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Guest shiloh357

Interpreting The Book of Revelation

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I never saw and still don't see an 8th trump. I always saw 8 as symbolic of new beginnings. Seems to me that the 1000 yrs of Christ's reign is where death is finally overcome. It is at the end of it that death is thrown into the lake of fire. I think there will be people born & still dying during that time. I find it interesting that no man in the Old Testament lived to be a 1000. 1000 years is as a day & God told Adam "in the day you eat of of it you shall surely die".

Oops, sorry, got sidetracked. I think after the 1000 yrs we start a new day which will be a first day.

You are right sister, I should have simply said 7 + 1, as I explained in the post in response to Man. The real problem arises when we see that the "last trump" is not included in the "seven" in the Book of Revelation. For as it is written, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1Cor 15:51-52) Coupled with, "For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1Thes 4:15-17)

If it is at the "last trump," and not under any of the "seven trumpets," that the Lord Jesus Himself physically returns, what does that do to much of the picture that has been painted concerning "the coming of the son of man?" I know you are familiar with, "unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ." (Eph 4:13c) Maybe we should consider where this "one" comes in?

Been doing a lot of studying on this topic since I have been following this thread & also thread about the first resurrection.Looks like God is once again adding to and changing some of my understanding.

Here are some things I am seeing, although not entirely clearly.

1. Jesus returns to gather us, dead in Christ first---which I understand at this point to be all saints that have died up to this point and is the first resurrection.

2. during thousand year reign, these saints (risen dead & caught up ones) still don't have "glorified bodies" but walk in the same spiritual place Jesus did during His earthly ministry (are caught up to where He is in Spirit). these caught up ones will not die but live the thousand years thus putting death "under they're feet", conquering death. (this is part I don't understand how it fits with the "perfect man" unless the perfection comes during the thousand years although I still think this happens as we grow into this during the tribulation):noidea:

{ God told Adam in the "day" he ate of the fruit, he would surely die. "A 1000 yrs is as a "day". & death being thrown into lake of fire at end of 1000 yrs(day) seem to be connected here.}

3. There will be people born & dying during 1000 yrs. There will be new believers & unbelievers (or at least people that are again deceived when satan is loosed at the end of 1000 yrs).

4. The GWTJ happens where the rest of the dead are judged, including the believers that died during 1000 yrs.

We enter a new "day" with new heaven & new earth because at this point no place is found for the old anymore.

Would like to say here that I am just getting glimpses at these things and am in no way putting these out as THE truth of the matter. I am still seeking God for answers to the many questions I have on these things and looking to my brothers and sisters out there that may have more insight.

Let's learn and grow together.:emot-hug:

Nothing to say yet about trumpet. Spirit keeps taking me to the 1000 yrs.

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Rev 11:15 - "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."

We can use "His Messiah" also if you wish. We know who our Lord is, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. The question then becomes, "Who is His Christ (Messiah?) This is a question that needs to be answered. Have we not read, "Till we all come...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.?"

Revelation 11 is not hard to understand when we see our Lord as the Father and His Christ as the Son. Even Jesus recognized the Father as my God, placing proper authority on the Father.

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There is much to be said with respect to 7 + 1 in the Scripture if we would but look. And, again 7 + 1 = 8. The "last trump" is not of the seven, therefore it is the eighth trump signaling a NEW BEGINNING.

That is patently untrue...Christ's return happens after the 7th trumpet is blown......

Revelation 11

The Seventh Trumpet

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become

the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

and he will reign for ever and ever."

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,

the One who is and who was,

because you have taken your great power

and have begun to reign.

18 The nations were angry,

and your wrath has come.

The time has come for judging the dead,

and for rewarding your servants the prophets

and your people who revere your name,

both great and small

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There is much to be said with respect to 7 + 1 in the Scripture if we would but look. And, again 7 + 1 = 8. The "last trump" is not of the seven, therefore it is the eighth trump signaling a NEW BEGINNING.

That is patently untrue...Christ's return happens after the 7th trumpet is blown......

Revelation 11

The Seventh Trumpet

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become

the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

and he will reign for ever and ever."

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,

the One who is and who was,

because you have taken your great power

and have begun to reign.

18 The nations were angry,

and your wrath has come.

The time has come for judging the dead,

and for rewarding your servants the prophets

and your people who revere your name,

both great and small—

and for destroying those who destroy the earth."

19 Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

Rev 11:15 - "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."

We can use "His Messiah" also if you wish. We know who our Lord is, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. The question then becomes, "Who is His Christ (Messiah?) This is a question that needs to be answered. Have we not read, "Till we all come...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.?"

Are you asking WHO is the Messiah? :noidea: The Father and the Son are two aspects of the Trinity. There is NO unknown Messiah.

By the Scriptures I am not seeing an unknown Messiah (Christ.) We see it written, "Till we (plural) all come...unto a perfect man (singular,) unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." The Lord Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Mat 24:35) And, "the Scripture cannot be broken." (Jn 10:35)

So, the question then remains, "Where does this perfect man, this one that comes unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ come in? Who has taught us that these Scriptures will not be fulfilled? Again, there is no unknown Christ.

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There is much to be said with respect to 7 + 1 in the Scripture if we would but look. And, again 7 + 1 = 8. The "last trump" is not of the seven, therefore it is the eighth trump signaling a NEW BEGINNING.

That is patently untrue...Christ's return happens after the 7th trumpet is blown......

Revelation 11

The Seventh Trumpet

15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become

the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,

and he will reign for ever and ever."

16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:

"We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,

the One who is and who was,

because you have taken your great power

and have begun to reign.

18 The nations were angry,

and your wrath has come.

The time has come for judging the dead,

and for rewarding your servants the prophets

and your people who revere your name,

both great and small

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Rev 11:15 - "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."

We can use "His Messiah" also if you wish. We know who our Lord is, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. The question then becomes, "Who is His Christ (Messiah?) This is a question that needs to be answered. Have we not read, "Till we all come...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.?"

Are you saying that Jesus is not the Messiah? Or that Jesus the Messiah Himself has a Messiah?

:blink:

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That's It Folks ~ Home....

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:1-5

___________

Revelation 11:15 - "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."

We can use "His Messiah" also if you wish. We know who our Lord is, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ. The question then becomes, "Who is His Christ (Messiah?) This is a question that needs to be answered. Have we not read, "Till we all come...unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.?"

Are you saying that Jesus is not the Messiah? Or that Jesus the Messiah Himself has a Messiah?

:thumbsup:

Father & Son

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6

There Is Only One

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:4-5

See

For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. Isaiah 54:5

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