Sipritual Spoken Jerusalem

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, RevelationWriter. 

 

...

- I don't want to sound ungrateful for your help. But you don't have to quote scriptures for me as if I don't have Bibles which I've read.

Number one, the Covenant of Circumcision was not just of Abraham's son Isaac. 

Number two, Paul spoke of Two Covenants as being symbolic of two women. (And not of the modern day term Abrahamic covenant.)

Which the two covenants Paul spoke about is of the land mass of just Two Cities and not of the 7nations God destroyed giving the children of Israel their lands.

Number three, God also gave Sarah a new name and the same blessing He gave Abraham as being the mother of many nations and kings of peoples coming from her too.

Of which, only Sarah was the mother of Isaac's children. Abraham also being the father of the Gentile nations. Which is what the Covenant of Circumcision is for.  

So forgive me if as I'm failing to see the modern day correlation of an Abrahamic covenant that Paul is suppose to be referring to in Galatians 4. 

 

I only quote Scripture to emphasize the parts to which I am referring. Did you bother to note which parts are highlighted and which parts are underlined? The parts that are highlighted (bold-faced) are contributors to the Abrahamic Covenant. The parts that are underlined are (1) mentions of what God said He would do (I will ...) and (2) the parts that contribute directly to the promise to AVRAHAM (ABRAHAM) regarding his wife Sarah having Yitschaq (Isaac).

Regarding “number one,” the “COVENANT” - God’s PROMISED AGREEMENT - was to Avraham, not to Yitschaq! The “circumcision" was for ALL of Avraham’s male descendants and those within his household. However, the fulfillment of God’s promised agreement passed on to His HEIR, the one to whom the blessing and the inheritance went! That was indeed Yitschaq! While Yishma’el received "A blessing,” “THE Blessing” went to the son of Avraham’s WIFE, not his CONCUBINE! (Contrary to what Islamic people might like to believe, Hagar was NOT a "second wife" to Avraham! She was Sarah’s slave-girl who was given to Avraham ON SARAH'S BEHALF - a CONCUBINE.

A Wikipedia entry says...

Concubinage is an interpersonal relationship in which a person engages in an ongoing sexual relationship with another person to whom they are not or cannot be married to the full extent of the local meaning of marriage. The inability to marry may be due to multiple factors, such as differences in social rank status, an existent marriage, religious prohibitions, professional ones (for example Roman soldiers) or a lack of recognition by appropriate authorities. The woman in such a relationship is referred to as a concubine.

The prevalence of concubinage and the status, rights and expectations of a concubine have varied between cultures, as have the rights of children of a concubine. Whatever the status and rights of the concubine, they were always inferior to those of the wife, and typically neither she nor her children had rights of inheritance. Historically, concubinage was frequently entered into voluntarily (by the woman or her family) as it provided a measure of economic security for the woman involved. Involuntary or servile concubinage sometimes involved sexual slavery of one member of the relationship, usually the woman. Unlike ancient cultures, Christian Europe opposed concubinage, regarding any sexual relations outside of a monogamous marriage as sinful. Nevertheless, sexual relations outside marriage was not uncommon, especially among royalty and nobility, and the woman in such relationships was commonly described as a mistress. However, the children of such relationships were counted as illegitimate and were barred from inheriting the father's title or estates, even when there was an absence of any legitimate heirs.

While various forms of long-term sexual relationships and co-habitation short of marriage have become increasingly common in the Western world, these are generally not described as concubinage. The terms concubinage and concubine are used today primarily when referring to non-marital partnerships of earlier eras. In modern usage, a non-marital domestic relationship is commonly referred to as co-habitation (or similar terms), and the woman in such a relationship is generally referred to as a girlfriend, lover or (life) partner.

Thus, it not only passed on to Yitschaq (Isaac), but also to Ya`aqov/Yisra’el (Jacob/Israel) and then to the tribe of Y’hudah (Judah) as the leading tribe (since Re’uven [Reuben] disgraced his father, and Leviy [Levi] and Shim`own [Simeon] coldly murdered a tribe of people dishonestly), and finally to the kings of Y’hudah beginning with David.

Regarding “number two,” the two women would mean NOTHING without the background of the Abrahamic Covenant. And, that is NOT a “modern day term!"

Exodus 2:23-25

23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.
KJV

Leviticus 26:40-44

40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
KJV

1 Chronicles 16:7-22

7 Then on that day David delivered first this psalm to thank the LORD into the hand of Asaph and his brethren.
8 Give thanks unto the LORD, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people.
9 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works.
10 Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
12 Remember his marvellous works that he hath done, his wonders, and the judgments of his mouth;
13 O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
14 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;
19 When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.
20 And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people;
21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
KJV

Acts 3:24-26

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
KJV

Acts 7:6-8

6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
KJV

Just because YOU don’t read the OT, don’t think that the term has to be some “modern day term!"

Regarding “number three,” I can forgive your ignorance, but I cannot excuse it. You really need to take the time to understand the covenants that God has made with His people! You (and other Christians) need to remember that Paul was PROUD of his heritage, being a child of Israel, one of the children of Israel! He just didn’t TRUST in that heritage!

Philippians 3:3-6

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
KJV

Edited November 1, 2015 by Retrobyter
to include salutation

[RevelationWriter]

Shalom, RevelationWriter. 

 

...

- I don't want to sound ungrateful for your help. But you don't have to quote scriptures for me as if I don't have Bibles which I've read.

Number one, the Covenant of Circumcision was not just of Abraham's son Isaac. 

Number two, Paul spoke of Two Covenants as being symbolic of two women. (And not of the modern day term Abrahamic covenant.)

Which the two covenants Paul spoke about is of the land mass of just Two Cities and not of the 7nations God destroyed giving the children of Israel their lands.

Number three, God also gave Sarah a new name and the same blessing He gave Abraham as being the mother of many nations and kings of peoples coming from her too.

Of which, only Sarah was the mother of Isaac's children. Abraham also being the father of the Gentile nations. Which is what the Covenant of Circumcision is for.  

So forgive me if as I'm failing to see the modern day correlation of an Abrahamic covenant that Paul is suppose to be referring to in Galatians 4. 

 

I only quote Scripture to emphasize the parts to which I am referring. Did you bother to note which parts are highlighted and which parts are underlined? The parts that are highlighted (bold-faced) are contributors to the Abrahamic Covenant. The parts that are underlined are (1) mentions of what God said He would do (I will ...) and (2) the parts that contribute directly to the promise to AVRAHAM (ABRAHAM) regarding his wife Sarah having Yitschaq (Isaac).

Regarding “number one,” the “COVENANT” - God’s PROMISED AGREEMENT - was to Avraham, not to Yitschaq! The “circumcision" was for ALL of Avraham’s male descendants and those within his household. However, the fulfillment of God’s promised agreement passed on to His HEIR, the one to whom the blessing and the inheritance went! That was indeed Yitschaq! While Yishma’el received "A blessing,” “THE Blessing” went to the son of Avraham’s WIFE, not his CONCUBINE! (Contrary to what Islamic people might like to believe, Hagar was NOT a "second wife" to Avraham! She was Sarah’s slave-girl who was given to Avraham ON SARAH'S BEHALF - a CONCUBINE.

A Wikipedia entry says...

Concubinage is an interpersonal relationship in which a person engages in an ongoing sexual relationship with another person to whom they are not or cannot be married to the full extent of the local meaning of marriage. The inability to marry may be due to multiple factors, such as differences in social rank status, an existent marriage, religious prohibitions, professional ones (for example Roman soldiers) or a lack of recognition by appropriate authorities. The woman in such a relationship is referred to as a concubine.

The prevalence of concubinage and the status, rights and expectations of a concubine have varied between cultures, as have the rights of children of a concubine. Whatever the status and rights of the concubine, they were always inferior to those of the wife, and typically neither she nor her children had rights of inheritance. Historically, concubinage was frequently entered into voluntarily (by the woman or her family) as it provided a measure of economic security for the woman involved. Involuntary or servile concubinage sometimes involved sexual slavery of one member of the relationship, usually the woman. Unlike ancient cultures, Christian Europe opposed concubinage, regarding any sexual relations outside of a monogamous marriage as sinful. Nevertheless, sexual relations outside marriage was not uncommon, especially among royalty and nobility, and the woman in such relationships was commonly described as a mistress. However, the children of such relationships were counted as illegitimate and were barred from inheriting the father's title or estates, even when there was an absence of any legitimate heirs.

While various forms of long-term sexual relationships and co-habitation short of marriage have become increasingly common in the Western world, these are generally not described as concubinage. The terms concubinage and concubine are used today primarily when referring to non-marital partnerships of earlier eras. In modern usage, a non-marital domestic relationship is commonly referred to as co-habitation (or similar terms), and the woman in such a relationship is generally referred to as a girlfriend, lover or (life) partner.

Thus, it not only passed on to Yitschaq (Isaac), but also to Ya`aqov/Yisra’el (Jacob/Israel) and then to the tribe of Y’hudah (Judah) as the leading tribe (since Re’uven [Reuben] disgraced his father, and Leviy [Levi] and Shim`own [Simeon] coldly murdered a tribe of people dishonestly), and finally to the kings of Y’hudah beginning with David.

Regarding “number two,” the two women would mean NOTHING without the background of the Abrahamic Covenant. And, that is NOT a “modern day term!"

Exodus 2:23-25

23 And it came to pass in process of time, that the king of Egypt died: and the children of Israel sighed by reason of the bondage, and they cried, and their cry came up unto God by reason of the bondage.
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them.
KJV

Leviticus 26:40-44

40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.
43 The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
KJV

1 Chronicles 16:7-22

7 Then on that day David delivered first this psalm to thank the LORD into the hand of Asaph and his brethren.
8 Give thanks unto the LORD, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people.
9 Sing unto him, sing psalms unto him, talk ye of all his wondrous works.
10 Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
11 Seek the LORD and his strength, seek his face continually.
12 Remember his marvellous works that he hath done, his wonders, and the judgments of his mouth;
13 O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
14 He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
18 Saying, Unto thee will I give the land of Canaan, the lot of your inheritance;
19 When ye were but few, even a few, and strangers in it.
20 And when they went from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another people;
21 He suffered no man to do them wrong: yea, he reproved kings for their sakes,
22 Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm.
KJV

Acts 3:24-26

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
KJV

Acts 7:6-8

6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat them evil four hundred years.
7 And the nation to whom they shall be in bondage will I judge, said God: and after that shall they come forth, and serve me in this place.
8 And he gave him the covenant of circumcision: and so Abraham begat Isaac, and circumcised him the eighth day; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat the twelve patriarchs.
KJV

Just because YOU don’t read the OT, don’t think that the term has to be some “modern day term!"

Regarding “number three,” I can forgive your ignorance, but I cannot excuse it. You really need to take the time to understand the covenants that God has made with His people! You (and other Christians) need to remember that Paul was PROUD of his heritage, being a child of Israel, one of the children of Israel! He just didn’t TRUST in that heritage!

Philippians 3:3-6

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
KJ

[RevelationWriter]

- Paul was talking of 2 Jerusalem's, 2 Women, 2 Covenants. - Gal.4

Of which God said by His Own Oath that He entered into a Covenant with Jerusalem to make her His (wife, w/children). - Ez.16:8, 21, 36, 45

As Paul gives the prophetic scriptures of 2 Jerusalem's in Is.54:1 ,5,

1st. New Jerusalem 'above' is told by God that she will,

"Sing Oh Barren Who Never Bore A Child, Burst Into Song and Shout For Joy You Who Never Bore In Labor. For The Children Of The Desolate (new Jerusalem) Will Be More, Than She Who Is Married (Jerusalem)..."

God said He has a Covenant Of Marriage - Ez.16 and a Covenant Of Peace Is.54:10 with Jerusalem. 

 

[Ezra]

It seems like we have a mishmash of ideas in this thread.  There is nothing known as "Prophecy Jerusalem". New Jerusalem is a heavenly city, whereas Jerusalem on earth is (and will remain) an earthly city. Jerusalem at present is not what it will be in the future after the Second Coming of Christ.  But the existence of the New Jerusalem does not cancel the existence of Jerusalem on earth. When the two Jerusalems are used allegorically, it is to contrast the Old Covenant with the New Covenant.