Warning on rapture speculation

[Guest C.D. Light]

hi

[rollinTHUNDER]

Rollin --I didnt say it because "i would be hurt" to think otherwise.

[Matthitjah]

Quote C.D.,

Can u imagine any true CHRISTian being here, left under the dictatorship of any ANTICHRIST by the very one who said "god hath not appointed us to wrath, but to salvation"?

Furthermore, there is no reason or justification for God to leave those who are already true believers. (He appoints new preachers of the gospel in Rev 7)

cd

I can imagine it. We were left to the devices of Nero and various other Emporers of Rome as well as Nazi's and Communists(IE... Stalin and Hitler) These were all forms of the A.C. You can't deny these A.C.'s killed Christians.As well as many Jews.

Lets look at this track . G-d is Omnipresent, and Omniscient meaning he transcends time and space and knows all things past and present. Correct.

If as in your above statements as well as your last post and the feelings on your mother?  If He is Omniscient? He then would be inconsistent. He is the same Yesterday ,Today, And Tomorrow. Correct? If he raptures certain true believers (Ie..born agains)? Knowing that others (Born agains) will follow after these are gone. Leaving these new born agains to tribulation or rather wrath as you call it. How will he be righteous? Think about it your mother will make the Rapture. her circumstance was beyond her control her faith saved her.

Those saved during tribulation should not suffer any thing we shouldn't simply because they didn't believe earlier. Then what of grace? Will these be punished for their faith? He knew they would come to him. Why portion them Tribulation? Yet Not us ?Precisley because this mystery rapture takes only the select few special believers . All other believers are punished for their lack of strong conviction and Faith . Some are weak true. That doesn't make them any less than we. Does it? If they profess Christ are they not saved? Howbeit??????? If these new Christians called out of the Tribulation are punished by Tribulation for their former lack of belief ? Then I should be punished too. For I once didn't believe. Neither did you . Nor did St. Paul. Can't you see the hypocisy of this doctrine?

This special Rapture can't be. It makes a liar of the Gospel. It makes my Lord inconsistent. Say it isn't so.....Not the lord I know. Am I making sense??????

Peace :inlove: Amen

[Guest C.D. Light]

Quote C.D.,

Can u imagine any true CHRISTian being here, left under the dictatorship of any ANTICHRIST by the very one who said "god hath not appointed us to wrath, but to salvation"?

Furthermore, there is no reason or justification for God to leave those who are already true believers. (He appoints new preachers of the gospel in Rev 7)

cd

I can imagine it. We were left to the devices of Nero and various other Emporers of Rome as well as Nazi's and Communists(IE... Stalin and Hitler) These were all forms of the A.C. You can't deny these A.C.'s killed Christians.As well as many Jews.

Lets look at this track . G-d is Omnipresent, and Omniscient meaning he transcends time and space and knows all things past and present. Correct.

If as in your above statements as well as your last post and the feelings on your mother?

[Matthitjah]

Quote C.D.

Also lets not mix together the "daily" type "tribulations" in our lives while here--with the Period of THE Tribulation.

So Nero, etc has nothing in this equation.

Why not? You would call what Nero and Hitler did daily type Tribulations? Nero had Christians children burned before their very eye's.

As for Noah . Your right the door slammed shut and then G-ds Wrath was poured out. Before that he was mocked and laughed at a form of Tribulation as it were.

I didn't say

Why doesnt God go ahead and rapture them anyhow, knowing that when they see, they will believe?  

What I said was for G-d to be consistent. It would not be good that some believers suffer Tribulation while others don't. Simply because they fell short. We all fall short. Otherwise .Why have Grace?

No. God is God, and we are not.

Thank G-d for that!

If we remained, we could not have church, couldnt openly preach, couldnt discuss the bible, no bible study, couldnt admit we were christian, and most of all would starve to death because antichrist will see to you you get no food, shelter or anything else, unless it was done "his way". Take the Mark and get in line.

There wouldnt be a christian who would watch their kids starve to death, if it came to that. That is one of the things God SAVES us from.

Talk is cheap. You might sit here and say you would let your kids starve if necessary, and that u wouldnt take the Mark--but thats just a "full stomach" talking.  A hungry one speaks with a different mouth.

First of all don't presume to say you know what is in my mind where it concerns the Lord. Secondly your own words deceive your own doctrine. You have rightly said there will be Christians saved coming out of the Great Tribulation. Now certainly they will have hard decisions. Maybe even the one you've posited. Why should they have those decisions and not us? Simply because they believed too late. We're special because we believed earlier on. They will suffer unbelievable Tribulation as what? A form of punishment? For not believing earlier? Not to be absurd . Where am I Catholic confession. Now you go say 1000 Hail Marys because you believed too late.Oh by the way suffer Great Tribulation also.As you have said. Where is G-ds justice?

P.S. You ever notice that after Rev 3 or 4, the Church is never mentioned again? Neither is gentile, or born again, or children of God.or believers..... cause we aint here anymore after that.

What of revelation 6?

We shall have to leave it at that because this discussion is getting sticky.

I will say one of the arguments will win out very shortly.

Until then we have the commandment to Love one another.

So as George is want to say , With much Agape Love, and Peace in Christ.

Peace :inlove: Amen

[Guest C.D. Light]

Dr Luke--No I did not say there would be christians saved out of the Trib Period.  I said they are called saints.

First of all, catholic is not a christian faith, so no amount of "hail marys" would even be in this equation.

The enduring of Tribulation for those Tribulation Saints will be something they brought on themselves; not by me, and not by God.  They just didnt get out of the way when they had the chance. How else can you put it.  And "thems the breaks". There has been plenty of warning, god knows.

I dont know how you can disagree with Gods Plan here; dont you trust that He knows what He's doing?  You dont believe that he is a Just God?  Or what?  Why are you doubting that this is Just, after He said He is Just?

I think there will be no doubt that these Trib Saints have heard the warning over and over and over and then over and over again.  So why are crying around about them?  How long do you expect God to wait?  Whose in charge here anyhow?  You seem to want to dictate to God what He ought to do. You seem to want God to have sympathy for these people "out of the goodness of his heart".  You seem to want Him to violate His own word, because of the failure of these.

I guess it is difficult to fathom what it is like when mankind refuses to believe UNTIL they SEE it, but that is the case here. Waiting on them would never accomplish it, because they refuse to receive the faith to believe what they cannot see.  Im sure God has tried to give it to them tho.

He has said "my Spirit will not always strive with man".  So there IS a cut off time, ready or not, here he comes  

And hes warned plenty, to BE READY. They did not heed that.

cd

[Guest C.D. Light]

Luke--why we should not mix the two different references to daily tribulations and the Period of Time referred to as The Tribulation Period, is because the Bible  talks about them in two distinctly different ways.

And you cannot equate a Nero thing with the End Time. In order to equate anything, you have to measure it by an identical  counterpart.  

In this case it would have to be measured by the only other destruction of the entire world, which would have to be Noah's Day.

cd

[Matthitjah]

C.D.,

I trust G-d implicitly. Of this have no doubt. I also know a little something of his charecter (Through his Word and prayer). Which is exactly as you have said he is long suffering. He is just. He is Righteous. He wish's that no one perish.

I do not play G-d or contend with his Word.

These Trib Saints. How did they become Saints? Saint is a word used to describe a believer. If a man has the belief of Jesus? Jesus will change his  heart and mind.

So why are crying around about them?

Maybe because the Lord is concerned about them? Like he once was you before he saved you.

First of all, catholic is not a christian faith, so no amount of "hail marys" would even be in this equation.

That was meant sarcastically.Being absurd often proves absurdity.

The enduring of Tribulation for those Tribulation Saints will be something they brought on themselves; not by me, and not by God.  They just didnt get out of the way when they had the chance. How else can you put it.  And "thems the breaks". There has been plenty of warning, god knows.

So they are Saints which means believers. So because they failed to believe at your appointed time through their Human weakness and sin G-d should punish them more than we? What makes us so special? Careful now. They will be born again believers as well when they believe. They will profess Jesus to be the Lord the same as we. They will have the same measure of Grace. That professing Jesus allows forgiveness of their sin. If that forgiveness is complete, as it is? Then for G-d to be consistent he will have to rapture them away from Tribualtion the moment they profess during Tribulation. This is precisly why this is a matter of Grace. The early rapture doctrine puts some believers ahead of others. "The last will be first and the first last." That's just not how it works.

You have rightly said there is a cut off time. Grace will end. When it does there will be no more Saints to be saved. But if the early cut off time you describe is right? Howbeit there are Saints afterwards?

Either G-d is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow or he isn't. Then in the case he isn't (as you think) he could cut off grace, change his mind . Then say wait a minute I'll give these people another chance. Only first I'll make them go through some things no other believer had to go through just to serve them right.They were blind and in sin just like very other believer I ever saved. Yet I will cause them much more grief and pain because they didn't heed the warning earlier.

How many times did he say to forgive not 7, not 70 but 70 times 70 to even get close to the grace of G-d.

How many times did he warn you? Before you believed? Personally he's been after me my whole life. Even when I was a child of say 4 or 5.

And you cannot equate a Nero thing with the End Time. In order to equate anything, you have to measure it by an identical  counterpart.  

Tell that to a Christian who was about to be ripped apart alive by a hungry angry Lion. Or perhaps crucified. Or perhaps burned alive. I think they would equate that to the end time. They would probably say hold fast in Faith. For when you least expect it Tribulation will come!

Peace

:inlove: Amen

[rollinTHUNDER]

This is sort of funny, except for the part where it causes many to not be ready. This guy is trying to prove a case for the post-trib position, but take a closer look at his rapture.

Look where the elect are being gathered from folks. Take agood look at verse 31. If this is the rapture as he indicates, then how in the world did the elect get to heaven in the first place?? It appears to be funny, but it is very sad, because as I said before, those who fall for this will think they have more time than they ready do, and many will not be prepared to go and meet their Bridegroom when He comes. This is the second coming, not the rapture. Be careful people, don't let no one steal your crown.

So your jabbing jest is all over that word "heaven" in verse 31 and you believe you have supported and hung your erroneous "pretrib" lie on that hinge?

It's hard to believe that you actually have the nerve to call me a liar. It's true that we disagree on our beliefs of when the rapture will occur, but at least I respected you. It's truely amazing the pride of some people. It appears that you think you have a corner on all Biblical truth, and even all the answers to the mysterious rapture. But now it's my turn to tell you what I see. No, I'm not gonna stoop down to your level, but it does appear that there is a wolf in the sheep pen. Not only are you calling all pre-tribbers liar's, but I have also seen where you have publicly attacked another brother without proof. I'm talking about the "Kenneth Copeland" thread in the Various Issues Of Discussion Forum. Your true colors are showing that instead of coming against things that are the enemy of God, you stand in the midst of Christ' church an accuser, or one seeking division. If I were you, I would really take a good look in the mirror. And when you do, I hope you ask the one you see, "Who appointed you judge and orded you to cast the first stone?" It's hard to respect the enemies that come against the church, but much harder to respect the enemies within the church. People may respect your opinion, but I'm not one of them.

And as for hinging my pre-trib beliefs on verse 31, your wrong again. I was merely disproving this paranoid believers article, and I did it with just one verse. It was his verse, not mine. You then tried to counter with the same story from the book of Mark, but you were again proven wrong by another poster. As for me, I no longer wish to discuss it with you.

[Guest C.D. Light]

Luke--first of all it is not "My appointed time". Its Gods time, and time is just about up now.

You asked how did they become saint? If you read in Rev 7 you will se how. God seals 144,00 from the Tribes of Israel to evangelize and 'splain it to them.

And while u read that, ask yourself why God is having to appoint new evangelists; why arent we still doing it?

CAUSE WE'RE GONE!

Then ask yourself, if we are still here, then what are WE doing? There's not one word about us anywhere during that time.  And if God has turned evangelism over to the Jews, then God is finished with us and there's no reason for us to hang around. God doesnt do things without purpose.....hes finished with us, and so he removes us. Its really quite simple, u see.

cd