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"PROOF FOR A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE"


Karen C.

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" PROOF FOR A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE "

--*Guaranteed to blow the human mind*--  

Many believers try to use the gospels, mainly Mathew 24, as proof against a pre-trib rapture, but I want to share something about this profound mystery that many are not aware of.  That the rapture was (at that time) unrevealed.

Mathew 24 is mostly referring to the tribulation, not the rapture that some believers like to combine with the second coming. The resurrection and second coming were common knowledge, but none of the gospels mentioned the rapture, at least not directly. In Matt. 24:3 the disciples didn't question Jesus about being "caught up", but rather about His second coming. The second coming will have signs, but them being "caught up" will come upon them suddenly, like a thief in the night and as quickly as a twinkling of an eye, or faster than you can blink.

Matt.24:3 - "As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. "Tell us," they said, "When will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

They were asking first, about the stones of the temple being thrown down, and then second, about the sign of His second coming and the end of the age.  The temple was destroyed in 70 AD, but the second coming and the end of the age are still unfulfilled future events, but the second coming will have signs, while we are told that Jesus will also come like a thief in the night and unexpectedly.  These must be two different events, because it can't be both ways.  One will have signs, but the other will come unexpectedly, like getting caught in a trap after the door closes, (Matt. 25:10).

They asked this question before the mystery of the rapture had even been revealed to them, so at the time, they had no knowledge of the rapture whatsoever. It was Paul that revealed to them this mystery, but Paul wasn't even a believer at the time when they asked this question, in fact, he was trying to destroy the church.  Paul did not believe until after Christ had already ascended to heaven. But the disciples asked Jesus this question before Christ was even crucified. They didn't even know that He was going to die for the sins of the world, even after Jesus repeatedly warned them. So, they could have only been talking about the second coming then, and not the rapture that post-tribbers like to combine with the second coming. There now, that kinda sheds a different light on the subject doesn't it??

 

This is the first revelation of the mysterious rapture:

1 Corr. 15: 51-52 - "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--(52)in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

It was Paul who revealed this mystery. He also wrote most of the New Testament. The disciples in Mathew 24:3 hadn't been paying very close attention to what Jesus was telling them. Peter went on to deny Him three times and the rest of them were also fearful after His death, not even knowing that their Master was to be crucified, even after He repeatedly told them the time was coming. This time was also before they had received the Holy Spirit, which didn't happen until after Christ had ascended back to heaven. So the disciples at that time, not only did they not have the Spirit in them, but they were also unable to discern the spiritual things, because it is impossible without the Holy Spirit living inside of a believer.

Listen to what Jesus told His disciples before He ascended:

John 16: 12-13 - "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13)But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come."

Also, How could Jesus tell them when He was coming to take them to be where He was, if He did not know the time Himself?? Jesus said that He didn't know, nor the angels, but only His Father. In the traditional Jewish wedding, the father would not send his son to get the bride until he aproved of the son's provisions for his bride. That's where Jesus said He was going, to prepare a place for them.  He is still building it, and He will not be finished until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then Jacob's trouble will begin.  Be careful folks, we were never told that the rapture, or our "being caught up together with them" will have any signs.  This is a very dangerous false assumption. END OF PART ONE

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Sometimes I think it's funny, knowing that the bible says that we are not appointed to wrath, but yet many christians believe that we will go through God's wrath in the coming tribulation, like we will be devinely protected.  There will be, however, a small group that will see this type of protection, but it won't be our current body of Christ, but rather, this is reserved for the sealing of the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel in the tribulation.

Some christians make the claim that because God protected Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego while they were in the firey furnace, then He will also protect us christians in the 7 year tribulation.  Well I'll agree that God did actually protect Daniel's three friends in the furnace, but come on folks, this is not a picture of the rapture or the second coming.  It has nothing to do with either one.  Christ Himself gave us two pictures of what His coming could be compared to, and the furnace was not one of them, and neither was the one where God protected Daniel in the lions den.  It's not hard for sheep to stray, and it appears that many have wandered away from the sheep pen.

We always hear of how wise Daniel and Solomon were, but the wisdom they had was not really their own.  It was a gift from the Lord.  It's God that directs our path and we draw our wisdom and knowledge from Him, as well as all the other gifts too, but I love the steps that Jesus took to keep the wolves in sheep's clothing from knowing how to get where the real sheep are going.  He is the very definition of wise in my book.  He has out smarted them, sort of like leading the wolves to a dry well.  

His salvation message is so simple that a child can understand it, but yet, the worlds wise trip right over the stumblingblock.  It's as though Christ designed a built-in way of keeping imposters out of the Kingdom of God, and even many who claim to know Him.  I'm not saying that everyone that believes in the mid or post-trib rapture are wolves, because I actually believe that there are wolves in all camps, pre, mid and post-trib, not to even mention the scoffers.  If I claimed something as ridiculous as that, I would be causing division, and that is not my purpose here.  So be it known now, that I'm not against any such group.

He displays this wisdom in His parables.  Instead of the sheep being the ones to get lost, He turns the table on the wolves so that they are the ones to lose their way.  The Lord gives us a special understanding, while the wolves stand there dumbfounded.  Salvation is very simple to understand, but the mysteries of prophecy are very complex.  So much so, that the Lord must give us the key to unlock them, and without the key, even believers can stumble over these mysteries just the same as the wolves trip over the parables.  Without the Holy Spirit guiding us, putting together the pieces to the puzzle is impossible.

This is what I mean.  Take a look at this wisdom:

Mark 4:9-12 - "Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." (10)When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables.  (11)he told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables (12)so that, "they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!"  

Have you ever wondered why He has made these mysteries so complicated, even for us that believe?  I believe the reason is because that He wants to see who really loves Him.  He came to set us free, and to do that, He had to fulfill the old law, which He did.  So we no longer live under the bondage of the law.  The old law had it's commandments carved in stone tablets, but what most christians don't know is that Christ gave us His own commandments.  He didn't carve them in stone or write them down, and number them in any certain order.  He scattered them like seed through out the entire New Testament, and then He told us to seek, knock and ask.  They are also hidden in the hearts of those who love Him.  If we truely love Him, then we will obey Him.  His word is our daily bread and our Bibles should not be just collecting dust.  Lets not just feed our flesh, but our spirit as well!!

Now lets look at the two pictures He wanted us to see regarding His coming.  As always, I am not cramming my beliefs down anyones throat, but for you scoffers that read this, please don't bother telling me how much of a nut I am, or that I am reading too many Hal Lindsey books and the like.  I probably may not even want to reply if you do.  I have never read in any book what I am about to share, nor have I ever heard anyone else teach these things.  If you don't believe this, well then have a nice day anyway!!  END OF PART TWO

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In Mathew 24, Jesus tells us that His coming will be like it was in the days of Noah, but I want to go to the book of Luke now, because Lukes version gives us the two pictures of His coming, instead of just one.

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Now in the story of Lot, we get a different view.  Actually, I can see two pictures in this account, and neither one is a glimpse of the rapture.  One shows that Lot missed the mark or God's best, and the other shows a picture of Israel in the tribulation, which I won't cover in this article.  In this story, we'll see the ones who are left behind, and they are running for their lives.  As we saw Noah escape the flood, floating high above the mountains in chapter 7:17-20,  another story is developing in a different chapter and we'll pick it up in the same verse we left off in chapter 7, but instead, we'll move to chapter 19.  This is remarkable!!  I am totally amazed at what the Lord is showing me here!!  It reminds me of two other threads that I wrote previously, namely, "The Parable of the Sower" and "A MYSTERY: The Rapture and the Parable of the Ten Virgins".  This picture is much more difficult to understand because it has more characters and more events to interpret, so I will interpret the bold print, verse by verse after I show the scriptures.  Lets go there right now!

Genesis 19:10-26 - "(10) But the two angels reached out and pulled Lot in and bolted the door. (11) Then they blinded the men of Sodom so they couldn't find the doorway.

(12) "Do you have any other relatives here in the city?" the angels asked. "Get them out of this place

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Amen THUNDER! :thumb: in complete agreement :angel:

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:angel: You are right Thunder. :inlove:
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Preach it brother! :thumb:

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Hi all in Christ!

http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0019.html

Some of you may already have come across it but I thought I'd provide the above link for the following article which I find very good, comprehensive and an edifying read (it's w/o charts, so please click on that link for the charts) with regards to a Pre-Wrath position, differing rather slightly from my Mid-trib position:-

End Time Charts

By Gary Vaterlaus & Scott Holmgren

Rapture Positions Compared

This chart provides a simple comparison of the four general positions that are taken in reference to the timing of the Rapture in relation to Daniel's 70th Week - the seven-year period at the bottom.

Both the Pretrib and Prewrath positions have question marks that indicate that there is no fixed time for when the Rapture will occur. Midtrib places the Rapture at the halfway mark, or three-and-a-half years from the beginning of the 70th Week. Posttrib fixes the Rapture at the completion of the seven-year period.

Click here to get more detailed information on the Rapture positions as well as Millennial Positions.

Daniel's 70th Week

This chart diagrams Daniel's 70th Week as described in Daniel 9:27:

"And he [the "prince who is to come," i.e. the beast or Antichrist, in v. 26] will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

"The middle of the week" refers to the mid-point of the seven-year period. Since a prophetic year is 360 days, half of seven years, or three-and-a-half years, equals 1260 days or forty-two months.

Several other passages confirm that forty-two month timeframe after the covenant is broken:

Daniel 12:7b

"

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Thanks eve,

But in this thread I'm only trying to prove, which I believe it does, a pre-trib rapture.  It's not a view of all rapture theories as a whole.  If you want to try and disprove what the Lord has shown me hear, then please try to show me where you disagree with what I have presented as evidence.  I don't think you can disprove something just by talking about what other theories believe.  And in the meantime, I'll keep on trying to find all my errors and edit them out.  Because writing is so unnatural to me, I always go back and find plenty of errors, like missing words, misspelling, missing thoughts and the like.  But I'm getting there, little by little.  Cheers!!

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Last night I was going back and re-checking what I have written, and trying to edit my mistakes out. I noticed that I had forgotten to bold verse (16) in the story of Lot. This verse is very important, because it tells us why Lot didn't make it to the mountain.  The reason is: that he didn't make it because he hesitated when the angels told him to hurry and escape to the mountains.  He wasn't ready.  This is why Jesus told us to be alert and sober, and to keep watch. And by failing to heed this warning, even true christian believers will get caught in the trappings of this world. Don't mistake that last sentence to mean that they will not be saved, because the word tells us that many must be purified in the fire. But also, it tells us that some will fall away from the truth. Look at this verse:

Luke 21:34 -"Be on guard so that your hearts are not weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and the worries of this life, and that day does not catch you unexpectedly,"

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