Fez Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Trying to keep on topic. Children 20 and younger are not responsible before God to make an eternal choice, and are with the Father now if things on earth did not work out. Num 14 Can you show the exact scripture that shows that all people 20 years of age and younger are not responsible before God to make an eternal choice,?? throughout future generations that as well? This scripture is directly speaking about those who rebel against God and were grumbling and complaining about God and what he instructs of people It is not about people who have not been taught about the LORD, or anyone else , it speaks specifically about rebellious grumbling against God, I don't think 20 is the right number Mike. I agree with Daniel I'd like to see further Biblical evidence for this concept. I'm not trying to down play the tragedy that happened this week. My heart and prayers go out to the families of the victims. But understanding and awareness as far as accepting or rejecting Jesus Christ comes well before the age of 20 would you agree? Regarding Our Personal Responsibility Prov. 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy. Gal. 6:5 For each one shall bear his own load. 2 Cor. 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 1 Cor. 13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. Ez. 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. Rom. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. From the Worthy SoF... We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God. God bless, GE I agree that you are taking the 20 years and younger thing right out of context Mike. And if you are saying they are not responsible for making an eternal choice, does this passage mean God gives them no choice at all but condemns them all to hell? That is not the God I serve. Num 14:18 'The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,022 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,367 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Age of accountability is an easy thing to grasp within the Scripture: sin is contingent upon knowing good and evil- Ge 2:17 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." NKJV Jas 4:17 17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. NKJV Now the heart being the clock for which this is determined lays solely upon God alone Who knows the heart... thus the age is unknown to us and is most probably varied within the individual toward development! Thus the 20 cannot apply! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 899 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,634 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2012 The price of having choice. Mankind has no business making choices other than to abjectly trust God and follow his instruction. In Eden, man took it upon himself to choose between right or wrong and to define what is right or wrong... and the blood bath we know as history is the result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted December 15, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 899 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,634 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,828 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 15, 2012 W e do not possess the ability to make these choices (omniscience for one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted December 16, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Danielzk I think I laid out my case, I think I gave the connections, gave the difference in Children dying because parents are dumb, and this one exception God made because it was the Promise land, a shadow of things to come. I gave scripture, and explained the difference between a child under the curse and the case of the Child being held accountable for the promise land. God called all 19 and under "Little ones" That is what these were in his eyes, and not responsible to make a choice with their parents to not enter the promise land. As for the generational curse Doctrine, I don't buy into that, and no need to cover that scripture. Jesus Is Lord. First, Mike did not put kids in Hell. I would not do that. I meant to say 19 and younger are not made responsible for their transgressions, or their parents choices. In other Words, Kids don't make eternal choices at that age. Lets look at this. Num 14:18 'The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.' As for the generational curse Doctrine, I don't buy into that, and no need to cover that scripture. Just because you won't buy into it, and it kind of destroys your argument about the age restriction thing, doers not mean it will go away Mike.... Would you like to give your take on the scripture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinM Posted December 20, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 144 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,512 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 625 Days Won: 10 Joined: 04/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1979 Share Posted December 20, 2012 This might help bring human reasoning, to a tragedy beyond our understanding: http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/was-god-awol-at-newtown/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massorite Posted December 20, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,973 Content Per Day: 0.32 Reputation: 36 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/26/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/13/1953 Share Posted December 20, 2012 "Why does God allow children to die at a young age"? For some of you who are reading this post and are mature Christians, your back hair might be standing up! You may be a bit upset that I would give the impression that God should be questioned. I understand. However, if your a baby Christian, you just accepted your alter call or prayed the sinners prayer and you have had a major loss in your life, this might be a good question for you. In fact, you might be on the fence about Jesus Christ and the reason might be that you just dont understand why an all knowing God would take away your spouse, your child, your parent. Some of those passings have been in horrible ways. We can give the standard answer "We live in a broken world". Thats kind of like when you ask your mom why you cant have that piece of candy and she retorts "Because I am the parent and you are the child". True! But it still doesnt explain to me why I cant have candy!! Would you feel better knowing that God is NOT the god of hide and go seek. In 1 Thesolonians Paul exorts us to "Confirm everything". The reason? God has made it known to us (as scripture says) 'by his Spirit'. It may not be the loss of someone you love. It may be a broken marriage or you may be in the process of loosing everything you have. You may be fighting an addiction that you just cant seem to get a hold of. You may not understand why, as a Christian who loves and tries to follow the teachings of Jesus, you must go through such horrible things. In fact, you may wonder why you have to face these things and in fact some of those who dont believe at all and never want to, seem to live a normal peaceful life. For those of you who have been saved for some time, I would love for you to chime in on how God worked you through major trials in your life. This would really be helpful for new believers reading this post. I write a series of articles for the Examiner online. As a point of reference, I am attaching the link to my latest article entitled "Why does God allow bad things to happen". I'd really love some feed back on the article OR this topic in the blog. http://www.examiner....d-things-happen I look forward to great conversation that glorifies the Lord! The question you ask is a very common one and worthy of an answer. Unfortunatly many people blame God for what man has done and are always asking questions like yours. Here is what I know from scripture. God gave us a very special gift just like he did the angels he also created. He gave us "The Choice To Choose" and we can choose to kill or not to kill for any reason we see fit whether it be for murder or self defence. I don't believe that Adam and Eve were meant to die a death as we know it. However when Adam did not do his God given job, which was to keep watch over Eve to make sure that she kept the only law God gave them to obey, which was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, sin, death and destruction was introduced into the perfect world that God created. So because of Adams failure to do what was right, the body began to age, become deceased and to die. And we are still suffering for what Adam failed to do. It is never God's dicision to allow children to die, but it was our choice to allow sin and destruction into the world. God didn't allow those children at Sandy Hook to die. It was the choice of one man who was mentally unstable to go out and commit mass murder. It was not the will of God to elect an anti-christ to lead the single most powerful nation on the face of the earth. It was God honoring the choice of the people just like when the people rejected God as thier leader asked God to give them a king like the rest of the world had. So God gave them what they wanted when he gave them Saul as thier King and ruler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted December 21, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,022 Content Per Day: 7.97 Reputation: 21,367 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted December 21, 2012 "Why does God allow children to die at a young age"? For some of you who are reading this post and are mature Christians, your back hair might be standing up! You may be a bit upset that I would give the impression that God should be questioned. I understand. However, if your a baby Christian, you just accepted your alter call or prayed the sinners prayer and you have had a major loss in your life, this might be a good question for you. In fact, you might be on the fence about Jesus Christ and the reason might be that you just dont understand why an all knowing God would take away your spouse, your child, your parent. Some of those passings have been in horrible ways. We can give the standard answer "We live in a broken world". Thats kind of like when you ask your mom why you cant have that piece of candy and she retorts "Because I am the parent and you are the child". True! But it still doesnt explain to me why I cant have candy!! Would you feel better knowing that God is NOT the god of hide and go seek. In 1 Thesolonians Paul exorts us to "Confirm everything". The reason? God has made it known to us (as scripture says) 'by his Spirit'. It may not be the loss of someone you love. It may be a broken marriage or you may be in the process of loosing everything you have. You may be fighting an addiction that you just cant seem to get a hold of. You may not understand why, as a Christian who loves and tries to follow the teachings of Jesus, you must go through such horrible things. In fact, you may wonder why you have to face these things and in fact some of those who dont believe at all and never want to, seem to live a normal peaceful life. For those of you who have been saved for some time, I would love for you to chime in on how God worked you through major trials in your life. This would really be helpful for new believers reading this post. I write a series of articles for the Examiner online. As a point of reference, I am attaching the link to my latest article entitled "Why does God allow bad things to happen". I'd really love some feed back on the article OR this topic in the blog. http://www.examiner....d-things-happen I look forward to great conversation that glorifies the Lord! The question you ask is a very common one and worthy of an answer. Unfortunatly many people blame God for what man has done and are always asking questions like yours. Here is what I know from scripture. God gave us a very special gift just like he did the angels he also created. He gave us "The Choice To Choose" and we can choose to kill or not to kill for any reason we see fit whether it be for murder or self defence. I don't believe that Adam and Eve were meant to die a death as we know it. However when Adam did not do his God given job, which was to keep watch over Eve to make sure that she kept the only law God gave them to obey, which was not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, sin, death and destruction was introduced into the perfect world that God created. Yes I have meditated upon the sovereignty of God in this as the outcome is still God so willed! However the depth of the reality in which you say God did not will sin to be-> is true as seen in the devil being adversarial, enemy of God... the actual thought of God not being in a thing gives rise due to sin (lies) but according to truth not possible (omnipresence) and then the availability of examining such deepens the appreciation of God and His everything to that of life! Truly the boundless borders of God is wonders upon wonders for us throughout all eternity and His Ways the freedom of love and life in Holiness... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warriorforJesus Posted December 23, 2012 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 66 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 16 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2012 I don't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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