can a christian smoke...??

[Nero's Fiddle]

Dearest sister LadyC,

Please do not be offended by anything I write below! You are obviously my sister in Christ, and I love you. :il:

first of all, regarding being good stewards of money, our bodies, etc...

fiddle, how often to you grab a bite to eat at the local mcdonalds or other fast food restaurant? how often do you go out and buy a CD? how often do you go see a movie, or rent one? how often do you eat a bag of potato chips?

see where i'm going with this?

Yes, I see. I do eat fast food sometimes, but I still "count calories" and opt for the healthier choices. My music collection is not extensive, but what I do have is Godhonoring and helps me in my walk with Christ. With all the smut in the movies nowadays, I don't watch too many. The last film I rented was "The Gospel of John". Ick... I don't care for potato chips at all!

However, I do get your point. I just don't think that our imperfections are excuses to ignore Scripture. I believe that we have the Bible and the Holy Spirit so that we can continue to become more and more like what we are supposed to be... servants who do all to the glory of God.

second... i don't think anyone can truly judge what kind of witness it makes of those who smoke. there are many people in this world that think christians can't possibly be someone they can relate to.

That is the same logic the "buddy Jesus" folks use.

However, the Bible says that the world cannot love and accept us because we are not of this world.

We are children of light, but the unsaved are still children of their father, the devil!

"For what fellowship hath light with darkness? Or, what fellowship hath Christ with Beelzebub?" (paraphrase)

We are supposed to show forth the Lord in our walks, revealing sin because we reflect the Light of Christ. We are not supposed to make a compromise with evil.

God used the actions of Joseph's brothers to save many lives. But that does not justify the actions of the brothers. The Lord's will shall be done... He is able to work all things together to accomplish His purposes.

The Bible says that even Satan and his minions are used by God for his purposes! But that does not make them good.

All I know is what the Word says, LadyC. And the Word says we are supposed to be separate and sanctified.

All for the One, for the One died for all!

NF

[Nero's Fiddle]

JUICES for regular drinking?!?!?! what about all that sugar? isnt this 'bad' for you as well?

I probably didn't say that as well as I could have... I drink mabye one or two glasses of orange juice in a week.

Too much sugar is not good for you, but neither is a lack of calcium and other vitamins and minerals.

Don't get me wrong, here... I am not a health fanatic! Spiritual things are a quajillion times more important than anything concerning our bodies!

However, I feel that addictions to harmful substances are not conducive to furthering one's walk with God, so they are not expedient and we should pray that the Lord would help us to work them out of our lives.

Like I mentioned in my post to LadyC, we are all supposed to be becoming more and more like what we are supposed to be... more like Christ.

Just because it may be permissable does not mean it is expedient, and triumphant, transforming Christians strive for expediancy.

I love you, my sibling in Christ. Please don't read any of this as being written with an "argumentative" tone... it wasn't. :hug:

In Him,

NF

[Guest LadyC]

fiddle, i'm not at all offended by your opinions... i'm very secure in my walk with Christ

and i hope you won't take offense to this either... the comments you make may be very valid, but i think there may be every bit as much validity in mine, so please take it in the spirit it's intended.

never try to put God in a box. he doesn't use a big giant cookie cutter to punch out picture perfect christians, and then just throw away the scraps that are left over. by assuming that a person who smokes can't possibly glorify God as much, or have as good of a relationship with Him, is to try and put a limit on what He can or can not use.

scripture does not say anywhere that we can't smoke. it doesn't say we can't drink, either. it doesn't say we can't drink coffee or tea or sodas. it doesn't say we can't eat fried chicken smothered in gravy. and it doesn't say that someone who abstains from all this will make a better witness. there are all sorts of people in the world, and they all need to be reached by somebody. like it or not, you won't be able to reach all the ones i can reach... and i won't be able to reach all the ones you can.

God has a purpose for all of us... and maybe that's why He chooses to convict individuals of different things at different points in their lives.

for the record, the strongest christian couple i ever met (aside maybe from my own parents) was a man and wife named ken and jeannie. ken was my children's church pastor when i was a kid. he and his wife spent many years (when i was older) as missionaries in saudi arabia.

jeannie died three years ago, of throat cancer, having smoked all her life. ken is still an awesome man of God. he is still an ordained minister, and was the one who did my father's funeral service.

and at 70+ years old, he still smokes.

anyway, all i'm trying to say, is don't limit God by your own preconcieved notions. God uses us all as He sees fit... and while you can't see it, a smoker may just be the person God chooses to be a witness to someone who won't listen to anyone else. my ways aren't your ways, and your ways aren't mine... but God's ways aren't OUR ways... and unless you know the mind of God, you can't know how, or why, or when, or whom, He chooses to do His work.

know what i mean?

[3in1]

I love you, my sibling in Christ. Please don't read any of this as being written with an "argumentative" tone... it wasn't.

great, i didnt take them as mean, hopefully you didnt either! :il:

again, there is no way we could list all the things that God could get glory from. i see what you are saying that b/c God may be glorified even in sin (ie David and Bethsheba's affair) does not make it right. but my point is that smoking in and of itself is no sin. again, 1Cor.3:16 does not fit here b/c that discourse is not a call for believers to be on the Atkins diet!(okay, okay, i admit that was bad, but hopefully you got the point )

in Christ

[Nero's Fiddle]

I see what you are saying, LadyC.

However, while God cannot be put in a box, He also cannot contradict Himself.

I could not even begin to fathom the mind or plan of God, but I know as much as He chose to reveal in His Word.

He doesn't make "cookie cutter Christians", but He is making every single Christian look more and more like Jesus.

There is an absolute standard of right and good and perfect, and Jesus exemplified that for us.

Jesus was the living Word.

While we are not all the same, God is always the same and so is His perfect standard.

Individuality and God's "permissive will" are not excuses to declare yourself exempt from seeking after God's "perfect will". :x:

Come, Lord Jesus!

NF

[Guest LadyC]

He doesn't make "cookie cutter Christians", but He is making every single Christian look more and more like Jesus.

absolutely fiddle... and He makes us all look more and more like Jesus in HIS time.... and God knows no timetable.

i don't use this as an "excuse" or justification for my smoking. i just know that God isn't finished with me yet. maybe smoking will be the next thing He chooses to eliminate in my life, maybe it will be the last. when He convicts me, i will listen. until then, i just keep doing the work He has called me to do, wherever He calls me to do it at.

amen?

[Born Again]

I am not a smoker so I do not know how it affects one's relationship with God.

[Nero's Fiddle]

I love you, my sibling in Christ. Please don't read any of this as being written with an "argumentative" tone... it wasn't.

great, i didnt take them as mean, hopefully you didnt either! :il:

again, there is no way we could list all the things that God could get glory from. i see what you are saying that b/c God may be glorified even in sin (ie David and Bethsheba's affair) does not make it right. but my point is that smoking in and of itself is no sin. again, 1Cor.3:16 does not fit here b/c that discourse is not a call for believers to be on the Atkins diet!(okay, okay, i admit that was bad, but hopefully you got the point )

in Christ

Mabye I'm not making my point clear enough... it would not be the first time.

The Bible does not say, "Thou shalt not smoke." That is true.

God can use a smoker to His glory. That is also true.

But smoking itself does not glorify God. It does not nourish your body or your spirit. It is done to please carnal lusts alone. Again, the Bible says, "Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whasoever ye do, do all to the glory of God."

Even if something is not wrong in itself (I'm not saying that smoking isn't), if it does not glorify God, it may be permissable but not necessarily expedient.

Listen, there is a very fine line between a wonderful thing and a "permissable" thing. The wonderful thing is living for God. The "permissable" thing is allowing God to be a part of your life.

The wonderful thing is pressing toward the mark of doing all to the glory of God. The "permissable" thing is doing whatever we like so long as we avoid outright sinning.

The widow at the temple would not have been sinning if she had given only a tithe and nothing more. But the best thing, the thing commended by our Lord Himself, was to give everything she had for the Lord's use.

I am not trying to say that smoking is itself a sin, necessarily.

What I am saying is that, if we have a close walk with God and want it to become ever closer, we cannot be satisfied with simply avoiding sin. We must run the race with all of our might... we must truly live for God.

That means trying to "do all to the glory of God", and nixing those things that are not expedient.

And that includes smoking.

If we know this, that the most expedient thing would be to quit smoking, and we do not do it, then we fall under this verse:

"Now, to them who know to do good, and do it not, it is counted for sin."

Then, smoking is a sin.

All for the One, for the One died for all!

NF

[Guest Gladiator4God]

I belive the Lord would rather have us addicted to him , not a plant he created.....the smokers always come up with a way to pretty much justify what they do........ bottom line is it stinks looks nasty and it kills and kills those who are innocently minding there own business by being near a smoker ,in no way sucking on death can glorify God

[Trinity]

Show and tell hehe