections and those who induce these experiences which im not sold on is a bad thing, is that my experiences are natural and out of my control. They have brought me closer to God and my walk in Christ. So how many of you would actually have a out of body experience if you could and if you were in my shoes how would you integrate such occurences into your christian worldview?

I have had an out of body twice..... I do not like it, was cool at the time, but I do not like it...... out of body is what I thought it was, but may have only been a dream, not even sure how it happened or why......

as you have said, was verified what was going on .... documented event going on while I was out, and I wrote it down as I came out, it was a couple days later that I was able to verify the ordeal with what I wrote in my journal.....

I do not even know the purpose of those two times.......

mike

[Matthitjah]

I dont know, Christ must be the center you may have some kind of gift. I do know that many churches dwell on these things. I donot think that is good. Mostly from the far left of the charasmatic circle. I am also charasmatic/pentecostal and believe in the workings of the Gigts of the Spirit in todays world. I do know that Astral Projection is not one of them.

1 Cor 12:1-31 (NIV) Now about spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be ignorant... There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit... There are different kinds of working, but the same God works all of them in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ...

Arent we as believers suppose to believe that God can work in many different ways? The word says that god works in mysterious ways, that noway imply's that we are suppose to understand his way but just accept that he works in this way. When the word says like up above that people will work in the miraculous i wouldnt place out of body experiences outside of that, because when i hear the word miraculous i would think things like O.B.E's are displays of the miraculous.

Astral Projection is not what miracles are. You are trying to make scripture fit into your experience and not looking at your experiences through scripture.

The NIV is a weak translation. Look at the same scripture in other versions.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New King James Version)

There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (New American Standard Bible)

Now there are (A)varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 (King James Version)

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The NIV gives the wrong impression when they say "to another miraculous powers". The power to perform these miracles comes from God and will never go against His word. Do a search on the internet and you will see that only New Age, mystics and occultist use Astral Projection. This is not a gift from God.

I know exactly what type of groups satanist, witches, warlocks, ect. who have used this ability for evil deeds and i believe that that is a major reason for the neg. views on these experiences because of the stigma that has been placed upon the activity based on past participants. 2ndly im not trying to scripturally validate astral projection because i dont astral project i come out of the body for noother reasons than the lord allowing it to transpire. I cant even speak for people who induce spiritual experiences, but im speaking for people who have these occurences involuntarily.

Grace to you,

I think the key words that you are using is involuntarily.

Please explain where in scripture that God works against the will of a man involuntarily.

Peace,

Dave

I personally dont know of any scripture, but this man being I doesnt have a will of myself Ive completly surrendered myself over to christ and only he knows in what way this will be a learning tool for myself and others. In due time the truth of the matter will surface and it will be a UNDENIABLE TRUTH!

Grace to you,

An undeniable truth according to whom?

Peace,

Dave

[Fez]

Umm.....I would tend to say if it is not biblical (and I can't see it anywhere), it is probably not a good thing, and I would be praying really hard for an answer.

Blessings

[OneLight]

God never forces anyone to do anything. If I were you, I would be praying that He stops these from happening. Since I have no idea who you are, what your past has been or what you have been involved in, I have no leg to stand on but that God does not operate this way. However, Satan will do all he can to have you accept a lie, thinking it is of God. Look at how he will do this in the very near future as he claims to be god himself, and there will be many who will accept him this way. IF it is not in scripture, you should doubt it is of God right off the bat.

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

I can think of two instances off the top of my head where a Prophet and a Saint of God were swept up in the Spirit and saw prophetic visions. One is in Reveation 4 and the other Ezekial 8. These men were carried away by the Spirit in a vision, however, it is quite clear that they did not leave their bodies nor were they bodily removed.

Could this be what you are describing as a an out of body experience?

Peace,

Dave