Prophetic declaration in a dream I had

[7thseal]

I was with a group of people. I have no recollection of who exactly they were, where we were, or what we were doing - just that we were on some type of "adventure."

At one point someone prophetically declared, "Now is the time that the science will be backwards."

I found myself then declaring such as:

"Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot.

Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast."

And ending with:

"The last shall be first, and the first shall be last."

Any thoughts?

And I remember feeling slightly startled when I declared, "The last shall be first, and the first shall be last" - like I was thinking to myself, "Oh, that's how it fits!"

for I know this was a follow-up to something else that happened,

Well I know you work in science which I'm sure requires a lot of hard work, studying and dedication. And from what I read in many of your post I see the same is applied to your knowledge of God's Word and the spiritual realm. I believe the Lord may just be reminding you not to become too bogged down with your work to where it may affect your spiritual life. A lot of what we learn and gain understanding of about both this physical world and our bodies will be reversed once we receive our new bodies and enter into eternity with our Lord Jesus Christ.

We move from persecution into peace, death into life, tribulations into joy and so on. Perhaps the Lord is just reminding you (and me after reading your post) that after the resurrection a lot of what we do and spend time on won't apply to our lives once receiving our glorified bodies....for eternity.

[lekh l'kha]

I just want to try and explain what I meant below a little better, and the N.T scriptures that I think might relate to it:

Had you been reading these verses and perhaps they were stuck in your mind?

I am familiar with the verses, and no I had not read them recently.

The "The last shall be first and the first shall be last" statement has always been a puzzlement to me, though.

It puzzled me for most of my Christian years also, and I always ask God to give me insight and understanding of His Word, because I know that insight and understanding of God's Word can't come from me, and in this way what I understand hopefully won't come from my own imagination. But the danger's always there that what I understand about things in the Biible that are difficult to understand could come from my own imagination

Anyway, whether from God, or from my own imagination, a few months ago I suddenly had a "flash of insight" about the last being first, and the first last:

The outer branches of the menorah (the seven-branched candle-stick or lampstand) are the furthest from the centre branch, and yet they are filled with the oil first, because the centre branch is the branch into which the oil (symbolizing the Holy Spirit who is the seal of God) is poured, and the oil drops to the bottom and fills the outer branches frist and only once they are full, do the middle of the three branches (situated on either side of the centre branch) get filled - and only when these middle branches (of the three branches on either side of the centre branches) are full, do the branches closest to the centre branch get filled.

Jesus is in the midst of His churches (Rev.1: 13) - the centre branch by which the other branches are all filled with the Holy Spirit. The Gentile court was the furthest from the Holy of Holies in the temple, and in Jewish thought, the further you were away from the holy of holies, the further you were away from God ("... And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh...", Eph 2:17).

Jesus said two things to the Jewish leaders:

1. "For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on UNTIL you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord." (Mat 23:39)

2. "Therefore I say to you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation (Greek: ethnos) bringing out its fruits." (Mat 21:43).

The outer branches (Gentiles?) were the first "nation" to receive God's mercy; and Paul told the Gentiles that "peace was preached to them which were afar off, and to them that were nigh...", Eph 2:17).

But Paul ALSO said,

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies (through their unbelief of the gospel) for your (the Gentiles') sakes (UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles be come in): but as touching the election (of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's seed), they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts (grace) and calling (election) of God (of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's seed) are without repentance. For as ye (Gentiles) in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (the Jews') unbelief: Even so have these (Jews) also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may (at the appointed time) obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all (previously the Gentiles, now the Jews) in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" (Rom 11:25-33).

The Jewish nation was always positionally closest in proximity to the Messiah, and the Gentile "nation" ("the nations") "afar off" - but in God's providence, He chose to allow the Gentile "nation" (the outher branches) be the first to receive mercy through faith in the gospel, and the Jews (the inner branches, positionally closest in proximity to the Messiah), last (just as Joseph took a Gentile bride after he rose to the most powerful position of authority in Egypt and was recognized as Lord and the one to whom all had to "bow the knee" by the Gentiles first - anad lastly, by his Israelite brethren also).

But the first shall be last, and the last first.

BUT if this is what "the last shall be first and the first last" means, then many, if not MOST Gentile believers (who believe that "the church has replaced Israel", will be totally confused why this should be the case, and to them it will seem like the gospel has been set upside-down - but this will only be because they thermselves have had it upside-down all along, and when the Lord Himself sets it right-way-up, they will think it has been set upside-down.

Lekh

[AnotherTraveler]

Every miracle is outside of scientific methods and reasoning. This gospel is all about taking God at His word over the "evidence" that appears to disprove it. The vast majority of the science that gains political and social acceptance has functioned as an emeny of scripture for a long time but as the end comes, certainly these divisions will be extremely pointed.

God overthrows the lies, as Jesus overthrew the moneychanger's tables. It is a glorious adventure, but it also is a very real battle. Always the devil has used the altering of meaning to advance the lie. In the Garden of Eden is was..."Has God said....?"

Many very intellegent people are searching in the dark rather than turning on a light and actually seeing how things really are. The last shall be first and the first last is how God does things, inverting our understanding of progression. God sees the end from the beginning, is all powerful, and defys anaylsis with no concern that in doing so He has failed to submit Himself to mankind to be measured.

We are the flour to be sifted, we are the ones to be measured by Him, judged by Him, and that really offends some folks.

No one is delivered by the weapons they possess, but every general wants the weapons, trusting in the weapons of war over what God has said.

We as humans arrive in this age not of our own choosing, but God has planned for the conclusion of the age we live in. We look for truth, He is truth.

God sends dreams unconcerned that controversy rises over just using that method to cause us to think about all this.

Consider Job 33:14-17 God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon his bed. Then He opens the ears of men, and seals their instruction, that He may withdraw man from his purpose and hide pride from man

We are often unconcerned with our being prideful, but God wants us humble.

[traveller]

Every miracle is outside of scientific methods and reasoning. This gospel is all about taking God at His word over the "evidence" that appears to disprove it. The vast majority of the science that gains political and social acceptance has functioned as an emeny of scripture for a long time but as the end comes, certainly these divisions will be extremely pointed.

God overthrows the lies, as Jesus overthrew the moneychanger's tables. It is a glorious adventure, but it also is a very real battle. Always the devil has used the altering of meaning to advance the lie. In the Garden of Eden is was..."Has God said....?"

Many very intellegent people are searching in the dark rather than turning on a light and actually seeing how things really are. The last shall be first and the first last is how God does things, inverting our understanding of progression. God sees the end from the beginning, is all powerful, and defys anaylsis with no concern that in doing so He has failed to submit Himself to mankind to be measured.

We are the flour to be sifted, we are the ones to be measured by Him, judged by Him, and that really offends some folks.

No one is delivered by the weapons they possess, but every general wants the weapons, trusting in the weapons of war over what God has said.

We as humans arrive in this age not of our own choosing, but God has planned for the conclusion of the age we live in. We look for truth, He is truth.

God sends dreams unconcerned that controversy rises over just using that method to cause us to think about all this.

Consider Job 33:14-17 God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon his bed. Then He opens the ears of men, and seals their instruction, that He may withdraw man from his purpose and hide pride from man

We are often unconcerned with our being prideful, but God wants us humble.

Nice post AT. The part bolded reminded me of this

Psa 20:7 Some [trust] in chariots, and some in horses: but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

This is a very interesting thread. Thanks Neb, for sharing this with us.

[Hawkins]

Deuteronomy 13:1-10 (emphasis added)

If you believe that God reveals Himself through dreams, you are, by default, denying the sufficiency of scripture.

Hey Rufus -

First of all, as I stated in the OP, I am not a prophet, so I am not giving any prophetic claims to this. I do appreciate what the Body has to say about this though, and see if the Lord is revealing anything similar to anyone.

As for the Scripture you quoted, I agree with a post above that your highlights were taken out of context, because the focus was more on those leading the people astray to worship other gods than it was the dreams.

But if the Lord does not speak through dreams, who spoke to Nebuchadnezzar and Daniel and Joseph of Nazareth and the Wise Men? Even Paul was given a "vision of the night" to go to Macedonia.

So I am not understanding your claim that I am denying "the sufficiency of Scripture."

Do you not listen for the voice of the Holy Spirit?

No worry. I think that if you don't know the answer yet you suspect that the dream may contain some prophetic meanings, you can post without hesitation.

Acts 2:17

In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

I think that if one of the readers is very sure about what your dream could mean, your dream can be useful to him. He may know what God wants to tell him through your dream. There could be a message there for someone else.

In my study, prophetic dreams may be divided into two halves, one half is in the dream while the other half is in reality. They can combine magically with one another. For example, you dream of a not with some alphabets like "ands", on the other hand you or one of the readers may have a strange paper on hand with some strange characters like "comm". Then the message now may look like "comm" + "ands" = "commands". Perhaps God is comfirming a previous dream (or anything only the messenger will understand) is of His commands.

It is more or less like a two part puzzle with one in dream and the other in reality.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Hawkins

[Openly Curious]

I was with a group of people. I have no recollection of who exactly they were, where we were, or what we were doing - just that we were on some type of "adventure."

At one point someone prophetically declared, "Now is the time that the science will be backwards."

I found myself then declaring such as:

"Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot.

Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast."

And ending with:

"The last shall be first, and the first shall be last."

Any thoughts?

Perhaps the Lord wants to reveal truths to you from Matthew 20:1-16 being "The worker in the vineyard " which contains prophetical knowledge within it and yet it is backward "The last shall be first, and the first shall be last" you'll gain the knowledge from "the worker in the vineyard" by systematic study--hence science

we are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God a workman that needeth not be ashamed.

just thoughts

[nebula]

Perhaps the Lord wants to reveal truths to you from Matthew 20:1-16 being "The worker in the vineyard " which contains prophetical knowledge within it and yet it is backward "The last shall be first, and the first shall be last"

OK, I'll look into that to see if I can see what it is you are seeing.

you'll gain the knowledge from "the worker in the vineyard" by systematic study--hence science

I'm not following you here.

we are told to study to show ourselves approved unto God a workman that needeth not be ashamed.

Yes, I know this.

[nebula]

"For rebellion is no less a sin than divination, and stubbornness is like iniquity and idolatry" - 1st Samuel 15:23

Was Joseph a divinator?

[J Dee]

First let me begin by stating that I am not a prophet, so I am not making any claims about this dream. However, it really struck me what happened.

I was with a group of people. I have no recollection of who exactly they were, where we were, or what we were doing - just that we were on some type of "adventure."

At one point someone prophetically declared, "Now is the time that the science will be backwards."

I found myself then declaring such as:

"Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot.

Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast."

And ending with:

"The last shall be first, and the first shall be last."

Any thoughts?

I believe it is a warning to you in particular and a word to take heed in general.

In your dream you were the one we said the last words - that's is why I believe that this words are meant for you.

I gather that your faith is strong and you feet firmly rooted to the rock?

News are coming (maybe a discovering) that's going to shake the foundations of your faith.

You are warned not to let it overcome you!:

"Now is the time that the science will be backwards."

You confirmed it that you got the message:

"Hot shall be cold, and cold shall be hot.

Fast shall be slow, and slow shall be fast."

And then God left you with peace of mind - truth will prevail (the laughing stock in the eyes of the world will proclaim the truth)

"The last shall be first, and the first shall be last."

Just keep you eyes open, you will know when the lie is attacking.

Strengthen God's people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sheya joie]

"For rebellion is no less a sin than divination, and stubbornness is like iniquity and idolatry" - 1st Samuel 15:23

Was Joseph a divinator?

No. In fact, if you'll recall, his boasting about his dream to his brothers was what got him sold off. The Bible tells us that God forbad divination of which dream interpretation is a small part. The prophet Samuel called it a sin. There are several accounts, most notably in 1 & 2 Kings, about the rulers who attempted to bring Israel back to God by force. Once of the first things they did was to kill without mercy the mediums and wizards who practiced divination.

Just because something has been reported in the Bible to have happened does not make it okay for Christians to do the same. Sometimes a narrative is simply straight reporting. Dancing around the edges of dream interpretation is playing with fire.

Daniel also interpreted dreams; was he an evil person?

The other Joseph was warned by a dream to take Mary and little Jesus and flee away to Egypt, and so he did. He had also been told in a dream to not be afraid to take Mary as his wife; he obeyed that dream also. Was it evil for him to do so?

It is not the dreams nor the interpreting of dreams that is necessarily evil - it is the spirit by which they are interpreted. Nebula is seeking the Lord and Godly counsel in understanding the dream she had. This is proper and not to be called sinful.