War against the homeless???

[Isaiah 6:8]

I agree with lady C.

I am all about helping the homeless, but simply feeding them is only one part.

As the Chinese proverb says

"Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach him to fish, he'll feed himself for a life time"

We need to do more then just give out handouts, that is not really helping, we need to get them Jesus, we need to get them off the drugs and in to being productive member of society. I have helped many ministries that do just that. I have worked with homeless and even as part of a missions trip to inner city San Francisco had to live just like a homeless person for the day. I know the struggles on both ends.

BTW Most people are homeless mostly because they choose a life style that leads them that way. Drugs and alcohol are a huge issue, not because of the economy. Some even chose it because they make more money, a lot of the people begging and taking handouts actually have apartments etc, some in some of the busier sections can make upwards of 50,000/year and some break over 90k, tax free.

Should we feed them, yes love them, yes, but we need to step it up and reach them for Jesus and get them out of the lifestyle choices they have made.

[Guest]

With Jesus

Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. Mark 6:27-34

All Things Are Possible

Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. Mark 9:23-24

[oldzimm]

This pass weekend, I was talking to a fella that was out in Los Vegas this past year. The man said he was only there about three hours playing a slot machine, pulled a five dollar voucher from it and walked outside. There was a homeless man there and he gave the voucher to him. At that time the cops came running up arrested the homeless man and chased this fella down. The cops asked him what he given the homeless man, he said all he did was give him the five dollar voucher. The police said it was illegal to give money to beggars. Being a tourist and only being in Vegas for only three hours, he didn't know that and the police left him go.

So the bottom line is, in Vegas you can't give money to the poor, but it is okay to give money to prostitutes. Go figure!

i live in vegas, and i give money, food, and clothing to homeless people all the time. i've never had a cop get onto me for it at all. they DO have a city ordinance that you can't set up and pass out food in public parks though.

there are certain places that the city does not want to see the homeless population. is in city parks, because frankly, the homeless crowd does tend to leave behind a lot of dangerous stuff on the ground... broken bottles, dirty needles, etc. hence the ordinance banning distribution of food in public parks.

the other is on the strip harassing and scamming tourists. THAT is the reason the guy you were talking to got questioned by the cops. if he'd been two blocks off the strip, nobody would have questioned him. nobody would have cared. hundreds of homeless people stand on every street corner imaginable, holding signs, walking among cars, hanging out in parking lots to beg. the cops are well aware of their presence and unless a store owner complains, they're left alone. so are the people who stop to offer them money or food.

and if you drive down las vegas blvd (aka the strip) further north, away from the tourists, you'll see thousands of homeless, hanging out under bridges or in fields, sitting outside their tents that line the main streets just trying to get a bit of fresh air, and getting their needs tended to by the nearby salvation army and free clinic.

FYI, prostitution is illegal in vegas. anyone caught giving money to a hooker here is going straight to jail, not just getting pulled aside for a talking-to. it's one of the most common misconceptions about vegas, the whole 'prostitution is legal' thing. truth is, it's not legal in ANY populated part of the state.

Thank-you LadyC, for bringing to light the myth about Los Vegas an prostitution, I would of never have known otherwise.

[Guest LadyC]

you're welcome oldzimm!

most people think that since prostitution is legal in nevada, it's legal in las vegas. after all, we're not called sin city for nothing, right? and true, it is rampant even here in vegas. it's just not legal. the legal prostitution is done in very remote areas. all those famous brothels you hear about are at least a 20 minute drive from the nearest gas station. i'm not kidding. and almost all of them are dingy little mobile homes in the middle of nowhere. only the most famous of all actually have "ranches". and they're still a long ways off.

that being said, there are smut peddlers all over the strip shoving business cards and "trade directories" into the hands of tourists. and those peddlers don't discriminate based on age or gender... when we first moved here, they were happily shoving the stuff at my daughter and i... and my daughter was still in middle school at the time! i think she was all of 13 years old. it was pathetic.

the smut ads all promise girls to your room in 20 minutes or less. so it does happen. "escorts" i suppose is the official term for them, and while they're employed outside the county, they certainly do their work "on location". it's a wonder they don't do more sting operations and shut these escort services down, but i suppose for every one that got busted, two more would pop up the next day.

[seeking truth]

please don't bring in the war and the deficit and bailouts into the discussion of helping the homeless. one has nothing to do with the other. it's not the government's job to help the homeless. that's a responsibility of ministry. and as i pointed out, it doesn't take many workers to start, it just takes a willingness to reach out. God will provide the rest according to His abundance.

it's good that you don't deny the problems associated with the homeless situation. but you're still trying to point fingers by saying restricting feeding them is not a solutlion.

what the heck would you propose? allowing the public feeding of the homeless in city parks is encouraging the PROBLEM to persist. it brings MORE homeless people to the parks than were there in the first place, and they don't leave when the food is gone. they hang out because it's a nice place to be... and then they leave behind their broken bottles and used needles. the public parks are for public use... and it's not fair to the FAMILIES who want to bring their children if the homeless are allowed to congregate. not only for what is left behind, but because many of the homeless have emotional problems, drug problems, and many are also criminals, some as sex offenders. these types of people make city parks undesireable for the people they are built for... and for the people whose taxes sustain them.

there have to be restrictions. i'm sorry you don't like it. i'm very much in favor of helping the homeless, but there has to be balance, and what you want is not balance. restricting the feeding of homeless in certain areas may not solve the problem. but NOT restricting it INCREASES the problem.

Have you ever been homeless?

So............you don't think it is the governments job to help the homeless...... but you think it is their job to restrict and/or regulate how others help them? Umm ok.

If the gov wants to push them out of the parks and other areas, then what are they offering up as an alternative? Where should they go then? How does this address the underlying causes of homelessness?

Feeding them is not a cure for homelessness either, and I never said it was. However, they are still human beings and they still need to eat. Not having food security will cause people to steal, beg, and resort to other desperate measures.

What the 'heck' do I propose? Is this a heartfelt, Christian way to ask a question?

Well, first off these people need Christ to release them from their bondage, and yes, that is the job of ministry.

Secondly, these people do have physical needs as well and the trillions of dollars given to criminal bankers and spent on war that is causing people in foriegn lands to become homeless also, could be better spent addressing the root causes of poverty and homelessness at home. Especially given that it is such a scourge on society as you have described.

Money that could be better spent providing people with access to the help that they need to deal with their substance abuse, mental illness or economic insecurities and help them get on their feet.

Perhaps it is not your intent to sound angry and bitter toward the homeless, but it does kinda come across that way.

2Cr 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

And please, don't feel obligated to prove your love for the homeless by telling us all you do for them. That is between you and the Lord.

Mat 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

Edited June 4, 2011 by seeking truth

[Guest LadyC]

no, i haven't been homeless. but my best friend, the one who i go to the park with her children and my grandchildren, she lived on the streets for over a year. WITH her two oldest daughters. and NOT in a shelter because at the time there wasn't adequate facilities for them.

it is not the government's job. you heard me right. it's the role of ministry to tend to these people's needs.

the government DOES provide services for these people. tons of tax dollars have gone into building new shelters. a few years ago, a huge new men's shelter was built. more recently than that, the women's/children's shelter was not only expanded, but a pet shelter was built adjoining the women & children's shelter so that those who found themselves in the streets after the housing collapse would not lose their pets.

we have at least two free clinics that i know of in town. nice ones. they're their to take care of the medical needs of the homeless. i know because i used to volunteer at one of them.

the money that went into the war effort and into bailing out the banks would never have gone towards helping the homeless out, nor should it have. you may not like that i say "nor should it have" but set that aside for the moment and realize that our differing opinion on that matter is irrelevant. what IS relevant is that the money WOULD NOT have gone to the homeless, even if it had not been spent on the banks and the war.

and i'm going to be really nice here and just politely point out that i come from a long line of military people in my family, and my daughter and son-in-law met and fell in love while serving in iraq. i am in full support of this war, and nothing makes me madder than people who think too much money was spent equipping our troops. so let's not go there.

the government really doesn't have a role in homelessness. not a legitimate one, nor a biblical one. again, that is the responsibility of ministry. can i say that again? nah, think you heard me. but it's not just my worthless little opinion, it's God's opinion too. He is the one who commanded that role be taken by ministry.

the role of law enforcement is to protect and serve the people. ALL people. they can't do that without a framework of laws, which exist because of local government. so yes, it absolutely is the role of the government to restrict activities that put others at risk.

i'm not at all bitter and angry at the homeless. but people like you, who act like the homeless should have all rights granted and that people who are not homeless have lesser rights tick me off beyond belief. the only reason i sound bitter and angry in your ears is because you don't care about anything but your own agenda.

i care about people. ALL people. homed or un-homed.

[Fez]

One way to help the poor is government funded projects. I manage a few......

Here is how it works. There are strict guidelines I have to follow.

Lets take alien plant control (it is a huge problem here and is threatening our natural areas big time).

I have 54 contractors. Each employs 20 workers. Stats show each worker who gets a daily wage supports 10 people (extended family). So 10,800 people benefit from the program.

I have to employ 80% women, 20% youth (18 - 25) and 2% disabled. The people employed cannot receive other government grants, pensions, etc, and must be the sole family provider. I estimate (so studies that have been done point out), that at least 30% of the workers are HIV positive.

The people employed get medicals before starting work, and training while in the program (HIV, first aid, health and safety, primary health care, small business development, brick laying, welding, reading, writing, maths, etc).

I have some wonderful success stories stemming from this government initiative. There are people who have excited the program who have large poultry farms, small construction companies, catering businesses, etc (who we then use in other aspects of what we do). Not everyone makes a go of it because not all of us are entrepreneurs, but those that do hire more people and are no longer a burden to the economy, but an asset.

Our art program (yes art program!), has taken people out of the bush (after selection), and they are trained by some of our top artists. Forty have been through the system. Twelve are making a living (6 of them a very good living - like sculptures in the Presidential suite of our new soccer stadium for the world cup).

27 young people were assessed and are now in university studying subjects from business administration to hotel management (to come back into the tourist industry in our area and contribute).

Some of these people walk to work at 4 am and get home at 6 pm. They arrive for selection looking like they are half dead, spiritually and mentally, and leave the program different people.

They have a sense of self worth. and if anything, I think this is the most important part of the program. A restoration of self worth.

It can be done. It takes political will, lots of money and a deep commitment by those running the programs to see them succeed.

These programs run your life, and they have a way of drawing you in to people.

As an aside, and nothing to do with the program, South and I have run prayer meetings in their local churches, and this has resulted in a deeper understanding of the people I serve, and enables them to see the "non worldly" side of me.

For all the things my government does wrong, this is one they are getting right.

[Guest]

For all the things my government does wrong, this is one they are getting right.

Hallelujah~!

[winsomebulldog]

I live in a rural area, so homelessness isn't all that much of an issue. There is one man that my husband and I have seen repeatedly in one of the larger nearby towns. He sets up at an intersection (usually the same one) with a backpack and a sign saying he's homeless and needs food. I've also seen him with a sign that says he'll work for food. Needless to say, few people will offer him food. They roll down their window and give him money. A mile or so down the road is a small strip mall that contains a Chinese restaurant, a Sears store, a Butternut bread store, and a bowling alley that has an attached liquor store. We were at the bread store one day when we saw him come out of the liquor store with a large brown paper sack. Large enough to hold several bottles. And this isn't a store that sells anything other than liquor. Trust me on that.

On another day we saw him heading into a small hotel that sits between the liquor store and the corner where he "works." It's right beside a gas station that contains a decent convenience store and between the hotel and his corner is a Kroger and a Wal-Mart.

Frankly, I have trouble buying his homeless act.

I'm not trying to say that there aren't a lot of people out there who are homeless and in need of help, but I know for sure that a sizable number of them are like this man or are in the situation due to their own choices or lifestyle. Alcohol and/or drugs drag many people down. And a lot of the homeless with mental health issues could lead productive lives but they choose not to take their meds.

I have no solution to the problem. There are many who are legitimately in need of help, but there are so many others who have no desire to change at all. These are the ones I think cities are trying to protect their citizens and their tourists from. Like Lady C said, a public park is not the place to be encouraging the homeless to hang out. It just doesn't make sense.

[~candice~]

One way to help the poor is government funded projects. I manage a few......

...

I have some wonderful success stories stemming from this government initiative.

...

For all the things my government does wrong, this is one they are getting right.

Well, dems fighting words in capitalist worthy, but I agree. We need not neglect what our government can do, while maintaining our own responsibility.