Prophetic declaration in a dream I had

[~candice~]

Hi Neb,

In your study about this, have you found any bible passages that help to determine whether your dream was just for you, or for the whole body? It's something I am not quite clear about. If it was from the Lord, how do we tell whether it is just for us or for all?

Blessings,

Andy

[BlindSeeker]

Sister Nebula,

Was there anything else between "Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot, Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast," and The last shall be first, and the first shall be last?"

Is that all that was said, or remembered?

Was there a pause between the two as you listed them, as if there was a break, or change in thought?

That is all I remembered. There was no pause. And I remember feeling slightly startled when I declared, "The last shall be first, and the first shall be last" - like I was thinking to myself, "Oh, that's how it fits!"

I wish I could remember what led up to this point, for I know this was a follow-up to something else that happened, but it is all too fleeting.

Well Sister Nebula, its not often that something sticks with me as much as hearing of your dream. But the last part is the part that I find puzzling . . . because of the context in which Jesus used it and how it is used in the dream.

But my main unshakable feeling is that ""Now is the time that the science will be backwards.Science is now backwards. Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot, Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast,"

is not that the laws of science have been reversed, but that the stewards of these scientific truths have sold out and are willingly twisting them on a massive scale for an evil purpose.

That is why I am interested in other parts of the dreams. I am not saying this is the meaning . . . just that I am really surprised by the impact that hearing your dream has had on me and this is the feeling I am getting.

[nebula]

Had you been reading these verses and perhaps they were stuck in your mind?

I am familiar with the verses, and no I had not read them recently.

The "The last shall be first and the first shall be last" statement has always been a puzzlement to me, though.

[nebula]

In your study about this, have you found any bible passages that help to determine whether your dream was just for you, or for the whole body? It's something I am not quite clear about. If it was from the Lord, how do we tell whether it is just for us or for all?

I have no clue either - sorry!

Interpretation is not a gift I have.

[nebula]

Well Sister Nebula, its not often that something sticks with me as much as hearing of your dream. But the last part is the part that I find puzzling . . . because of the context in which Jesus used it and how it is used in the dream.

Yeah, it kind of struck me, too.

But my main unshakable feeling is that ""Now is the time that the science will be backwards.Science is now backwards. Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot, Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast,"

is not that the laws of science have been reversed, but that the stewards of these scientific truths have sold out and are willingly twisting them on a massive scale for an evil purpose.

In my dream, I had the impression that it was science that would be upheaved and turned on its head.

That is why I am interested in other parts of the dreams. I am not saying this is the meaning . . . just that I am really surprised by the impact that hearing your dream has had on me and this is the feeling I am getting.

Yeah, it's driving me nuts, too, that what happened before the declaration faded away from my memory.

I do know that there was a precurser, but I cannot recall what that was.

But like I said above, interpretation is not a gift I have. I can observe and analyze and put pieces together and find things hidden in the nooks and crannies. But when it comes to figuring out what to do with that information . . . not a clue.

I'm hoping for interpreters in the Body to help, or for confirmations of things the Lord spoke to others.

[nebula]

Deuteronomy 13:1-10 (emphasis added)

If you believe that God reveals Himself through dreams, you are, by default, denying the sufficiency of scripture.

Hey Rufus -

First of all, as I stated in the OP, I am not a prophet, so I am not giving any prophetic claims to this. I do appreciate what the Body has to say about this though, and see if the Lord is revealing anything similar to anyone.

As for the Scripture you quoted, I agree with a post above that your highlights were taken out of context, because the focus was more on those leading the people astray to worship other gods than it was the dreams.

But if the Lord does not speak through dreams, who spoke to Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel and Joseph of Nazareth and the Wise Men? Even Paul was given a "vision of the night" to go to Macedonia.

So I am not understanding your claim that I am denying "the sufficiency of Scripture."

Do you not listen for the voice of the Holy Spirit?

If you believe that God is speaking to you through your dreams, you are advocating progressive revelation. In other words, you are claiming to have a word from God that in fact He has not given you.

"And the Lord said to me: The prophets are prophesying lies in my name; I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds." - Jeremiah 14:14

I respectfully have to disagree with your theology and application of these verses you posted.

"My sheep hear My voice," and stuff like that.

And the examples in Scripture of the Lord using dreams to speak to people, as I posted above.

[nebula]

I appreciate all the thoughts and insights people have posted, and I didn't want to point out anyone's in particular because I've just been soaking the posts in, but if it helps you BlindSeeker, this one most closely matches the impression I had with the declarations:

It certainly reminds one of the verses, "Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" (Isa 5:18-21).

It seems as though there is a connection between your dream and not only the times we are living in, but also the times we soon will be living in. The world is going to be so upside-down that not only will absolute folly be wisdom to most human beings, but logic is going to be considered completely illogical. I think that maybe your dream has to do with total confusion and thick darkness, and it certainly seemed prophetic to me.

[BlindSeeker]

I appreciate all the thoughts and insights people have posted, and I didn't want to point out anyone's in particular because I've just been soaking the posts in, but if it helps you BlindSeeker, this one most closely matches the impression I had with the declarations:

It certainly reminds one of the verses, "Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope: That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it! Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!" (Isa 5:18-21).

It seems as though there is a connection between your dream and not only the times we are living in, but also the times we soon will be living in. The world is going to be so upside-down that not only will absolute folly be wisdom to most human beings, but logic is going to be considered completely illogical. I think that maybe your dream has to do with total confusion and thick darkness, and it certainly seemed prophetic to me.

That is kinda what I meant about the scientist misrepresenting the facts because in their own wisdom they twist it for another purpose. That they are being spiritual manipulated by evil force for the purpose of deceiving and manipulating the masses

[lekh l'kha]

Had you been reading these verses and perhaps they were stuck in your mind?

I am familiar with the verses, and no I had not read them recently.

The "The last shall be first and the first shall be last" statement has always been a puzzlement to me, though.

It puzzled me for most of my Christian years also, and I always ask God to give me insight and understanding of His Word, because I know that insight and understanding of God's Word can't come from me, and in this way what I understand hopefully won't come from my own imagination. But the danger's always there that what I understand about things in the Biible that are difficult to understand could come from my own imagination

Anyway, whether from God, or from my own imagination, a few months ago I suddenly had a "flash of insight" about the last being first, and the first last:

The outer branches of the menorah (the seven-branched candle-stick or lampstand) are the furthest from the centre branch, and yet they are filled with the oil first, because the centre branch is the branch into which the oil (symbolizing the Holy Spirit who is the seal of God) is poured, and the oil drops to the bottom and fills the outer branches frist and only once they are full, do the middle of the three branches (situated on either side of the centre branch) get filled - and only when these middle branches (of the three branches on either side of the centre branches) are full, do the branches closest to the centre branch get filled.

Jesus is in the midst of His churches (Rev.1: 13) - the centre branch by which the other branches are all filled with the Holy Spirit. The Gentile court was the furthest from the Holy of Holies in the temple, and in Jewish thought, the further you were away from the holy of holies, the further you were away from God ("... And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh...", Eph 2:17).

The outer branches (Gentiles?) were the first to be filled with the Holy Spirit, but the inner branches positioned closest to the centre branch (the Jews?) will be filled last - and in the providence and will of God, "the last shall be first, and the first last".

I really think the menorah and the way the branches become filled with oil gives us insight into th meaning of "the last shall be first, and the first last" (but of course, I could be wrong).

BUT if this is what "the last shall be first and the first last" means, then many, if not MOST Gentile believers (who believe that "the church has replaced Israel"), will be totally confused why this should be the case, and to them it will seem like the gospel has been set upside-down - but this will only be because they thermselves have had it upside-down all along, and when the Lord Himself sets it right-way-up, they will think it has been set upside-down.

Perhaps (speculatively speaking) this period will parallel a time in the world when right is wrong and wrong is right, what's logical is illogical, and what is illogical will be logical, etc. Total confusion - even amongst the Gentile Christians - the believers from among "the nations". But "the last will be first, and the first, last".

Lekh.

[Arthur Durnan]

Well, of course, Antichrist (Satan's right-hand man) is on the way, he who'll call right wrong, & wrong right; black white, and white black. He'll perform false miracles to deceive even the very elect of God. Always remember: Satan himself can speak to individuals & lead them vastly astray. In point of fact, one coming day, he'll have the entire world worshipping him! Start with Revelation 13 and continue thru Revelation 17 & 18. Beware the machinations of the Devil!