other one Posted December 14, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,062 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,810 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted December 14, 2012 The question is not why God allowed, or God let. The question is how did Satan get a place to pull this off. It's horrible. Jesus Is Lord. you are correct in this is the question we should be asking...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted December 14, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The question is not why God allowed, or God let. The question is how did Satan get a place to pull this off. It's horrible. Jesus Is Lord. you are correct in this is the question we should be asking...... Amen. but it shouldn't surprise us as in the end he is the one who deceives the whole world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apodil Posted December 14, 2012 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 2 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 14, 2012 Jehovah* God does not cause human suffering. Suffering was never a part of God's purpose for mankind. When God made the first human couple, he purposed for them and their offspring to live forever on a paradise earth. However, Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God's rule, because they wanted to set their own standards for what is good and bad. As a result of them turning away from God, they had to then suffer the consequences. Today, we are experiencing the effects of their bad decision. Human suffering, then, does not originate with God. The Bible identifies three basic factors for what causes suffering today. Let us consider them: The Choices a Person Makes "Whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap." (Galatians 6:7) In other words, our actions have consequences. If some irresponsible teenagers decided to drink a bunch of alcoholic beverages and then go driving right afterwards, resulting in them dying in a crash, who was at fault? It was not God, but their poor decision to drink and drive that led to the outcome. If someone decided to start smoking, and 10 years later they were diagnosed with lung cancer, who was at fault? It was not God who caused the cancer, but rather, it was the person's bad decision to start an unhealthy habit. So too, due to people misusing their free will, it's common for them to cause suffering not just for themselves, but also others as well. Unforeseen Occurrences Another cause for affliction is a result of randomness, or as Ecclesiastes 9:11 states: “Time and unforeseen occurrence befall [us] all." Let's say a family was out camping in the woods, and it was very windy. The wind ends up blowing down a tree and it lands on one of them. Is God to blame? No. The one that was crushed by the tree was simply at the wrong place at the wrong time; it was an unforeseen occurrence. This can also hold true for a person that suddenly becomes ill, or for an abrupt death of a loved one. The Current "Ruler of This World" Who is the "ruler of this world?" The Bible says: "The whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." (John 12:31; 1 John 5:19) That wicked one is Satan the Devil. Indeed, the world is full of hate, deceit, and cruelty; which is reflective of its current ruler, Satan. As can be seen, Jehovah God does not cause human suffering. On the contrary, He plans to put an end to it. (Psalms 37:9-11; Revelation 21:4) *Jehovah is the name of the God from the Bible. (Psalms 83:18) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bryanw92 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 The question is not why God allowed, or God let. The question is how did Satan get a place to pull this off. It's horrible. Jesus Is Lord. you are correct in this is the question we should be asking...... How could Satan NOT get a place to pull this off? Our nation worships idols and glorifies Satan every chance it gets. Even most Christians prefer a watered-down gospel that doesn't make anyone uncomfortable. Even someone as obviously demon-possesed as today's shooter gets a pass as we try to explain it all away with mental illnesses and how he just needed more "help". Satan could drive up in a bright red Ferrari, step out, and announce who he is and half of the country would line up to find out how to get a car like he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 15, 2012 The question is not why God allowed, or God let. The question is how did Satan get a place to pull this off. It's horrible. Jesus Is Lord. you are correct in this is the question we should be asking...... How could Satan NOT get a place to pull this off? Our nation worships idols and glorifies Satan every chance it gets. Even most Christians prefer a watered-down gospel that doesn't make anyone uncomfortable. Even someone as obviously demon-possesed as today's shooter gets a pass as we try to explain it all away with mental illnesses and how he just needed more "help". Satan could drive up in a bright red Ferrari, step out, and announce who he is and half of the country would line up to find out how to get a car like he has. And what is mental illness exactly? I consider that we are told to cast down imaginations that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God. And that we are not ignorant of Satan's devices (thoughts). Mental illness is basically something a person is labeled as having when they have poor thought life management. I have personally experienced that which is called mental illness and have watched it go away as I learned about Christ through the bible and how to follow him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,062 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,810 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted December 15, 2012 The question is not why God allowed, or God let. The question is how did Satan get a place to pull this off. It's horrible. Jesus Is Lord. you are correct in this is the question we should be asking...... How could Satan NOT get a place to pull this off? Our nation worships idols and glorifies Satan every chance it gets. Even most Christians prefer a watered-down gospel that doesn't make anyone uncomfortable. Even someone as obviously demon-possesed as today's shooter gets a pass as we try to explain it all away with mental illnesses and how he just needed more "help". Satan could drive up in a bright red Ferrari, step out, and announce who he is and half of the country would line up to find out how to get a car like he has. First of all, I've worked with demon possessed people and I can tell you that it's really not a good idea to make that kind of decision until we know much more about this person. There are many possibilities as to why he did what he did today. i could even whip up a couple of global conspirators and tell you of a couple of books to read and you might decide that it wasn't really demonic after all.......... but let us not taint the day with talk of conspiracies or demon talk and just grieve and let things work out to where we can make some real sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bryanw92 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 First of all, I've worked with demon possessed people and I can tell you that it's really not a good idea to make that kind of decision until we know much more about this person. There are many possibilities as to why he did what he did today. i could even whip up a couple of global conspirators and tell you of a couple of books to read and you might decide that it wasn't really demonic after all.......... but let us not taint the day with talk of conspiracies or demon talk and just grieve and let things work out to where we can make some real sense. I think the day is pretty well tainted already. 20 children are dead. The shooter is dead so we never even get to know why. The politicians are lining up to blame this on MY guns. Every few days another one of these people pops up with a gun and starts shooting innocent strangers. We all believe in angels here, but mention demons and you are quickly told to shut up with the crazy talk. The smartest thing Satan ever did was to convince the world that he is not real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,062 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,810 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Online Share Posted December 15, 2012 First of all, I've worked with demon possessed people and I can tell you that it's really not a good idea to make that kind of decision until we know much more about this person. There are many possibilities as to why he did what he did today. i could even whip up a couple of global conspirators and tell you of a couple of books to read and you might decide that it wasn't really demonic after all.......... but let us not taint the day with talk of conspiracies or demon talk and just grieve and let things work out to where we can make some real sense. I think the day is pretty well tainted already. 20 children are dead. The shooter is dead so we never even get to know why. The politicians are lining up to blame this on MY guns. Every few days another one of these people pops up with a gun and starts shooting innocent strangers. We all believe in angels here, but mention demons and you are quickly told to shut up with the crazy talk. The smartest thing Satan ever did was to convince the world that he is not real. Can't disagree when the satan not real thing. but lets cross the gun control bridge thing when the time comes. but I want to know if this guy was having problems with disassociated personalities.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2012 Trying to keep on topic. Children 20 and younger are not responsible before God to make an eternal choice, and are with the Father now if things on earth did not work out. Num 14 Can you show the exact scripture that shows that all people 20 years of age and younger are not responsible before God to make an eternal choice,?? throughout future generations that as well? This scripture is directly speaking about those who rebel against God and were grumbling and complaining about God and what he instructs of people It is not about people who have not been taught about the LORD, or anyone else , it speaks specifically about rebellious grumbling against God, I don't think 20 is the right number Mike. I agree with Daniel I'd like to see further Biblical evidence for this concept. I'm not trying to down play the tragedy that happened this week. My heart and prayers go out to the families of the victims. But understanding and awareness as far as accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ comes well before the age of 20 would you agree? Regarding Our Personal Responsibility

 Prov. 28:13
 He who covers his sins will not prosper,
But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

 Gal. 6:5
 For each one shall bear his own load. 2 Cor. 5:10
 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 1 Cor. 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. Ez. 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. From the Worthy SoF... We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2012 The scripture does mean as you seem to think it does, it does not say that people 20 years of age are not responsible to make a decision to accept God as savoir it is specific to a certain group of people in a particular time frame , I already gave you the Ref to Heb 11 and the promised land to come. I already told you God made an exception though the parents confessed their kids be prey, and in any other place that put the Child in jeopardy. God never changes, so it don't matter when God said it as the Word is Eternal. Children do not go to Hell, and your statement is not very comforting to those that have lost Children. Even if what you believe is correct, there is wisdom to not say anything, something you need to seek God on in the light of the event that just took place in our country. Though we know God had nothing to do with this, and we think we might have a idea as to how the devil got in. Lets use our relationship with God on the behalf of the family's for Comfort, lets go to our Father on their behalf as it is needed now. Jesus Is Lord. Mike what specific verses in Hebrews 11 are you referring to please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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