TXDisciple Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 14 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/12/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 Hello Everyone, I too am one who does not belong to any particular denomination and never will. That does not mean that I never have fellowship with other believers and it also does not mean that I never pass through the doors of a church of a particular denomination. However, I could never sign the dotted line of a denominational church membership. While denominational church doctrines do not change frequently, when they do it's almost always for the worse and in some cases, they are changed for blasphemous reasons. God's Word never changes and neither should our core beliefs whether from an individual standpoint or collectively from church doctrine. So to answer the original question and to be completely honest, fellowship with other believers is a rarity for me......not something to be proud of.Regards, Jay Pity about that. If everyone thought the same way we would not be talking on these boards right now. We would be insular, divided, and the kingdom would have stagnated. Ever read Paul's letters to the churches? And yet, here I am participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 Wonder how they managed for the first, oh say 250 years of the Church without all the man made names? It was just the assembly at this place or that, but amazingly it seems those who were born again did manage to fellowship. These businesses that have come into existence in the last 600 years did not come forth from the Mind of God, but, from the mind of man. they did have manmade names. who do you think made up the names of the cities they were connected to? The letters were addressed to the assemblies that were in a particular city, the assembly itself did not have the name of that city or location. But, why do we defend this or that position without doing our own homework before the Lord to discover what is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Time out for a diversion. This debate is reminding me of a song: "Denomination Demolition" Home-made video with lyrics - or if you prefer the official video - which is a bit humorous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdktlk Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 282 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 Here is something that has to do with the myriad of NAMES that the body of Christ has as recorded in Revelation 16:13-14. Verse 13 - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet Again: "...And I saw proceed out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet/religious imposter three foul spirits, like unto frogs..." This is the literal way in which this verse is written in the Greek. It is important to put it in its proper order as the three foul spirits, like unto frogs are a direct tie-in to verse fourteen. Frogs point to unclean; were part of the judgment of God upon Egypt, and they came forth from waters turned to blood. (Ref: Exo 7:15-25; 8:1-6) We have seen the Dragon go after the beautiful woman (Rev 12:15, 16) and cast out of his mouth water as a flood. That water was, of course, bloody water. Because of the historical time frame covered in Revelation chapter twelve there did not, at that time, exist a resurrected head beast, that is the fourth manifestation of the Church, the Church in Thyatira, or an image to that beast. Note: the image of the beast is the false prophet, a religious imposter. So, that being the case, there was only the Dragon, and those individuals whom he could entice, to cast out the foul water. Here we see, in this historical time frame, that the Dragon has brought into existence both the beast and the image of the beast. Therefore, these frogs, these unclean spirits, proceed out of the mouth of all three. And, "...The great dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan..." (Rev 12:9) is the originator of this event. Verse 14 - For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty Again: "...As they are spirits of demons, making signs, which project over the kings/kingdoms of the earth/earthy, even the entire habitable globe, to assemble them, until that great warfare period of God Almighty..." "...As they are spirits of demons, making signs, which project over the kings/kingdoms of the earth/earthy, even the entire habitable globe, to assemble them..." These foul spirits have a to the point assignment. They are to cause signs to be made which project over, or above, the kings, the kingdoms, of the three, of the earth/earthy, manifestations of the Church for a very specific purpose. These signs, by instigation of these unclean spirits, are every where upon the habitable globe, and they accomplish exactly what the unclean spirits desire them to do. And, that is to cause the three, of the earth/earthy, to assemble under them. This assembly is not in one specific place on the globe, it is all over the globe. "...until that great warfare period of God Almighty..." These signs will remain and these assemblies will continue, UNTIL the time when The Lord God Almighty brings them to naught. These signs are everywhere, they are all over the planet, and they are not hidden, if we have eyes to see they are easily recognizable. These signs were caused to come into existence by these foul sign making demons, as they inspired the carnal minds of men in this Harlot, this man of sin system to come up with them. And, we say, "what are these signs?" Let us remember that a sign is, that which distinguishes a person or thing from others. It is, very simply, the NAME which projects over every Christian assembly and organization that exists on the entire planet. That name, which is over every entity that has been brought forth by this three, of the earth/earthy system, has proceeded forth and came out of the mouth of the Dragon, and the mouth of the beast, and the mouth of the false prophet. The assignment of these three foul spirits has manifest itself through the carnal minds of MAN. And it is under these names of man where the three, of the earth/earthy, assemble. These signs are all registered with secular government and give these three, of the earthy, the authority to ply their trade. And so it will be, until the time of that great warfare period of God Almighty. Of course in order to see these things clearly one has to understand everything that has been revealed by the Spirit up to this point in the Unveiling. These things are what the Lord has shown me with respect to NAMES. And much more besides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Verse 13 - And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet Again: "...And I saw proceed out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet/religious imposter three foul spirits, like unto frogs..." This is the literal way in which this verse is written in the Greek. It is important to put it in its proper order as the three foul spirits, like unto frogs are a direct tie-in to verse fourteen. Frogs point to unclean; were part of the judgment of God upon Egypt, and they came forth from waters turned to blood. (Ref: Exo 7:15-25; 8:1-6) We have seen the Dragon go after the beautiful woman (Rev 12:15, 16) and cast out of his mouth water as a flood. That water was, of course, bloody water. And I am supposed to believe that the Holy Spirit told you this? Hoo-boy. How do you handle the fact that leaven is symbolic in one place for sin (Passover) and yet symbolic in another place for the Kingdom of God (Matt. 13:33)? You are creating ties that do not exist. Where is Shiloh's "sloppy exegesis" rebuke when you need it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Let us remember that a sign is, that which distinguishes a person or thing from others. It is, very simply, the NAME which projects over every Christian assembly and organization that exists on the entire planet. Sign Exodus 4:8 - And it shall come to pass, if they will not believe thee, neither hearken to the voice of the first sign [staff turned to snake and back], that they will believe the voice of the latter sign [hand turned leprous and back]. Ex. 13 6 Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD. 7 Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters. 8 And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying , This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt. 9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. Luke 11:30 - For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation. Your definition of "sign" does not match what Scripture declares as a "sign". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,785 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2011 The letters were addressed to the assemblies that were in a particular city, the assembly itself did not have the name of that city or location. But, why do we defend this or that position without doing our own homework before the Lord to discover what is true? that is a good question, why do you do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt712 Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/08/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/06/1981 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Wonder how they managed for the first, oh say 250 years of the Church without all the man made names? "The Church" always did have a name. First it was "Followers of the Way," then it was "Christians," somewhere along the way it became "the Church," etc. It was just the assembly at this place or that, but amazingly it seems those who were born again did manage to fellowship. These businesses that have come into existence in the last 600 years did not come forth from the Mind of God, but, from the mind of man. The Church as as a business began long before that. You can even see it forming into a business around the end of the 1st century. 'The Church as a business' is really just another way of saying 'false teachings'. The early church was riddled with people who wanted to capitalize on the glory of Christ by using his name to extort money, praise and power for themselves. Many of Paul's letters were meant to correct or instruct churches on how to remain faithful servants of God and His Son Jesus. The ONLY thing I've ever cared about is the quality of the person standing before me. If they live in a way that pleases The Lord then I find a way to get along with them. As for what pleases God, it takes some practice/mistakes before you get it right even once. To please him all the time is not human at all. I hope this does not strike you as self-righteous, but I'm sure many of you have felt the same at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleAbee Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Wonder how they managed for the first, oh say 250 years of the Church without all the man made names? "The Church" always did have a name. First it was "Followers of the Way," then it was "Christians," somewhere along the way it became "the Church," etc. It was just the assembly at this place or that, but amazingly it seems those who were born again did manage to fellowship. These businesses that have come into existence in the last 600 years did not come forth from the Mind of God, but, from the mind of man. The Church as as a business began long before that. You can even see it forming into a business around the end of the 1st century. The church never had any "official" name such as Baptist, Methodist, etc. There were generic names for it as you suggested but the church never adopted any of those as its name. The only name that early Christians were concerned with was Christ and the name of "Christian." Any name that we call ourselves must be true to the scriptures. We see the church being mentioned as the Christ's body (1 Cor 12:27), Body of Christ (Eph 4:12), churches of Christ (Romans 16:16), church of God (1 Cor 1:2), etc. But, none of these names were the "official" name of the church but they are all "appropriate" names because they are true to the scriptures. 1 Peter 4:16 says - "but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name." There we are given specific authority to glorify God by the use of the name "Christian." This exemplifies lifestyle Christianity and there are no other names which scripture gives this authority to. The names we put on our buildings are of no consequence as long as they are scripturally driven. 1st century Christians were not concerned with names on buildings. They were concerned with lifestyle Christianity through conforming themselves to the image of Christ (Romans 8:29, Phil 3:10, Eph 4:11-13). We are concerned with names on buildings because of "branding." We have all these different brands of Christianity and want folks to know which brand they are coming to. The only brand the bible speaks of is that of Christ. The bible speaks towards unity and opposes the divisions that man made branding causes. Edited February 9, 2011 by UncleAbee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 9, 2011 'The Church as a business' is really just another way of saying 'false teachings'. The early church was riddled with people who wanted to capitalize on the glory of Christ by using his name to extort money, praise and power for themselves. Many of Paul's letters were meant to correct or instruct churches on how to remain faithful servants of God and His Son Jesus. There was more to it than that. The Church was being bombarded with Hellinistic philosophies, Gnosticism being the most famous, but there were more. Church leaders began formulating written statements of faith to combat such things, and these ended up becoming doctrine. It wasn't long until Christians began trusting these doctrines over learning to be guided by the Holy Spirit. Eventually the church leadership decided the only way to fight heresy was to completely control all teaching and preaching, and thus the Scriptures were kept away from the common man. Add to this that we humans simply love our organizations, love our committees, love to label things, love our routines, get set in our ways, . . . . In essence, it wasn't just because of greed and power; it was normal human nature. Church leadership saw the need to keep unity. How else to be unified than to become an establishment? They needed to fight heresy. How else to combat heresy but redefine the tenants of faith that contained elements specifically refuting the heresy? Even the original church had a leadership hierarchy. The ONLY thing I've ever cared about is the quality of the person standing before me. If they live in a way that pleases The Lord then I find a way to get along with them. As for what pleases God, it takes some practice/mistakes before you get it right even once. To please him all the time is not human at all. I hope this does not strike you as self-righteous, but I'm sure many of you have felt the same at some point. I agree, and I believe we all do. But we still have to work with theological clashes, and worshiping together has to get past the different ways we worship issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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