ted Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Possibly, LadyC, the wrong words to describe the situation were used. In another way, I don't believe God gives us Salvation based on our trust in Jesus and then, because we may fall in sin at times, takes it right back again. I believe He wants us to be secure in Christ. Secure then, in our trust in Him. To not have that feeling or to be unsure if our trust in Christ's redemptive role is enough, to me, would be confusion. God, as we know, is not he author of confusion. Let me also say that I posted that with out reading any other post in this thread. This may sound dumb at first glance, but you and I and many others have been through threads like this many times before. Most posts fall in the same two or three categories and that is why I didn't bother to go through it all again. It was not in response to anyone's post or specific words. Hence, it didn't imply that someone said those words. They were my words to describe the situation. I sometimes come off the wrong way. Sorry, no bad intention was implied. I'm Saved, but yet, not perfect. You are right in that each side could toss verses around all night and never come to a common understanding. I just think that trusting in Jesus is God's implication here. To be unsure of that would imply to me that I might have something to do with it. That, would put me in a quandary as to what, exactly I would have to add to His work and in what time frame. No, I believe I will rest in His Words through out the Bible and trust in Him, follow Him as much as humanly possible, and rest assured that, when I die, I can trust that I will join Him in Heaven. In Him with Love in the Same, t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 ted, i promise i wasn't holding it against you. i know you're a good guy, and you're right, these threads do tend to be repetitive. you might be surprised though to read through this one. it's had a degree of civility that is almost always lacking. that being said, there is no insecurity in not believing the OSAS doctrine. to the contrary, i am far more secure now that i no longer believe that. also, and let me quote so i don't misquote... In another way, I don't believe God gives us Salvation based on our trust in Jesus and then, because we may fall in sin at times, takes it right back again. nor do we. that's not at all what we're trying to get across. God doesn't take anything away from us, and certainly not because we may fall into sin. we do believe that scripture is very clear that we can make a concious choice to turn our back on Him, actually rejecting the gift He gave. that's not because we backslid, backsliding is totally different as my previous posts have pointed out. we're talking about an actual apostacy... a decision that we no longer want anything to do with God. God takes nothing from people who do that... but they remove themselves. i used the illustration earlier of a child who emancipates themselves from their parents... they lose their right to their inheritance. when a christian decides they don't want any part of christianity anymore, doing so with full knowledge and understanding of what they're doing, they forfiet their right to inherit the kingdom of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 WIP, a big to you too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 God takes nothing from people who do that... but they remove themselves. i used the illustration earlier of a child who emancipates themselves from their parents... they lose their right to their inheritance. when a christian decides they don't want any part of christianity anymore, doing so with full knowledge and understanding of what they're doing, they forfiet their right to inherit the kingdom of God. In all due respect Christie, I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted September 8, 2004 John, the Bible-thumping-preacher-guy graphic is killin' me here buddy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted September 8, 2004 John, the Bible-thumping-preacher-guy graphic is killin' me here buddy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted September 8, 2004 I had this debate summarized to me once like this. (not my original words and I'm paraphrasing); "Basically, those secure in their Salvation and those that feel it can be lost or given back, are all pretty much the same. If we put our trust in Christ and accept him as our Savior, the war is over. Now it's time to fight the battles." It puts an interesting light on the subject. Regardless of our personal opinions or beliefs, God has implemented His plan. There are many things yet, in the Bible, I can't, for now, grasp. But, regardless, if we put our trust in Him, it is finished. We have won because we chose to trust in Christ, and now that decision will be attacked at all fronts from the world and the ruler of it. Now, the battles start. The world will attack everything the Bible says. It will water it down, stomp on it, hide it, toss it to the side through laws and deceit. It will send it's most "intelligent" agents to debunk everything the Bible says. Once a person accepts Christ, his eternity is secure. He can no more turn his back on God, then can a son disclaim the DNA of his natural father. A natural son may turn his back on his father, but he can never escape the fact that the fathers blood runs through his veins. Ok, I'm getting to bed. I gotta get up at 4:00 am so I have to go. I'll check in tomorrow or shoot me a PM if you want to continue tomorrow. I love you in Christ and believe, in Christ, that all things work for His good. Have a good night, Sister. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 8, 2004 So god saves us because we can't. Then he puts us in charge of our salvation maintenance? Is God's standard perfection or not. Is every thought and deed you and I do sinless now? No thought sins? Really? Just one can keep you out of heaven. Are we saved by grace until we break the law? Wouldn't this suggest that we must keep the law to be saved? What happened to Roman 6:14 -17? Were we delivered or did we deliver ourselves? Please don't tell me that we accidently sin. We know good and well what were doing most of the time when we sin. Perhaps right now! You are thinking hateful thoughts towards me because I may reject your doctrine. (thats OK by the way because I'm guilty of that one too).If you can lose it, dosen't it really come down to your own ability to keep it. "Let no man boast". If you claim to keep the law enough to maintain God's grace than you certainly have something to boast about. I on the other hand will never be strong enough to pull that off. So with the heart of a beggar I beg for God's mercy and believe he will be merciful out of love alone. I don't want to "want to sin" but sometimes I still want to. Any of you ever still want to even though you don't want to "want to"? I suppose I might of stirred the pot some and if those of you who think you can lose your salvation want to let me have it then thats fair. This is a worthy topic. I'm willing to listen and learn even if I get beat up a little. Also, I'm not saying that sin dose not have consequences. Actually I think you can ruin your life on this earth with it. I just don't believe that you can be saved by grace and then lose it. I'm not Southern Baptist , I'm a Nazarene. My own denomination thinks I'm wrong. I just see it as Grace or Law. To me, Grace is a revolutionary concept that makes Christianity different than all other world religions that have rule books with score cards. Just lay it at the cross and be thankful. That to me is what makes the Grace "Amazing". OSAS Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LCPGUY Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 God bless you Dan! We are either saved by keeping the Law, or by the GRACE of God. As for me, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 God takes nothing from people who do that... but they remove themselves. i used the illustration earlier of a child who emancipates themselves from their parents... they lose their right to their inheritance. when a christian decides they don't want any part of christianity anymore, doing so with full knowledge and understanding of what they're doing, they forfiet their right to inherit the kingdom of God. In all due respect Christie, I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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