Rapture Question

[Guest]

Thousands of years after?

Shortly after registering here I read a post in which someone made a reference to a book and I clicked onto that site, ultimately

losing the op here in Worthy. To date I have been unable to find that post again. The book is entitled "The Finished Mystery", in which the rapture is discussed on pgs. 128 - 131. This is a pdf file and is quiet long, 230 odd pages. If you want the site addy let me know.

I have mostly believed that the exit resurrection will be a pre-trib happenstance. However throughout history Christians have suffered and died for their

belief in Christ. We are told;

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Because of our sin and turning away from Him, we should expect to get off scott free in the exit resurrection? I think the US is in for some severe punishment in the days to come.

Some questions I have:

If He would allow the US to be in the sorry state in which we now exist, (because we are in a Laodicean mindset) do we deserve to be raptured?

If so then what happens to His chastisment of us? Could going through a part of the tribulation be considered our scourging, or are these two events mutually exclusive of one another?

Individuals are not held responsible for the sins of a nation, just as the salvation and obedience of an individual cannot save a nation. Unless, of course, one is complicit or condones it by doing nothing end or reveal such sins.

[Ray B]

Thousands of years after?

Shortly after registering here I read a post in which someone made a reference to a book and I clicked onto that site, ultimately

losing the op here in Worthy. To date I have been unable to find that post again. The book is entitled "The Finished Mystery", in which the rapture is discussed on pgs. 128 - 131. This is a pdf file and is quiet long, 230 odd pages. If you want the site addy let me know.

I have mostly believed that the exit resurrection will be a pre-trib happenstance. However throughout history Christians have suffered and died for their

belief in Christ. We are told;

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Because of our sin and turning away from Him, we should expect to get off scott free in the exit resurrection? I think the US is in for some severe punishment in the days to come.

Some questions I have:

If He would allow the US to be in the sorry state in which we now exist, (because we are in a Laodicean mindset) do we deserve to be raptured?

If so then what happens to His chastisment of us? Could going through a part of the tribulation be considered our scourging, or are these two events mutually exclusive of one another?

Individuals are not held responsible for the sins of a nation, just as the salvation and obedience of an individual cannot save a nation. Unless, of course, one is complicit or condones it by doing nothing end or reveal such sins.

[Ray B]

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The above verses are clear as we will not be gathered together unto The Lord (The Rapture) until AFTER there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

[goldust59]

PLEASE BE AWARE = 2020 VISION

Why the TRIBULATION MUST START by or before MARCH 14, 2012

YES,,, THERE IS A DEADLINE,

FOR THE RETURN OF CHRIST,

Derived from the verse in Mathew 24:34 + 33

(Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.)

(So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.)

One of the big problems is that this passage is not talking about the Second Coming. Jesus is answering this question:

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?"

(Mat 24:3)

People have assumed the "coming" being referenced is the 2nd coming, but that is not possible. At the time the disciples asked this question, they had not yet accepted that Jesus was going to die, much less be resurrected or ascend into heaven and return a second time. The idea of a "second coming" would not have been in any way in the minds of the disciples. They simply had no point of reference for that.

Matthew 17:21~From that time forth began Jesus to show unto His disciples, how that He must go into Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders & chief priests & scribes, and be killed, and be raised

again the third day.

Matthew 17:27,28~For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and then shall He reward every man according to his works.

Jesus had told the disciples these things before they asked about the signs of His coming in Matthew 24:3

[rollinTHUNDER]

PLEASE BE AWARE = 2020 VISION

Why the TRIBULATION MUST START by or before MARCH 14, 2012

YES,,, THERE IS A DEADLINE,

FOR THE RETURN OF CHRIST,

Derived from the verse in Mathew 24:34 + 33

(Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.)

(So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.)

One of the big problems is that this passage is not talking about the Second Coming. Jesus is answering this question:

As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?"

(Mat 24:3)

People have assumed the "coming" being referenced is the 2nd coming, but that is not possible. At the time the disciples asked this question, they had not yet accepted that Jesus was going to die, much less be resurrected or ascend into heaven and return a second time. The idea of a "second coming" would not have been in any way in the minds of the disciples. They simply had no point of reference for that.

Matthew 17:21~From that time forth began Jesus to show unto His disciples, how that He must go into Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders & chief priests & scribes, and be killed, and be raised

again the third day.

Matthew 17:27,28~For the Son of man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and then shall He reward every man according to his works.

Jesus had told the disciples these things before they asked about the signs of His coming in Matthew 24:3

Good catch, goldie!!

Many argue over whether Christ was referring to the rapture or the second coming, when He answered His disciples question in Matthew 24. But many don't realize that He discusses both, the rapture and His second coming in His answer.

[ears]

I believe it will be after or middle(3 1/2 yrs.). It seems to me the Lord will bring us through tribulation and then shorten it's time for the saints sake. I don't think we will have all the answers to these questions until that time comes and the Lord opens it up to us...

[noobie]

If I am still here I will know when it happens when I get sucked into the sky. And behold He comes quickly! Hold on and be ready for the ride of your life Try not to worry about the little details. Just worry if you are right with Christ or not. That's all that matters in the end anyway.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Turner

[JesusisGod2]

The rapture will take place after the false messiah is on the scene and reveals his true colors when he defiles the temple and claims to be God and then renege on his covenant with Israel.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NASB95)

1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,

2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

I guess that about says it.

Amen Neb,

The rapture and the return of our Lord are two different events, Just as the great tribulation and the pouring out of Gods wrath are 2 different events.

However when we meet the lord in the air is well after the anti-Christ appears and we are towards the end of the tribulation period when we meet THe Lord in the air. The key word is we meet Him in the air.

During this time while we are athe wedding and the feast.........Gods wrath is poured out upon the earth................Most people confuse the great tribulation as the same thing as God pouring out His wrath upon mankind, when the tribulation is actually a sign and a warning to mankind that He is about to return ( To the believers it is a sign of our transformation to be takin up with Him to all others it is a sign of Gods wrath and his soon to be return)

When Jesus returns, We will be with Him to set up his kindom and rule with Him for 1,000 years.

Jesus said that while in the world we will experience tribulation, but we are not the subjects of Gods wrath, there is an important difference

This was a very good question by the origional poster and one that should be studied in depth by all.

God bless

kevin

[Bold Believer]

2 Thessalonians 2

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The above verses are clear as we will not be gathered together unto The Lord (The Rapture) until AFTER there come a falling away first , and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Apparently Ray my brother, you don't read Greek. Falling away is apostasia, which means to depart from a STANDARD, not a place. So when Paul states that we cannot be synagogued (gathered together) to the Lord until the apostasy comes first, he means a departure from the totality of Christian teaching concerning Christ and God, not the changing of the body.

[Bold Believer]

Thousands of years after?

Shortly after registering here I read a post in which someone made a reference to a book and I clicked onto that site, ultimately

losing the op here in Worthy. To date I have been unable to find that post again. The book is entitled "The Finished Mystery", in which the rapture is discussed on pgs. 128 - 131. This is a pdf file and is quiet long, 230 odd pages. If you want the site addy let me know.

I have mostly believed that the exit resurrection will be a pre-trib happenstance. However throughout history Christians have suffered and died for their

belief in Christ. We are told;

Hebrews 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Because of our sin and turning away from Him, we should expect to get off scott free in the exit resurrection? I think the US is in for some severe punishment in the days to come.

Some questions I have:

If He would allow the US to be in the sorry state in which we now exist, (because we are in a Laodicean mindset) do we deserve to be raptured?

If so then what happens to His chastisment of us? Could going through a part of the tribulation be considered our scourging, or are these two events mutually exclusive of one another?

Individuals are not held responsible for the sins of a nation, just as the salvation and obedience of an individual cannot save a nation. Unless, of course, one is complicit or condones it by doing nothing end or reveal such sins.

An interesting point Parker. One I would at least partially agree with. I believe that governments are responsible for the sins of a nation. Governments represent law. If a government enacts laws which defy God's word, and the people acquiesce to it, then, I believe that God holds that society responsible. Many otherwise great nations have been brought low in exactly that manner.