MorningGlory Posted January 3, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 3, 2011 And, playing into your sceptical nature, what are the odds that the Word would survive in written form for over 3,500 years if it was not the real deal? I would suggest you not use that argument since there are older traditions and writing from other religions. Suggest anything you please but.....other than the Torah (basically the Old Testament) what other religious texts or traditions, regardless of how old, are relevant to a present day Christian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 And, playing into your sceptical nature, what are the odds that the Word would survive in written form for over 3,500 years if it was not the real deal? I would suggest you not use that argument since there are older traditions and writing from other religions. Those traditions are extinct and their religious writings are preserved in fragments. No other book or manuscript from ancient times, contemporary with the Bible enjoys the wealth of preservation. Honestly, compared to other ancient cultures, it is almost embarrassing (for them) how well preserved the biblical text is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Those traditions are extinct and their religious writings are preserved in fragments. No other book or manuscript from ancient times, contemporary with the Bible enjoys the wealth of preservation. Honestly, compared to other ancient cultures, it is almost embarrassing (for them) how well preserved the biblical text is. No, that is not the case. I would suggest exploring other religious traditions. Huston Smith has a nice book ("World Religions" or something like that) that would be a good place to start. Even better would be talking to folks of different faith traditions. Well I don't have access to any of that at this time. So tell me, what religious texts are you referring to specifically that are older than the Bible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2011 And, playing into your sceptical nature, what are the odds that the Word would survive in written form for over 3,500 years if it was not the real deal? I would suggest you not use that argument since there are older traditions and writing from other religions. Suggest anything you please but.....other than the Torah (basically the Old Testament) what other religious texts or traditions, regardless of how old, are relevant to a present day Christian? The obvious example is the Vedas. I would think that all the world's varied religions would be of interest. Surely you're joking. Why would Hindu texts be of importance to a Christian? I'm sure a lot of us have read about the 'religions' that have existed down through the ages but.....they are of academic interest only. We, as Christians, don't regard them as relevant to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 And, playing into your skeptical nature, what are the odds that the Word would survive in written form for over 3,500 years if it was not the real deal?.... I would suggest you not use that argument since there are older traditions and writing from other religions..... Suggest anything you please but.....other than the Torah (basically the Old Testament) what other religious texts or traditions, regardless of how old, are relevant to a present day Christian?.... The obvious example is the Vedas. I would think that all the world's varied religions would be of interest..... Simply And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. Genesis 4:1-2 The Gospel Truth And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Genesis 4:3-7 For Nothing Less Will Do And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; Genesis 4:8-11 See And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish. Deuteronomy 8:19 Yes~! He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36 Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2011 And, playing into your sceptical nature, what are the odds that the Word would survive in written form for over 3,500 years if it was not the real deal? I would suggest you not use that argument since there are older traditions and writing from other religions. Suggest anything you please but.....other than the Torah (basically the Old Testament) what other religious texts or traditions, regardless of how old, are relevant to a present day Christian? The obvious example is the Vedas. I would think that all the world's varied religions would be of interest. Surely you're joking. Why would Hindu texts be of importance to a Christian? I'm sure a lot of us have read about the 'religions' that have existed down through the ages but.....they are of academic interest only. We, as Christians, don't regard them as relevant to anything. Yes, but as a seeker I need some compelling arguments that prove it to be the word of God. Age is not enough, I am afraid. If somebody is already a Christian, then she already believes It to be a word of God. It is a bit like preaching to the choir. The Hindu will tell me the same, symmetrically and tell me that the Bible is not relevant for a Hindu and her books are the true ones. As an outsider, how can I decide? This is where the problem comes in; I have always been a Christian. I have believed as long as I can remember. i'm afraid I don't know how you can know, to your own satisfaction, that the Bible is the truth. I suppose you can consider the worship of cows and eight-limbed goddesses (Hinduism), or a rather corpulent man with a happy face (Buddhism) or an 'allah' that requires you to kill to show your faithfulness and can offer you no assurances as alternatives to Christianity (islam)......or you can choose to believe you were spat out of the mouth of a capricious and random 'Nature' and therefore worship mother Earth (Wicca). Here is where I bow out, not being a theologian or a Bible scholar. You will have to decide for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted January 4, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted January 4, 2011 I suppose you can consider the worship of cows and eight-limbed goddesses (Hinduism), or a rather corpulent man with a happy face (Buddhism) or an 'allah' that requires you to kill to show your faithfulness and can offer you no assurances as alternatives to Christianity (islam)......or you can choose to believe you were spat out of the mouth of a capricious and random 'Nature' and therefore worship mother Earth (Wicca). Here is where I bow out, not being a theologian or a Bible scholar. You will have to decide for yourself. Belittling other religious traditions only reflects poorly on yourself. Oh? Then please point out the statement I made that is belittling (instead of 100% true) about the religions I mentioned. I'll venture that you can't do so. That poor reflection you're seeing? You're looking into a mirror, Sam...... Arrogant atheists are not a new commodity on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I suppose you can consider the worship of cows and eight-limbed goddesses (Hinduism), or a rather corpulent man with a happy face (Buddhism) or an 'allah' that requires you to kill to show your faithfulness and can offer you no assurances as alternatives to Christianity (islam)......or you can choose to believe you were spat out of the mouth of a capricious and random 'Nature' and therefore worship mother Earth (Wicca). Here is where I bow out, not being a theologian or a Bible scholar. You will have to decide for yourself. Belittling other religious traditions only reflects poorly on yourself. She is not belittling other religions. It's just that when someone breaks down what those other beliefs actually claim, it demonstrates even to the most openminded person how ridiculous some of their claims actually are. Being "open-minded" sounds good on the surface so long as we are only talking about the more inocuous teachings of a particular religion, but that open-mindedness changes when we get to the basic core principles of that religion. Even with Christianity. Everybody is cool with "Gentle Jesus, meek and mild." So long as Jesus can be relegated to a little fat baby sitting on Mary's knee, or as He is just a good man with some nice things to say, no one has a problem. However when man is confronted with Jesus who says that He is the only way to God (John 14:6) and that one must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:3) and when they are faced with Jesus, the Sovereign and Lawgiver of the Universe who will judge the living and the dead (Acts 10:42, 2 Tim. 4:1, 1 Pet. 4:5), to whom they are accountable, suddenly "open-mindedness" becomes over-rated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yes, but as a seeker I need some compelling arguments that prove it to be the word of God. Age is not enough, I am afraid. If somebody is already a Christian, then she already believes It to be a word of God. It is a bit like preaching to the choir. The Hindu will tell me the same, symmetrically and tell me that the Bible is not relevant for a Hindu and her books are the true ones. As an outsider, how can I decide? Are you serious about wanting evidence? I can help, but I need to know that you are not just looking for something to mock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Of course. And your question is strange. I ask evidence to some of my scientists friends too, and nobody is afraid that I might mock them. I have no intentions to mock anybody or anything, but even if I would, I do not thing you should be afraid or offended since I have a picture of Christians being very confident in their faith and that things will be settled at the end of time. Being afraid of mocking is a symptom of insecurity or fear of having ones doubts exposed. Well I am not in any danger of you exposing anything, as I have no doubts about what I believe. I am far and away more secure in my faith than you are in your unbelief. Here is the thing. I am not operating from a position of insecurity. I am operating from the position of limited board time and I am not going to waste my time crafting complicated posts and searching for information and trying to answer your questions, if you are not going to take the answers I give seriously. If everything I present is going to be ridiculed and compared to believing in pink unicorns, or summarily dismissed and trampled underfoot, then I am not going to waste my valuable time on you. I am not in any way afraid of mocking. You pose no threat to me and what I believe whatsoever. I will present why we believe, but I am not trying to "prove" anything. I am simply providing the evidence and our rationale. What you do with hat information up to you. I think that a civilized debate is helpful to Christians too so that they can consolidate their faith. Debate is fine and I am more than willing to engage you, but I expect intelligent dialogue an stupid things like "well if God would just create a poka-dotted cat with wings, I would believe in Him" or any other such nonsense. That is the kind of stupidity we have had to deal with in the past, and I will not countenance that garbage in this debate. I am not trying to be harsh; I am just letting you know where the line is drawn. To make it easier, I can start another thread pertaining to why the Bible is Word of God. Would that be acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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