Where I stand on Israel...and why

[Matthitjah]

Jesus never used the word "church."

Amen sis!

He used the word Kingdom.

When we are told that the Kingdom is within us (Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said,

[Matthitjah]

I believe that where folks run into problems with this replacement theology stuff is they actually believe that they are the promise.

[OneLight]

Jesus never used the word "church."

Amen sis!

He used the word Kingdom.

When we are told that the Kingdom is within us (Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said,

[Matthitjah]

Jesus never used the word "church."

Amen sis!

He used the word Kingdom.

When we are told that the Kingdom is within us (Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said,

[OneLight]

Jesus never used the word "church."

Amen sis!

He used the word Kingdom.

When we are told that the Kingdom is within us (Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”) , and we are the body of Christ, the church (Colossians 1:24 "I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church"), how can not say He is not speaking of the church?

Did Jesus ever use the word "church"?

(I know what translators have inserted into the text, but is this what Jesus said?)

No, He did not use the word "Church". Yet He did say that the Kingdom is within us and Paul tells us that we are the church. Due to the other verses, we can surmise that the kingdom is the church just as we can surmise that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the Trinity.

Jesus gained a Kingdom and we are gaining Christ, through no effort of our own, I might add. Therefore, we are inheriting a Kingdom and that Kingdom is within us because we inherit it through Christ. Although, we have not fully attained it. We merely have a promise of the Ressurection of the Just. Still, the promise is Good and it is sealed unto the day of Redemption. It's the same Kingdom that the Jew longed and looked for, the same redemption, and the same promise of the Ressurection of the Just. Nothing's changed except that we have been grafted into the promise. Which initially was the plan.

Paul spoke of it here;

Ac 23:6

¶ But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

God is bringing many son's to Glory through Christ Jesus. That does not negate the Kingdom. The Kingdom is the One that was always promised.

Peace,

Dave

Christ always had the kingdom, being God, but how does what you say answer what I asked?

The Church is not the focus, He is, the Church is His reward or inheritence.

That's what I just said, folks get a skewed opinion because they've lost focus. Not that you have though brother.

I always agree that He is the focus and would never deny that. As I reread what reference BB gave;

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

I can see they were speaking of Christ being given also to the Gentiles making salvation for all. My apologies for looking at the word "church" and all it encompass and not at the context of how it was being used.

God Bless!

[Bold Believer]

Jesus never used the word "church."

Amen sis!

He used the word Kingdom.

When we are told that the Kingdom is within us (Luke 17:20-21 "Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said,

[Bold Believer]

Of course, Bold believer, you would be welcome to join Him where He is, but would you want to? Or would you rather continue to hold onto your tradition?

By the way, Bold Believer,

I looked at the language used in Mt 21:43, specifically the words given and nation.

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

Didomi (given) conveys the idea of presenting someone something to be entrusted with or to administer.

Ethnos refers to a people group, usually the Gentiles in Scripture.

The Head of the "ethnos" "Church" is Jesus, and he is not an "ethnos" - He is a Jew. He is still as fully man and as fully God as He always was and shall be - the anti-type of Joseph and of Moses - who became princes of the Gentiles and yet identified fully with their Jewish heritage, their Jewish culture and their Jewish brethren, though they took a Gentile bride. Jesus is just as fully man as He is fully God, and he identifies fully with His Jewish heritage, Jewish culture and Jewish brethren, and like Joseph He yearns for them and mourns for them with such a deep yearning and mourning that when the reconciliation finally comes, the whole "house of Pharaoh" will hear His loud sobs as He embraces them again - and if the Lord were to walk on earth this December passed your "church", and you had to invite Him in to celebrate Christmas, He will look you up and down and tell you you can keep your festival with pagan roots which He wants no part of, and walk straight across to the Jewish part of town to enter a Messianic congregation and celebrate Chanukkah with His brethren.

Agreed. And AS the head of that Church, and the Kingdom, He can choose to have whomever He so chooses administer it. Since the Jewish leadership was not worthy to administer the kingdom, He chose to give that administration to GENTILES for a time. He can do that, He's the King.

BTW, I personally believe Jesus was born at the Feast of Tabernacles, not Dec 25. You can't pin that one on me.

[nebula]

Did Jesus ever use the word "church"?

(I know what translators have inserted into the text, but is this what Jesus said?)

The word used in Matthew 16:18 is ekklesia or church. It can also mean the assembly of the Israelites.

Yes and no.

The word Jesus used is ekklesia, and it does mean "assembly."

No, it does not mean some brand new word pulled out of the air: "church."

No, "assembly" as a word is not particular or exclusive to any group.

Jesus said, "I will build My 'assembly'," not "I will build My 'church.'"

[Guest]

Did Jesus ever use the word "church"?

(I know what translators have inserted into the text, but is this what Jesus said?)

The word used in Matthew 16:18 is ekklesia or church. It can also mean the assembly of the Israelites.

Yes and no.

The word Jesus used is ekklesia, and it does mean "assembly."

No, it does not mean some brand new word pulled out of the air: "church."

No, "assembly" as a word is not particular or exclusive to any group.

Jesus said, "I will build My 'assembly'," not "I will build My 'church.'"

Amen!

And Like Sister Ruth, My Heart Belongs To The LORD God Of The Jew

And she said, Behold, thy sister in law is gone back unto her people, and unto her gods: return thou after thy sister in law.

And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God:

Where thou diest, will I die, and there will I be buried: the LORD do so to me, and more also, if ought but death part thee and me. Ruth 1:15-17

And Whether Or Not I Understand Who The Elect Are

As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. Romans 11:28

I Will Put My Hope, My Life In The Hands

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: Philippians 1:6

Of The Man From Galilee

And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. Matthew 21:11

And Rejoice!

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:4-6

Come Quickly LORD!

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee. Psalms 122:1

[Guest shiloh357]

The promises given to Israel are always and ALWAYS WILL BE FULFILLED in Messiah.

The Bible does not say that. God makes all kinds of promises to Israel that will be fulfilled to Israel, in a literal manner, such as the restoration of Israel promised in Ezek. 36 and 37 and numerous other passages.

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

In essence, you are NOT an heir unless you are part of the One who IS THE SEED. Ethnic Israel is NOT entitled as a nation, because the promise is not to a NATION but to Abraham and his Seed (Jesus).

You are confusing issues. Paul is discussing the error of the judaizers that were teaching the Galatians that they had to become full citizens of national Israel (be circumcized) in order to be saved in addition to faith in Christ. Paul's argument is that they are already Abraham's seed by faith in Christ. He was NOT arguing that all promises to Israel are fulfilled in Christ.

1. The Church is the Great Congregation from the Old Testament

Incorrect. Israel is Israel. The Church is the Church. There is NO Scriptural basis for your assertion. Israel is NEVER spiritualized as the church.

2

. Israel is all of the ethnic Jews who are now or will be saved

No, the Bible does not support that. "Israel" is used often in reference to unsaved ethnic Jews. In fact, the term "Israel" is never used to refer to anyone other than ethnic Jews saved or not.

3. The current nation of Israel is not entitled to the promise because they are unbelievers

The restoration promises are being fulfilled to Israel even as we speak, and Ezekiel prophesys that they will return and be restored to the land in unbelief. Furthermore, NO ONE Jew or Gentile is "entitled to the promise." The promise is the product of God's grace, not any so called entitlement.

4. The promise was not made to the Nation of Israel, but to Abraham and his Seed which is Christ

You act as if God only made one promise. He made tons of promises that He intends to fulfill to unsaved, ethnic Israel.

5. Any individual who is in Christ is entitled to the Promise.

Wrong. We receive the promise by grace thourgh faith not entitlement. I am not entitled to the promise, but I am allowed to participate in it by God's grace.