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Comparing America and Israel?


psalmone

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Israel is regarded and defended by the USA (at least up to the present time) because they are shown in the Bible to be God's earthly people forever. Christians regret and lament the fact that Israel has rejected their Messiah ---the Lord Jesus Christ, but that is between them and God. God states that in a day to come (at the end of the Tribulation period) He will restore that people as a nation and they will have the rule over Gentiles. Of course, the Atheists and other carnal Christians know nothing of this and reject the Bible, but that is the truth of biblical prophecy.

- Seriousseeker

Those that are in the land of Israel today are not all Israel, I know this is a hot topic and everyone thinks that small amount of people are Gods chosen, but the fact remains God's Israel are scattered all over the world and not just sitting in that small piece of land right now. Those that sit there today are Judah their captivity or judgment is over and they are now living there mostly in apostacy where one day they will cry out to Him. When the Messiah comes He will have His angels gather all of His from all four corners of the world and we will be taken to Jerusalem to be with Him forever and we will rule with Him. We need to quit thinking of the people in the nation of Israel as Israel that God calls His own they are not all Israel.

Some of Israel may be yet scattered across the world,

but I learned a technicality the other day

of how God said He'd bring them back "first"

and then begin to cleanse them from their sinfulness

based on Ezekiel 36:24-26

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Just that, we're significantly to esteem, that which is gathered in Israel.

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Israel is regarded and defended by the USA (at least up to the present time) because they are shown in the Bible to be God's earthly people forever. Christians regret and lament the fact that Israel has rejected their Messiah ---the Lord Jesus Christ, but that is between them and God. God states that in a day to come (at the end of the Tribulation period) He will restore that people as a nation and they will have the rule over Gentiles. Of course, the Atheists and other carnal Christians know nothing of this and reject the Bible, but that is the truth of biblical prophecy.

- Seriousseeker

Those that are in the land of Israel today are not all Israel, I know this is a hot topic and everyone thinks that small amount of people are Gods chosen, but the fact remains God's Israel are scattered all over the world and not just sitting in that small piece of land right now. Those that sit there today are Judah their captivity or judgment is over and they are now living there mostly in apostacy where one day they will cry out to Him. When the Messiah comes He will have His angels gather all of His from all four corners of the world and we will be taken to Jerusalem to be with Him forever and we will rule with Him. We need to quit thinking of the people in the nation of Israel as Israel that God calls His own they are not all Israel.

Some of Israel may be yet scattered across the world,

but I learned a technicality the other day

of how God said He'd bring them back "first"

and then begin to cleanse them from their sinfulness

based on Ezekiel 36:24-26

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Just that, we're significantly to esteem, that which is gathered in Israel.

Judah would return to the land first in unbelief of the Messiah and at the end of the age God would gather the scattered of Israel rejoining the two. Eze. here is speaking of the renewed covenant with Judah and Israel where He will write the laws on our hearts, its not complete yet but will be when He returns. You see I see a difference in Judah and Israel, just as the bible describes, the two 'houses' were never reunited, sure there was and probably is some of Israel mixed in with Judah right now but it is God that brings them together at His return. I see the believers in the world as Israel, there is no gentile covenant can't find a covenant of forgiveness of sins or eternal life apart from being grafted into those God calls His own and over and over again God calls His own Israel.

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Guest shiloh357
shiloh357, on 28 January 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

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I find its just too bad that they have put Ephraim into one country when God says that whoever believes in Him, keeps His commmandments and has the faith and testimony of the Messiah is Israel, His firstborn and who He will come and take for Himself.

Uh, the Bible doesn't say that.

Doesn't say what?

The Bible does not say that God says that "whoever believes in Him and keeps His commandments and has the fai and testimony of the Messiah is Israel."

Israel is the 12 twelve tribes descended from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. "Israel" is not a spritual term the Bible applies to believers. It ONLY EVER refers to a physical nation. The name "Israel" is used 71 times in the NT and is never applied to believers.

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Israel is regarded and defended by the USA (at least up to the present time) because they are shown in the Bible to be God's earthly people forever. Christians regret and lament the fact that Israel has rejected their Messiah ---the Lord Jesus Christ, but that is between them and God. God states that in a day to come (at the end of the Tribulation period) He will restore that people as a nation and they will have the rule over Gentiles. Of course, the Atheists and other carnal Christians know nothing of this and reject the Bible, but that is the truth of biblical prophecy.

- Seriousseeker

Those that are in the land of Israel today are not all Israel, I know this is a hot topic and everyone thinks that small amount of people are Gods chosen, but the fact remains God's Israel are scattered all over the world and not just sitting in that small piece of land right now. Those that sit there today are Judah their captivity or judgment is over and they are now living there mostly in apostacy where one day they will cry out to Him. When the Messiah comes He will have His angels gather all of His from all four corners of the world and we will be taken to Jerusalem to be with Him forever and we will rule with Him. We need to quit thinking of the people in the nation of Israel as Israel that God calls His own they are not all Israel.

Some of Israel may be yet scattered across the world,

but I learned a technicality the other day

of how God said He'd bring them back "first"

and then begin to cleanse them from their sinfulness

based on Ezekiel 36:24-26

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Just that, we're significantly to esteem, that which is gathered in Israel.

Judah would return to the land first in unbelief of the Messiah and at the end of the age God would gather the scattered of Israel rejoining the two. Eze. here is speaking of the renewed covenant with Judah and Israel where He will write the laws on our hearts, its not complete yet but will be when He returns. You see I see a difference in Judah and Israel, just as the bible describes, the two 'houses' were never reunited, sure there was and probably is some of Israel mixed in with Judah right now but it is God that brings them together at His return. I see the believers in the world as Israel, there is no gentile covenant can't find a covenant of forgiveness of sins or eternal life apart from being grafted into those God calls His own and over and over again God calls His own Israel.

Gentile believers are not Israel

this is a mistake some make.

God recognises the historical process Israel has been put through

and will not have them robbed of that credit.

These are called "the Israel of God" (who have and will receive Messiah).

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

This is why Messianic Jews consider themselves a seperate work

as Messiah means more to them than to gentile Christian(if I could say that for emphasis)

as being the culmination of a historic process,

(we gentiles don't have that same claim).

This, God particularly values

and calls them the "Israel of God".

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shiloh357, on 28 January 2011 - 02:03 PM, said:

Quote

I find its just too bad that they have put Ephraim into one country when God says that whoever believes in Him, keeps His commmandments and has the faith and testimony of the Messiah is Israel, His firstborn and who He will come and take for Himself.

Uh, the Bible doesn't say that.

Doesn't say what?

The Bible does not say that God says that "whoever believes in Him and keeps His commandments and has the fai and testimony of the Messiah is Israel."

Israel is the 12 twelve tribes descended from Abraham through Isaac and Jacob. "Israel" is not a spritual term the Bible applies to believers. It ONLY EVER refers to a physical nation. The name "Israel" is used 71 times in the NT and is never applied to believers.

Shiloh I completely understand your views and opinions but doesn't God Himself call His own Israel? What does God call those who believe in Him, sons of God to be sure but what else? What are the gentiles grafted into but the covenant and we see that covenant that all claim to be in is only made to Judah and Israel? Where is a separate covenant with a gentile church? If I remember right, and I certainly could be wrong, but is it your thoughts that all of the scattered 10 were brought back after their dispersion? I believe that when the Ephraim and Manasseh received their inheritance it was Ephraim that would end up the 'fullness of the gentiles' and that it would be Yeshua would gather then at the end of the age? Israel are the believers, gentiles grafted into the body that already existed, Yeshua didn't come but for the lost of Israel, His words not mine and that Judah, Israel would be brought to jealousy when they saw the gentiles coming into them. God does not have 3 groups of people and according to the outlines of the new covenant all who are in it belongs to Judah or Israel, there is no gentile church that shows up at the end of the age. If you have God calling Israel His, His firstborn, His children, their Shepard how can Israel not be His, God does not call any others His.

So if you have a group called Israel, then a group called the church and a group called Judah whose are His? all of them by the one name God gave all of His own. And we are told many places that those who enter into the kingdom are those who 'keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Yeshua', correct? Who keeps the commandments today, not many most I read believe that Yeshua fulfilled everything, nailed it all to the cross and no more do we need to walk in His instructions, I myself do not believe that at all. What is the Messiahs testimony, many things! but looking at the word itself one of the words translated that may have been used to translate from hebrew to greek is moed, His set apart times, Yeshua kept everyone why if He did do we not? If we are to have His testimony to me it makes a bit of sense to do the things that the Messiah did, that bit about walking in His ways comes to mind. But I am sorry for going on I usually never write such long posts.

On a personal note I believe the Ephraim/Israel is made of up of those mostly in the churches, and if what I have been witnessing the last few years of those coming out of mainstreams wondering what happened to the simple complete truth of scripture, those who are embracing Gods called out days gathering together to fellowship and assemble with one another then perhaps the fullness of the gentiles may be coming to and end.

But Shiloh I am not going to debate you and most likely will not engage you on this topic I have seen what happens to those who disagree with you and I just don't want that kind of 'discussion'.

shlaom,

Mizz

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Israel is regarded and defended by the USA (at least up to the present time) because they are shown in the Bible to be God's earthly people forever. Christians regret and lament the fact that Israel has rejected their Messiah ---the Lord Jesus Christ, but that is between them and God. God states that in a day to come (at the end of the Tribulation period) He will restore that people as a nation and they will have the rule over Gentiles. Of course, the Atheists and other carnal Christians know nothing of this and reject the Bible, but that is the truth of biblical prophecy.

- Seriousseeker

Those that are in the land of Israel today are not all Israel, I know this is a hot topic and everyone thinks that small amount of people are Gods chosen, but the fact remains God's Israel are scattered all over the world and not just sitting in that small piece of land right now. Those that sit there today are Judah their captivity or judgment is over and they are now living there mostly in apostacy where one day they will cry out to Him. When the Messiah comes He will have His angels gather all of His from all four corners of the world and we will be taken to Jerusalem to be with Him forever and we will rule with Him. We need to quit thinking of the people in the nation of Israel as Israel that God calls His own they are not all Israel.

Some of Israel may be yet scattered across the world,

but I learned a technicality the other day

of how God said He'd bring them back "first"

and then begin to cleanse them from their sinfulness

based on Ezekiel 36:24-26

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Just that, we're significantly to esteem, that which is gathered in Israel.

Judah would return to the land first in unbelief of the Messiah and at the end of the age God would gather the scattered of Israel rejoining the two. Eze. here is speaking of the renewed covenant with Judah and Israel where He will write the laws on our hearts, its not complete yet but will be when He returns. You see I see a difference in Judah and Israel, just as the bible describes, the two 'houses' were never reunited, sure there was and probably is some of Israel mixed in with Judah right now but it is God that brings them together at His return. I see the believers in the world as Israel, there is no gentile covenant can't find a covenant of forgiveness of sins or eternal life apart from being grafted into those God calls His own and over and over again God calls His own Israel.

Gentile believers are not Israel

this is a mistake some make.

God recognises the historical process Israel has been put through

and will not have them robbed of that credit.

These are called "the Israel of God" (who have and will receive Messiah).

Gal 6:16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

This is why Messianic Jews consider themselves a seperate work

as Messiah means more to them than to gentile Christian(if I could say that for emphasis)

as being the culmination of a historic process,

(we gentiles don't have that same claim).

This, God particularly values

and calls them the "Israel of God".

Then by your reckoning God has more than one group of kids. Where is the covenant with the gentiles? In the new covenant that all christainty claims is theres are you Judah or Israel? Where does the gentiles get grafted into? they are grafted into an already existing called out one. We need to separate the people in the land today from Israel they are Judah and most will tell you that, many of the rabbis I speak with will tell you they are still looking for Israel today and they do believe Israel is scattered in the nations just as God said He would do. I know so many 'Messianic Jews' that only want the gentiles to know God and His Messiah most are such wonderful and joyous people who wouldn't want to be around them? God calls all His children Israel nothing ethnic or genetic about it. All must come to the knowledge that Yeshua is the Messiah, Jew, gentile whoever it may be only through the Messiah are we in the covenant with Him He is the only way to eternal life.

Gal. 6: 12-13 'As many desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumsised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Messiah. For even those who are circumised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumised that they may boast in your flesh.' Its not the letter of the law that we follow but the Spirit that guides one with the knowledge and wisdom of His instructions.

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