Guest shiloh357 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8) Here is where you err. Paul is explaining why God was justified in choosing Israel. He chose Isaac over Ishamael. He chose Jacob over Esau. Ishamel was not the son of promise but was the result of the fleshly deeds of Abraham. Isaac was the son of promise who became Israel. Ishamael was a seed of Abraham, but He was not the son of promise. The true descendents of Abraham are reckoned through Isaac and Jacob. You are the seed of Abraham by faith, but that does not make you a "Jew." The term "Jew" is never spiritualized to refer to Christians in the Bible. The Bible uses Jacob and Israel interchangably and those terms are NEVER, EVER used to refer to the Church. To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29) That is not a description of a Christian. Christians are not Jews. You are violating the context. Paul is explaining what really means to be a Jew to those Jews who wear their pedigree on their sleeve. Paul's point was that to be truly Jewish, a Jew must be one on the inside to have his hear circumcised (which is not a metaphor for salvation) and to live a life that honors God. That is his only point. You are not now and never will be a Jew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 7, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 7, 2011 If I presumed anything else I would be the one that has erred. The New Testament tells us many things concerning the flesh and bone of Christ, and I would be doing despite to the Scriptures if I said anything else. "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Rom 9:6-8) What, "Know ye not that ye are THE temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1Cor 3:16-17) To say anything else would be anti-semitic. You and I are Jews, for it is written, "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29) It seems obvious to most of us here that you're heading south into Juarez Mexico. Both verses you've quoted from Romans have nothing to do with gentiles becoming jewish OR Israel. They are about Jews, specifically speaking of the remnant of Israel which gentiles are joined to, creating one new man. Not sure why you think that verse from Corinthians is relevant at all? But, brother, here we are off thread again. My question was, "What is not symbolic?" Until we can determine where the journey began, any interpretation you give is going to be in error so I see no point in going all the way to Venezuela with you. One more time. The heading of this string is "interpreting the Book of Revelation" so let's start at the beginning. Is, in the first chapter, the stage not set for us to understand we are being show symbols. Eyes as flames of fire, feet as burnished brass, seven stars, seven candlesticks, etc. or am I still confused? And, again, I apologize for going off thread with Jewish things. If we are to have any understanding of the Book of Revelation do we not need a base line for interpretation, and is not that base line set by the Book itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And, again, I apologize for going off thread with Jewish things. If we are to have any understanding of the Book of Revelation do we not need a base line for interpretation, and is not that base line set by the Book itself? No need to apologize but that was nice of you... Yes, we do need a "base line" for interpretation. That's my point about driving to South America. If you're not even starting until 2/3rds of the way through the journey, the directions given from the beginning won't work. You have to start with the foundation to understand the structure and purpose of the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 And, again, I apologize for going off thread with Jewish things. If we are to have any understanding of the Book of Revelation do we not need a base line for interpretation, and is not that base line set by the Book itself?.... No need to apologize but that was nice of you... Yes, we do need a "base line" for interpretation. That's my point about driving to South America. If you're not even starting until 2/3rds of the way through the journey, the directions given from the beginning won't work. You have to start with the foundation to understand the structure and purpose of the roof..... The Price Paid And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: Hebrews 11:32-39 For This Most Treasured And Holy Book What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. Romans 3:1-2 Can Still Be Seen In Zion But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 1 Peter 2:9 Today for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Deuteronomy 14:2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 12, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2011 And, again, I apologize for going off thread with Jewish things. If we are to have any understanding of the Book of Revelation do we not need a base line for interpretation, and is not that base line set by the Book itself?.... No need to apologize but that was nice of you... Yes, we do need a "base line" for interpretation. That's my point about driving to South America. If you're not even starting until 2/3rds of the way through the journey, the directions given from the beginning won't work. You have to start with the foundation to understand the structure and purpose of the roof..... The base line in Revelation seems to me to be from the ascension of our Lord Jesus going forward, is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 And, again, I apologize for going off thread with Jewish things. If we are to have any understanding of the Book of Revelation do we not need a base line for interpretation, and is not that base line set by the Book itself?.... No need to apologize but that was nice of you... Yes, we do need a "base line" for interpretation. That's my point about driving to South America. If you're not even starting until 2/3rds of the way through the journey, the directions given from the beginning won't work. You have to start with the foundation to understand the structure and purpose of the roof..... The base line in Revelation seems to me to be from the ascension of our Lord Jesus going forward, is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j102 Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 16 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 443 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 24 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 one thing that i try to understand is this- scripture says that no prophecy of scripture is open to private interpretation and in another verse it says you have no need for a teacher because the holy spirit will guide you into all truth. well then why, if you ask 10 diffrent pastors you will almost always get 10 diffrent answers. it looks like the body of Christ isn't in tune with the holy spirit and too opinionated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted January 13, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted January 13, 2011 one thing that i try to understand is this- scripture says that no prophecy of scripture is open to private interpretation and in another verse it says you have no need for a teacher because the holy spirit will guide you into all truth. well then why, if you ask 10 diffrent pastors you will almost always get 10 diffrent answers. it looks like the body of Christ isn't in tune with the holy spirit and too opinionated. It seems we "read" the Word, we "study" the Word, we cast about here and there to see what others "think" about the Word. But, as it is written, "...RECEIVE with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls..." (Jas 1:21) Teachers are definitely a function of the body of Christ, but we as individuals have to read and RECEIVE with submissiveness the Word for it to have any worth. Just as in salvation, we can know OF Jesus, we can believe IN Jesus, but until we actually RECEIVE Jesus He is only alive in our head, not in our heart. Sounds to simple doesn't it, thoughts anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Seek Intimacy Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up. James 4:8-10 Hunger After Him As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. Psalms 42:1 And You Surely Will Know God Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted. Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Matthew 5:3-6 ____________ The base line in Revelation seems to me to be from the ascension of our Lord Jesus going forward, is it not?.... Forward! The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Revelation 1:1 Yes Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 The Base Line Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2 Stretches From The Beginning In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1 And With Each Priceless God Breathed Word All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 Including Brother Job's Story And Those Astonishing Face To Face Revelations And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle. Exodus 33:11 Recorded By Our Dear Beloved Moses The Elder But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodus 20:10-11 On Down Through The Kids Of Jacob He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities. For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him. As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him. For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust. Psalms 103:10-14 Ending With The Glory And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. Revelation 21:22-26 Of Our LORD Jesus The Messiah Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11 And With Us Safely Within Our Father's House And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:3-5 You See Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 ____________ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 one thing that i try to understand is this- scripture says that no prophecy of scripture is open to private interpretation and in another verse it says you have no need for a teacher because the holy spirit will guide you into all truth. well then why, if you ask 10 diffrent pastors you will almost always get 10 diffrent answers. it looks like the body of Christ isn't in tune with the holy spirit and too opinionated. Peter said that no prophecy in Scripture (referring to the OT) was of private interpretation. The Greek word for "interpretation" in this context means "opinion." He clarifies that in the next verse. They did not come through the will of man. The prophecies of old did not come about by the will, imagination, or impulse of the prophets, but they spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance. They were not speaking out of their own minds ("i.e., from someone's individual understanding of events, visions, or other things), but rather, that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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