ted Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Since im not Christian, in my world, there is no Heaven and Hell. So the threat of me going to Hell is very minimal. The threat of you going to hell is very real. Your belief of that may be minimal, though. Trust God. Nothing of this world is by accidental chance. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleladyinblack Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Seeker * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 121 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/09/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/28/1986 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Since im not Christian, in my world, there is no Heaven and Hell. So the threat of me going to Hell is very minimal. The threat of you going to hell is very real. Your belief of that may be minimal, though. Trust God. Nothing of this world is by accidental chance. t. Thats only your belief my dear. Everyone seems to have their own idea of where im going. Christians think im going to Heaven or Hell, Buddhists think im going to be reincarnated... theres also Nirvana, space and nothingness. So apparently my own belief doesnt count :-) Chazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Since im not Christian, in my world, there is no Heaven and Hell. So the threat of me going to Hell is very minimal. The threat of you going to hell is very real. Your belief of that may be minimal, though. Trust God. Nothing of this world is by accidental chance. t. Amen Ted.... hmm.....the thought of going to hell is scarey. I can't imagine that final hour-- as an unbeliever -- when Christ comes again! "One day every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is King of kings and Lord of Lords." By that time-- the truth will be known to all, and it will be too late for the unbeliever. Blessings~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 8, 2004 OK folks! I am the one who said "LET IT GO". I was really just refering to me. Of course I don't want to stop someone's participation in this topic. I just don't want to make enemies with the good folks who believe you can lose your salvation. And I said let it go for now. "Now" has been long enough I guess. I have heard good biblical arguements on both sides of this issue. No one has yet to explain to me how human law keeping and grace alone can both be factors in salvation. If you can lose it then that means you have to keep the law. There is no way around it. Which is it, Law or Grace? If Grace is conditional than we need to quit singing Amazing Grace because there is nothing amazing about grace that is conditional. Even I can pull that off.(conditional grace) What are we believing in here? Our ability to keep the law or Jesus's sacrifice for our sins? Past, Present and Future? It can't be both. For those who believe you can lose it, how well are you keeping the law? I stink at it sometimes. I wish it weren't so but it's the truth. Dan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 Since im not Christian, in my world, there is no Heaven and Hell. So the threat of me going to Hell is very minimal. The threat of you going to hell is very real. Your belief of that may be minimal, though. Trust God. Nothing of this world is by accidental chance. t. Thats only your belief my dear. Everyone seems to have their own idea of where im going. Christians think im going to Heaven or Hell, Buddhists think im going to be reincarnated... theres also Nirvana, space and nothingness. So apparently my own belief doesnt count :-) Chazy. chazy, your opinion counts as much as anybodys... and when it boils down to it, none of our opinions count very much, because they can't change reality... whatever reality will be. the fact that you're still open to the possibility of God indicates to me that you're not without chance... supported by the fact that you are here... and you do seem open, at least at times! i, for one, am very glad you are here. not just because i believe God is working on you, but because you seem to be a very intelligent lady... and just a pretty neat person, too! and i say that despite the fact that there are obvious differences in opinion on several issues! you're a joy to have around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted September 8, 2004 Share Posted September 8, 2004 OK folks! I am the one who said "LET IT GO". I was really just refering to me. Of course I don't want to stop someone's participation in this topic. I just don't want to make enemies with the good folks who believe you can lose your salvation. And I said let it go for now. "Now" has been long enough I guess. I have heard good biblical arguements on both sides of this issue. No one has yet to explain to me how human law keeping and grace alone can both be factors in salvation. If you can lose it then that means you have to keep the law. There is no way around it. Which is it, Law or Grace? If Grace is conditional than we need to quit singing Amazing Grace because there is nothing amazing about grace that is conditional. Even I can pull that off.(conditional grace) What are we believing in here? Our ability to keep the law or Jesus's sacrifice for our sins? Past, Present and Future? It can't be both. For those who believe you can lose it, how well are you keeping the law? I stink at it sometimes. I wish it weren't so but it's the truth. Dan.... no it doesn't. it means continuing to have a willingness, a desire, to be a part of God's family. that's not law, that's not even works. it doesn't reflect a lack of grace, either. God's grace is there, and He doesn't take it away. but He won't FORCE it upon us. many here have stated that being in a perpetual state of acceptance of the gift is a "work"... well no more so than the initial acceptance of salvation was a work! if one thinks accepting is a "work", then one must think that there is no other way to salvation. we who disagree with OSAS do not consider accepting something a "work". it's a "want"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted September 8, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted September 8, 2004 chazy, your opinion counts as much as anybodys... and when it boils down to it, none of our opinions count very much, because they can't change reality... whatever reality will be. the fact that you're still open to the possibility of God indicates to me that you're not without chance... supported by the fact that you are here... and you do seem open, at least at times! i, for one, am very glad you are here. not just because i believe God is working on you, but because you seem to be a very intelligent lady... and just a pretty neat person, too! and i say that despite the fact that there are obvious differences in opinion on several issues! you're a joy to have around here. Amen, LadyC. Just the words I was looking for. Chazy, your opinion is what matters most to God in your life. Mine can't do anything for you except show you in words how I feel or think about a subject. It's your heart that God is after, and only you can make that decision. Bless you, t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgolvach Posted September 9, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 110 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,254 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 6 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/28/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2004 I continue to want to be part of God's family. I can't see that ever changing. I also have many areas in my life that don't measure up to God's standard and they are not easy to just change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 9, 2004 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Salvation is based upon the Abrahamic Covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant was cut in Genesis 15. God had Abraham prepare the animals and the blood for the Covenant. The animals used incidentally in the Abrahamic Covenant in Gen. 15, are the same as were used in the sacricial system later and all of them pointed to Jesus. It was customary for the two covenant partners to walk together between the halves of the slaughtered animals and proclaim the oaths of the covenant. God did something strange though... He put Abraham to sleep. While sleeping Abraham saw two things: A smoking furnace and burning lamp passing between the halves. He saw smoke and fire, God and His Son Jesus walking between the halves making the Covenant!! The Abramaic Covenant was not cut with Abraham, but rather Abraham just prepared the animals. God and Jesus made the Covenant with one another. God and Jesus were the only ones obligated. The Abrahamic Covenant did not depend upon Abraham's behavior or what he did or did not do. All Abraham had to do was recieve it by faith, and he did. God chose the most powerful covenant in Abraham's culture to express how serious He was about fulfilling His promises. Abraham knew that God was serious and that there was NO backing out once God had obligated Himself. God had made a promise that He could not break. This is an unbreakable Covenant. The only way out was if one or both Covenant partners die. Well, Jesus and God are not dead and will never be dead, so as long as they are alive His promises to Abraham live as well. The Covenant is as real today as it was 5,000 years ago. We who are of faith, are living testimonies to faithfulness of God to His Word. You did not get in this Covenant because you are good enough, and you will not get out of it because you sinned bad enough. Your goods works cannot save you, and therefore, they cannot unsave you. Before you were saved, you were not going to hell because of you did, you were going to hell becaue of what you were. Your deeds had nothing to do with it. God did not deliver you from your sins, He delivered you from SIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryt Posted September 9, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 52 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,230 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 124 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/22/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/03/1952 Share Posted September 9, 2004 Salvation is based upon the Abrahamic Covenant. The Abrahamic Covenant was cut in Genesis 15. God had Abraham prepare the animals and the blood for the Covenant. The animals used incidentally in the Abrahamic Covenant in Gen. 15, are the same as were used in the sacricial system later and all of them pointed to Jesus. It was customary for the two covenant partners to walk together between the halves of the slaughtered animals and proclaim the oaths of the covenant. God did something strange though... He put Abraham to sleep. While sleeping Abraham saw two things: A smoking furnace and burning lamp passing between the halves. He saw smoke and fire, God and His Son Jesus walking between the halves making the Covenant!! The Abramaic Covenant was not cut with Abraham, but rather Abraham just prepared the animals. God and Jesus made the Covenant with one another. God and Jesus were the only ones obligated. The Abrahamic Covenant did not depend upon Abraham's behavior or what he did or did not do. All Abraham had to do was recieve it by faith, and he did. God chose the most powerful covenant in Abraham's culture to express how serious He was about fulfilling His promises. Abraham knew that God was serious and that there was NO backing out once God had obligated Himself. God had made a promise that He could not break. This is an unbreakable Covenant. The only way out was if one or both Covenant partners die. Well, Jesus and God are not dead and will never be dead, so as long as they are alive His promises to Abraham live as well. The Covenant is as real today as it was 5,000 years ago. We who are of faith, are living testimonies to faithfulness of God to His Word. You did not get in this Covenant because you are good enough, and you will not get out of it because you sinned bad enough. Your goods works cannot save you, and therefore, they cannot unsave you. Before you were saved, you were not going to hell because of you did, you were going to hell becaue of what you were. Your deeds had nothing to do with it. God did not deliver you from your sins, He delivered you from SIN. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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