David333 Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 47 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/10/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1976 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? There is a major difference of opinion between Calvinists and Arminians for centuries about this OSAS (once saved always saved topic). I am a free will theist (Open Theist, former Arminian), not a determinist, so I believe Scripture teaches conditional vs unconditional eternal security. Heb. 6:4-6 is a stern warning about the possibility of apostasy, falling away (doctrine of perseverance of the saints). Believers are secure in Christ (Jude 24-25), but it is possible for a believer to revert to godless unbelief (this historical context was Jewish Christians returning to the shadow/types of Judaism vs reality of Christ). The word means to fall from truth, not to just be a fake. OSAS must say that those who fall away were never saved or that they are still saved despite rejecting Christ. The other possibility is that they were saved, but are no longer so. Just as the saving power and grace of God can be rejected before conversion (universalism is not true), so the keeping grace and power of the Spirit can be rejected after conversion (OSAS is not true, but is false assurance). Salvation is relational, reciprocal, not mechanistic, irreversible. Someone who was not really converted and then leaves the faith is a fake, counterfeit, fraud. An apostate was a genuine believer. There is remedy for apostasy, like any sin. If one returns to their first love before death, they can be restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? How can someone fall away from a faith they never had? 2 Thessalonians 2 The Great Apostasy 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. and again ... 1 Timothy 4 The Great Apostasy 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleAbee Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 1 Joined: 07/08/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted February 8, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? How can someone fall away from a faith they never had? 2 Thessalonians 2 The Great Apostasy 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. and again ... 1 Timothy 4 The Great Apostasy 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. I agree. How can someone fall away from a faith they never had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 8, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? Not again! Not again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? Not again! Not again! :24: I agree . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godrulz Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 885 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/19/1960 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Heb. 3; 6; 10, etc. talks about falling away in every generation. 2 Thess. 2 is about apostasy during the future Great Tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,088 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2011 What exactly is this Biblical Apostasy? I have heard and understand that it is a "falling away from the Faith". So, I guess my question is actually: Those who commit this act (Apostasy), are they Believers? Or were they only pretending to believe? Were they saved, or Born Again? Just curious as to what some on this board thinks about this, and why, and what Scriptures support what you believe about it? there is no answer to this question in this life. That only God knows at this time. That is the reason it's been debated here and other places for 2,000 years and still no real resolution. Only God knows the heart, for sometimes we can even lie to ourselves.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest man Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 The passages below are not referrencing individuals who never had faith. How can someone fall away from a faith they never had? 2 Thessalonians 2 The Great Apostasy 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. and again ... 1 Timothy 4 The Great Apostasy 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 9, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 9, 2011 The passages below are not referrencing individuals who never had faith. How can someone fall away from a faith they never had? 2 Thessalonians 2 The Great Apostasy 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. and again ... 1 Timothy 4 The Great Apostasy 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. Exactly my point to the OP. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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