Axxman Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Many of them object to the fact that he is still friendly with the "other woman." He maintains that there is no relationship beyond "friends." His family (son and daughter) claim that he is unrepentant, as in 1st Corinthians 5, and refuses to have contact with him because he still talks with her. They refused to contact him on Thanksgiving and Christmas, and he would have spent those times alone had it not been for me and my family. What is in bold, seems to indicate where he made his choice. He wants the best of both worlds. He has made his bed and now doesn't want to sleep in it. Axxman you typed the things in bold and nobody else did. To me those phrases speak volumes. If anyone else on here was in that situation and your kids gave you that ultimatum, What would you choose? Would you choose your kids or the woman? He can't have both and he does not realize it. It will be a rude awakening. What he wanted is a reconciliation in the marriage. What he wanted was to be restored into the flock of Christians that he had literally given everything he had to for 20 years. He knew his role of church leader was over...he didn't ever think that he would be refused a role as a brother...how many fallen brothers and sisters had he restored into the fold? Surely they would forgive him in return. He never figured that the wife and family that he had nurtured and raised his entire life would never forgive him. Both of his estranged children are in marriages spawned by divorce...and he painfully guided them through those experiences. Surely, they would be there in understanding for him. Alas, the favors were not returned. He chose his family...they chose not to forgive. Thats their issue...they can live in their glass houses. Maybe I am not being clear enough that he did truly repent and cast aside the other woman. It was not even a question. It was immediate and in his mind it was final. However, once the divorce was final, and the kids still were angry, and the church showed no intention of ever caring...a friend seemed pretty nice to him I reckon. If thats a sin (which i don't think it is) then shouldn't the church and his unforgiving family share in the culpability for completely abandoning him when he truly needed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Hi Ax.. In the broad sense I would agree the congregation of believers should proclaim the forgiveness of God which this man does have from God. That is part of the role of a congregation if not the main goal of the Gospel. However like others have pointed out, this ongoing "friendship" is a huge problem and may go the heart of his seeming lack of repentance Words are not very meaningful in this context one must look to actions to show what someone really believes. Severing ties means he will never speak to her again or email her or have any contact with her ever again. To stop the adultery the other women must cease to exist in his life forever. Most affairs start as emotional affairs, most affairs start with a friendship between a man and a women. I don't believe married people should ever be friends with someone from the opposite sex in a way that excludes their husband or wife. You can be couple friends, you can be friends with people at work, but being true friends with someone of the opposite sex who is NOT your wife is a big red flag. So if this guy is still friends with this women, he has not in my mind repented at all. But this is from the outside I know these things are very complex and messy. Frankly my bet is he was sleeping with her and still is. Hiya Smalcald...thanks for chiming in. Maybe I have not been clear. He did repent. In my opinion he did everything he should have done. The church and His family did not accept this repentance. His wife never even considered a reconciliation. She told me, over the phone, that she had contacted a divorce lawyer the next day and that while she still loved and cared for him...she could not remain married to him. She spoke to him three times during the divorce..all other contact was via lawyer. On the flip-side he immediately severed all ties with the woman involved. He went immediately to another pastor that he trusted to start receiving spiritual guidance and counseling. He was extremely humbled and took 100% of the blame and felt extreme remorse not only for what had happened but for the fallout that occurred in the church community. There was no forgiveness or restoration. If there had been we wouldn't be having this convo right now. There is just so much hypocrisy from the people involved that it drives me crazy. The fact that he has reconnected (as friends at this point) with this woman is not a sin...and it has no bearing on whether or not he was truly sincere over a year ago when he attempted to reconcile his relationships. BTW...you lose the bet...lol. They were never sleeping together...the ex-wife even told me that. It was an emotional affair and you are so right about the dangers of that. haha, Wow I got that one wrong! I misunderstood I thought the guy was wanting to still be friends with this women and refusing to give that up when this all happened. I don't know I mean an emotional affair is wrong, from the view of Christ it is adultery in the heart, although I am not totally sure about that? Anyway just from what you have said I don't think they should be getting divorced and I think his wife is wrong about pushing that. Sometimes any excuse will do, you know what I mean? On the other hand I don't think he should reconnect with the women, why? I don't think it is a wise choice for him. But regardless I don't understand why the wife is so strong on divorcing? Do they have children? If they do then I really really disagree with her, she is intentionally damaging her kids because she is mad that he he had a flirtation with another women. But yeah he needs to be told by the pastor that he is forgiven which he is and then he can move forward with his life and his families life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhawks1 Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/21/1981 Share Posted January 14, 2010 (edited) Many of them object to the fact that he is still friendly with the "other woman." He maintains that there is no relationship beyond "friends." His family (son and daughter) claim that he is unrepentant, as in 1st Corinthians 5, and refuses to have contact with him because he still talks with her. They refused to contact him on Thanksgiving and Christmas, and he would have spent those times alone had it not been for me and my family. What is in bold, seems to indicate where he made his choice. He wants the best of both worlds. He has made his bed and now doesn't want to sleep in it. Axxman you typed the things in bold and nobody else did. To me those phrases speak volumes. If anyone else on here was in that situation and your kids gave you that ultimatum, What would you choose? Would you choose your kids or the woman? He can't have both and he does not realize it. It will be a rude awakening. What he wanted is a reconciliation in the marriage. What he wanted was to be restored into the flock of Christians that he had literally given everything he had to for 20 years. He knew his role of church leader was over...he didn't ever think that he would be refused a role as a brother...how many fallen brothers and sisters had he restored into the fold? Surely they would forgive him in return. He never figured that the wife and family that he had nurtured and raised his entire life would never forgive him. Both of his estranged children are in marriages spawned by divorce...and he painfully guided them through those experiences. Surely, they would be there in understanding for him. Alas, the favors were not returned. He chose his family...they chose not to forgive. Thats their issue...they can live in their glass houses. Maybe I am not being clear enough that he did truly repent and cast aside the other woman. It was not even a question. It was immediate and in his mind it was final. However, once the divorce was final, and the kids still were angry, and the church showed no intention of ever caring...a friend seemed pretty nice to him I reckon. If thats a sin (which i don't think it is) then shouldn't the church and his unforgiving family share in the culpability for completely abandoning him when he truly needed them? Sorry, with those details that changes everything. It's definetly more clear as to why you posted this. Still talking to this women will always be a problem but it seems from everything you said that reconciliation needs to happen. Based on what he did, I don't know what his ex-wife should do. I would have a hard time blaming her for anything regarding reconciliation. It sounds like the kids are just mad that it has taken away there parents marriage. With the kids being divorced there is no excuse for their actions. I will add that there are biblical examples where there was reconciliation and the end result was those people separating and just moving on without each other. You can reconcile and still have nothing to do with each other. I don't know why we think reconciliation involves having to see each other or still be married. I will give the biblical examples if need be. Edited January 14, 2010 by tjhawks1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheya joie Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,054 Content Per Day: 0.29 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/15/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2010 Thanks for explaining further and clearing up my confusion. While I do agree that there needs to be forgiveness, I also see that it will be very hard for his family members to come to that point; they probably still feel betrayed. Praying for all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerdaHannah Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 159 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 295 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 70 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/03/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1988 Share Posted January 14, 2010 hi, I know exactly what he feels like. I had a crush on my best friend too, and our relationship wasn't physical, but it was inappropriate (but i am not married yet). We aren't together now, but I cannot leave him, I need the friend in him. And believe me, what this pastor feels for the other woman is just friendship. You like a person a lot, you connect to them and they make your life better. He did slip and make a mistake. But it is really harsh harsh on him to sever all ties right now. It is like asking a mother to be away from her child. He will feel very unhappy. Even though this is against popular opinion, I think we should pray to God to make the wife more understanding. I totally understand what she feels like, and I'm totally with her for feeling mad. But the pastor is human. He is not a machine you can clean up at once. He has feelings and like all of us he needs friends to feel happy. The only solution I can think of is pray. The pastor needs healing and courage. The wife needs love and security. Only God can bring about changes in their heart and make this happen. Trust me, its just friendship. You will understand only if you go through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhawks1 Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/21/1981 Share Posted January 14, 2010 hi, I know exactly what he feels like. I had a crush on my best friend too, and our relationship wasn't physical, but it was inappropriate (but i am not married yet). We aren't together now, but I cannot leave him, I need the friend in him. And believe me, what this pastor feels for the other woman is just friendship. You like a person a lot, you connect to them and they make your life better. He did slip and make a mistake. But it is really harsh harsh on him to sever all ties right now. It is like asking a mother to be away from her child. He will feel very unhappy. Even though this is against popular opinion, I think we should pray to God to make the wife more understanding. I totally understand what she feels like, and I'm totally with her for feeling mad. But the pastor is human. He is not a machine you can clean up at once. He has feelings and like all of us he needs friends to feel happy. The only solution I can think of is pray. The pastor needs healing and courage. The wife needs love and security. Only God can bring about changes in their heart and make this happen. Trust me, its just friendship. You will understand only if you go through it. I agree with most of what you said and it is well said. But if he wants reconciliation with his family he needs to sever all ties with this women. Whether that is right or wrong, I will leave it alone for now. If he chooses to remain friends with this women then I don't know if there will ever be reconciliation. It's unfortunate but that is the reality of this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axxman Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,292 Content Per Day: 0.52 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/21/2007 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 14, 2010 Well...I for one am glad I cleared up some of the confusion...lol. I certainly don't think the wife should have divorced either...but she is an adult and she can choose her own path. She is a Christian woman who has a strong track record in the faith...I don't really want to disparrage her either. What happened...happened. Same with his kids...if the want to be angry and give ultimatums then that is their choice. Divorce is a very unpleasant thing and we all know that it hits the kids just as hard as anyone...so while I think they are being unneccessarily harsh that is something they need to work through. Sooooooo...my biggest thing was their use of scripture to continually refuse forgiveness and restoration. I wanted to know if they had scriptural support. It sounds to me, now that I've provided more details, that most of you are agreeing that they don't have a scriptural backing. This was my initial feeling, but I wanted to bounce it off some brothers and sisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjhawks1 Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/21/1981 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Well...I for one am glad I cleared up some of the confusion...lol. I certainly don't think the wife should have divorced either...but she is an adult and she can choose her own path. She is a Christian woman who has a strong track record in the faith...I don't really want to disparrage her either. What happened...happened. Same with his kids...if the want to be angry and give ultimatums then that is their choice. Divorce is a very unpleasant thing and we all know that it hits the kids just as hard as anyone...so while I think they are being unneccessarily harsh that is something they need to work through. Sooooooo...my biggest thing was their use of scripture to continually refuse forgiveness and restoration. I wanted to know if they had scriptural support. It sounds to me, now that I've provided more details, that most of you are agreeing that they don't have a scriptural backing. This was my initial feeling, but I wanted to bounce it off some brothers and sisters. I agree with you and it's unfortunate that we as christians sometimes struggle with forgiving someone and fail to realize what reconciliation details. I now feel your pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted January 14, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.58 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted January 14, 2010 it is very difficult to answer this question without direct interaction with the folks involved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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