By whose power?

[Guest agua]

x

[~candice~]

And this too...

Mar 13:21 And then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'Look, there he is!' do not believe it.

Mar 13:22 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Mar 13:23 But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him.

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

[Guest HIS girl]

Pharaohs sorcerers were able to copy several miraculous signs Moses and Aaron performed.

Exo 7:10-11 KJV

(10) And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.

(11) Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.

Exo 7:20-22 KJV

(20) And Moses and Aaron did so, as the LORD commanded; and he lifted up the rod, and smote the waters that were in the river, in the sight of Pharaoh, and in the sight of his servants; and all the waters that were in the river were turned to blood.

(21) And the fish that was in the river died; and the river stank, and the Egyptians could not drink of the water of the river; and there was blood throughout all the land of Egypt.

(22) And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exo 8:6-7 KJV

(6) And Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt; and the frogs came up, and covered the land of Egypt.

(7) And the magicians did so with their enchantments, and brought up frogs upon the land of Egypt.

Where did the power these sorcerers possessed come from?

Can it be said the source of the power the sorcerers of Pharaoh possessed is the source of the "wonderful works" the people claim in Matthew 7?

Mat 7:21-22 KJV

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

In response to the verses from Matthew 7 v 21-22...Jesus responds to them - "I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness." Matthew 7 v 23 - to me that's a sure fire sign they weren't walking with the Lord.....

The practices of dark arts/magic and so forth used by the ancient Egyptians were occultic in origin and nature...

[Guest man]

Where did the power these sorcerers possessed come from?

Can it be said the source of the power the sorcerers of Pharaoh possessed is the source of the "wonderful works" the people claim in Matthew 7?

Mat 7:21-22 KJV

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

The Word doesn't tell us what they did, except that they practiced lawlessness. There's no hint of any supernatural forces at work there. I'm not saying there wasn't, but I don't believe they were all guilty of sorcery. To say that they were is adding something to the Word that isn't there.

Jesus gave His disciples this commandment.

Matthew 10

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

He also said this.

John 14

15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

When He said this, "I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness," I believe He is making reference to those who did not keep His commandments, but had pleasures in unrighteousness.

[Guest man]

Jesus gave His disciples this commandment.

Matthew 10

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

He also said this.

John 14

15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

When He said this, "I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness," I believe He is making reference to those who did not keep His commandments, but had pleasures in unrighteousness.

Are you saying these people in Matthew 7 were disciples of Jesus?

If so why did Jesus "never" know them?

They thought they were. Big difference.

[nebula]

Where did the power these sorcerers possessed come from?

They knew how to operate in the spirit realm in ways our Western culture do not believe possible.

Can it be said the source of the power the sorcerers of Pharaoh possessed is the source of the "wonderful works" the people claim in Matthew 7?

Mat 7:21-22 KJV

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

It's a little tricky trying to compare the two because the Egyptian magicians were practicing real witchcraft.

The ones in Matt. 7 weren't.

Consider how Saul prophesied when he was trying to kill David. Or how Sampson kept moving under God's anointing even while chasing the skirts of the philistine women (something strictly forbidden in Torah - aka sinning).

[Guest HIS girl]

'nebula'

It's a little tricky trying to compare the two because the Egyptian magicians were practicing real witchcraft.

The ones in Matt. 7 weren't.

Well we don't really know that for a fact.

Occultism is included with lawlessness - sin...something as commonplace as reading the "stars" (zodiac) and some Christians do this, is under the occultic umbrella - lawlessness - sin.

[nebula]

(you must teach me how to separate the quoted text so I can address individual comments as you do.Please )

* Use [ ] instead of ( ) with the directions below*

When you hit the quote button, you get:

(quote name=....)Text text text text text(/quote)

To separate parts into separate quotes, I do this -

Put my cursor at the end of the first part I want quoted. Then I type (/quote) and hit Enter a few times to separate the rest away from what I will be typing.

For the second part (if I want to quote middle sections) is to simply put my cursor at the end of where I want to type and hit Enter a few times (separating again). Then I highlight the part I want quoted and click the 'wrap in quote tags" button above (looks like a speaking bubble).

At the very end, I simply type (quote) before the text (because the end quote is already there).

The tricky part comes when there are quotes inside of quotes and I try to delete some previous quotes in order to clean up the post - I hate it when the original quote and all responses are re-quoted over and over!).

[nebula]

Where did the power these sorcerers possessed come from?

They knew how to operate in the spirit realm in ways our Western culture do not believe possible.

Can it be said the source of the power the sorcerers of Pharaoh possessed is the source of the "wonderful works" the people claim in Matthew 7?

Mat 7:21-22 KJV

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

It's a little tricky trying to compare the two because the Egyptian magicians were practicing real witchcraft.

The ones in Matt. 7 weren't.

Consider how Saul prophesied when he was trying to kill David. Or how Sampson kept moving under God's anointing even while chasing the skirts of the philistine women (something strictly forbidden in Torah - aka sinning).

Were Egyptian magicians practicing witchcraft in the same way modern witches do and is the power they use from demons?

Pretty much.

Particulars (i.e. chants) ma be different, but modern witchcraft has its roots in ancient religious practices. I'm not sure which particular one(s) Wiccans claim were their "ancestors", but if you researched occult practices and ancient religious practices, you'd see a lot of similarity.

Where did the power the people in Matthew 7 used come from?

"and in thy name have cast out devils?"

Remember what Jesus said about Satan casting out Satan?

'... "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste ; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 "If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself ; how then will his kingdom stand ? ' (Matt. 12:25-26)

Saul consulted demons or familiar spirits yes?

He consulted a medium once, much later than this.

1 Sam 19

18 Now David fled and escaped and came to Samuel at Ramah, and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and stayed in Naioth. 19 It was told Saul, saying, "Behold, David is at Naioth in Ramah." 20 Then Saul sent messengers to take David, but when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, with Samuel standing and presiding over them, the Spirit of God came upon the messengers of Saul ; and they also prophesied. 21 When it was told Saul, he sent other messengers, and they also prophesied. So Saul sent messengers again the third time, and they also prophesied. 22 Then he himself went to Ramah and came as far as the large well that is in Secu ; and he asked and said, "Where are Samuel and David ?" And someone said, "Behold, they are at Naioth in Ramah." 23 He proceeded there to Naioth in Ramah ; and the Spirit of God came upon him also, so that he went along prophesying continually until he came to Naioth in Ramah. 24 He also stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay down naked all that day and all that night. Therefore * they say, "Is Saul also among the prophets ?"

Sampson was on a path set by God I thought.

It does state that the first woman he married was set by God.

But afterward he spent a night with a Philistine prostitute.

And then he pursued and married Delilah.

The last two have no mention of the Lord having anything to do with this.

Yet he was still a judge over Israel, and he still had his strength the Lord gave him (until the hair cut).

[Guest man]

'nebula'

It's a little tricky trying to compare the two because the Egyptian magicians were practicing real witchcraft.

The ones in Matt. 7 weren't.

Well we don't really know that for a fact.

No we don't, so we can't just assume they were.

Occultism is included with lawlessness - sin...something as commonplace as reading the "stars" (zodiac) and some Christians do this, is under the occultic umbrella - lawlessness - sin.

These things don't require magic. Anyone can do these things.

"have we not prophesied in thy name?.......and in thy name done many wonderful works?"