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War against the homeless???


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Grace to you,

Not having food security will cause people to steal, beg, and resort to other desperate measures.

Please explain "Food Security."

The Lord has said this;

Mr 14:7

For you have the poor with you always, and whenever you will you may do them good: but me you have not always.

Your Chief concern is Christ. Then the Lord says that "Y-O-U" can do good to them whenever you wish.

Please expound on the concept of the Lord commanding you to give to Caesar so that he can feed the poor. Use Scripture.:thumbsup:

Peace,

Dave

Hello Matthitjah.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.

When I said food security, I meant it more in the context of knowing that if you are hungry, you can simply walk to your fridge or cupboard and have something to eat. You know the food is there. That you don't have to stress out or worry about where your next meal is coming from.

I didn't mean it at all in the context of giving unto Caesar so that he can feed the poor.

My apologies if I wasn't more clear.

God Bless

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Homelessness can be a tool that measures our economic temperature. I would guess that if the jobs were there, the number would become lower, but they would not disappear. Not all homeless people want to work and move on. Be it as it is, they enjoy their freedom, even if it means having to beg for food.

I can only imagine that the only place the homeless can go is to the parks, if they are in a city. Everything else is owned by someone and they could be arrested for loitering. I see the problem as when you bring food to the park for those who need it, the word spreads and many more will come, which this would go against what the police are trying to do ... get them out of the park. That is why it is important for the church to step in and open their doors to feed them.

Changing the location of this ministry, feeding the poor, does not mean you can't go to the parks and talk with them about Christ.

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I can only imagine that the only place the homeless can go is to the parks, if they are in a city. Everything else is owned by someone and they could be arrested for loitering. I

Yes. Thank you for sharing that.

I was homeless at one time. However, I was fortunate enough that I was not on the streets. I had temporary shelter but I felt that my presence there was a burden. It really was a most horrible feeling. I felt so completely lost and alone. It was the only time in my life that I seriously considered suicide. I was not a Christian at the time. I tried to spend as much time as I could away from the house, so they wouldn't even know I was there kinda thing. I spent my days looking for work and when I wanted to find some peace and tranquilty, I would go to the park. It was so nice to sit on the grass in the shade of a tree, listening to the birds sing, watching the clouds and such. It made me feel closer to God, even though I didn't know Christ at the time. I spent a lot of time there, crying and praying, and there was a solace I found in it's natural beauty.

Much less depressing than hanging out in a back alley behind a dumpster or under a bridge.

Edited by seeking truth
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Guest LadyC

seeker, i appreciate and accept your humble apology.

just so you know, it was the comment about caring more about 'my precious parks' than the homeless that got my ire up. the rest of the differences really didn't bother me as much. i absolutely love helping the homeless. i feel that God has called me to that ministry, and i help in whatever ways i can, whether it's at the food bank (where my contribution now is only as part of the entertainment, because i sing with the band sometimes), or at the free clinic where i volunteered before i got a job, or out of the trunk of my car... i love to make these people feel like someone cares enough to call them by name, to sit and share a hamburger or slice of pizza with, etc.

and i want you to understand, it's not the parks i care about. it's the precious children for whom those parks exist. as much as i care about the homeless, there has to be boundaries. and hanging out (whether they're engaging in criminal activity or not) at a place designed for families to bring young children is just should not be an option.

perhaps it's because i live in an area much UNlike the one that onelight describes. there are lots of places besides parks to hang out. and for the most part, here in the vegas valley, most of them can be found in these other places. the "washes"... i never knew what a wash was til i moved here. but a wash is a huge concrete ditch about 20 feet wide and 8 feet deep that runs from one side of the valley to the next, designed to channel mountain run-off and rain water. there are lots of them in this city, and like i said, they run the entire length of the city. typically they're fenced off, but there is usually a strip of land about 6-10' wide between the concrete ditch and the fence. these often become homeless 'cities'.

we also have a lot of desert area in and around the city. those also become 'home' to the homeless. and forclosed houses... in fact, catty-corner from my house is an abandoned house that was foreclosed on. the windows appear to be boarded up in front, but the wood has been taken off in back. there are a number of homeless people living in that house, and they don't even attempt to be discreet about their comings and goings. it doesn't bother me that they're there. what does bother me is that i've seen a lot of homes trashed by homeless occupants. (my landlord often takes me with her when looking to buy new properties, so believe me, i've seen a lot!)

our local government does fund things like new shelters, or expanded shelters, even pet shelters. they provide food stamps and medical care. there are programs to help them get off the street and into low rent housing. hard to get into those programs, but they do exist. and i don't resent the programs that exist, although i do resent the abuse that occurs within the system, leaving it under-funded for those who truly need it. but i certainly don't believe the federal government should be involved in homeless issues. so war money and bail out money not only wouldn't have, but shouldn't have been redirected to help homeless people.

you're right, about churches not being contained in a building. but no ministry needs to DRAW homeless to a place that is designated for children and families to have a safe place to play. that's what happens, at least here, when ministries choose parks to pass out food. and there is no way i can ever support that. i DO believe they should draw them to the church... because i know from experience that when you bring them to church on food days, they'll feel more welcome on sermon days. of course God is not confined to a building. and there's nothing wrong with ministries going out to the streets, either. but if a ministry is going to take it to the streets, it needs to take it to where the homeless are, not to a park and invite the homeless to come.

i know around here, that doesn't always happen. in fact, my pastor gave me a long lecture one time about that, because i was putting myself in harms way. now, i'm not in agreement with him, at least not entirely. but i do understand that the danger is very real. if i'd been going into the washes or the desert areas where large numbers of homeless congregate, i would have agreed more. still though, he had a point. and i think that's the biggest issue with ministries. they ALL are concerned about safety, and for that reason, they won't go into the areas where the masses of homeless live, and often, they won't invite them to the church property. instead, they invite them to a place where families are supposed to bring little children to play. the logic there is pretty twisted, IMO.

personally, i never feared for myself when dealing with the homeless. i knew God was by my side.

anyway, thank you for the heartfelt apology. it's accepted.

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Showing love to the needed is a Christian act.

Yet, the city should provide proper locations for feeding homeless. I see a lot of homeless and frankly many of them after using public restrooms miss to flush the toilet and wash their hands, .... In many parks play little children, pregnant women go for a walk. Concentrating homeless people (and that what feeding in parks would do) in parks increases the risk of a diseases among children. If you go downtown Los Angeles you will see many homeless urinate wherevere they can find a place and whole sections of streets smell like urine.

Many homeless people are homeless because of a mental problem and are not able to take care of themselves. Homeless people with mentall issues do not belong to streets, and they should be taken careoff in proper institutions (-because they cannot take care of themselves.)

Helping homeless must continue, but must be done with consideration for others. (It is more complicated than it looks)

Edited by Love Wisdom Truth
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Showing love to the needed is a Christian act.

Yet, the city should provide proper locations for feeding homeless. I see a lot of homeless and frankly many of them after using public restrooms miss to flush the toilet and wash their hands, .... In many parks play little children, pregnant women go for a walk. Concentrating homeless people (and that what feeding in parks would do) in parks increases the risk of a diseases among children. If you go downtown Los Angeles you will see many homeless urinate wherevere they can find a place and whole sections of streets smell like urine.

Many homeless people are homeless because of a mental problem and are not able to take care of themselves. Homeless people with mentall issues do not belong to streets, and they should be taken careoff in proper institutions (-because they cannot take care of themselves.)

Helping homeless must continue, but must be done with consideration for others. (It is more complicated than it looks)

I was homeless in LA, among other places. I slept in the back of an abandoned box truck and walked the streets during the day. You say that the government should provide for the homeless who have mental issues. They did until the mid 70's where, through a national wide study, it was proven that these same people were abused while in the institutions you speak of, and they also became institutionalized. They had a roof over their head, clothes on their back, food in their stomach, warmth on cold nights, coolness during hot days, and a recreational facility they could sign out to ... why would they wan to leave? They knew how hard it was for them to live in an open society. The government is not the ones to take care of them, Christians are, by the commandment of God to love your neighbors as ourselves.

I can also tell you that the vast majority of the homeless population are not violent people. They do not spread germs as you say, in fact, the schools these kids go to and the hospitals mothers go to have far more germs then an open air park.

The urine in the streets come from the alcoholics and addicts who don't care. These represent a larger part of the homeless, but do not speak for them all. I have met business men who lost their business for one reason or another in the shelter I work at. I have met kids just old enough to be an adult there because their parents were sick of having to deal with them and wanted to live their own life selfishly. There are as many reason for homelessness as there are hairs on your head; each one has their own story.

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Guest Butero

The regulations are all the more essential in the case of the homeless, Barton said, because "poor people are the most vulnerable to foodborne illness and also are the least likely to have access to health care."

So to this person thinks letting someone starve is better than letting them take the slight risk of getting food poisoning? No it's more likely they think that the homeless are a blight on their "pretty" city and think that by letting people feed them it keeps them around. This stuff makes me sick.

I used to work at a Teen Challenge home. We would have as many as a dozen girls staying there, with 4 to a room. Some had no place else to go. The state made the home reduce the number of girls to something like 4 because of the number of bathrooms they had to share. The state would rather have people living on the street, than allow slight overcrowding. The government needs to get out of our business.

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seeker, i appreciate and accept your humble apology.

just so you know, it was the comment about caring more about 'my precious parks' than the homeless that got my ire up. the rest of the differences really didn't bother me as much. i absolutely love helping the homeless. i feel that God has called me to that ministry, and i help in whatever ways i can, whether it's at the food bank (where my contribution now is only as part of the entertainment, because i sing with the band sometimes), or at the free clinic where i volunteered before i got a job, or out of the trunk of my car... i love to make these people feel like someone cares enough to call them by name, to sit and share a hamburger or slice of pizza with, etc.

and i want you to understand, it's not the parks i care about. it's the precious children for whom those parks exist. as much as i care about the homeless, there has to be boundaries. and hanging out (whether they're engaging in criminal activity or not) at a place designed for families to bring young children is just should not be an option.

perhaps it's because i live in an area much UNlike the one that onelight describes. there are lots of places besides parks to hang out. and for the most part, here in the vegas valley, most of them can be found in these other places. the "washes"... i never knew what a wash was til i moved here. but a wash is a huge concrete ditch about 20 feet wide and 8 feet deep that runs from one side of the valley to the next, designed to channel mountain run-off and rain water. there are lots of them in this city, and like i said, they run the entire length of the city. typically they're fenced off, but there is usually a strip of land about 6-10' wide between the concrete ditch and the fence. these often become homeless 'cities'.

we also have a lot of desert area in and around the city. those also become 'home' to the homeless. and forclosed houses... in fact, catty-corner from my house is an abandoned house that was foreclosed on. the windows appear to be boarded up in front, but the wood has been taken off in back. there are a number of homeless people living in that house, and they don't even attempt to be discreet about their comings and goings. it doesn't bother me that they're there. what does bother me is that i've seen a lot of homes trashed by homeless occupants. (my landlord often takes me with her when looking to buy new properties, so believe me, i've seen a lot!)

our local government does fund things like new shelters, or expanded shelters, even pet shelters. they provide food stamps and medical care. there are programs to help them get off the street and into low rent housing. hard to get into those programs, but they do exist. and i don't resent the programs that exist, although i do resent the abuse that occurs within the system, leaving it under-funded for those who truly need it. but i certainly don't believe the federal government should be involved in homeless issues. so war money and bail out money not only wouldn't have, but shouldn't have been redirected to help homeless people.

you're right, about churches not being contained in a building. but no ministry needs to DRAW homeless to a place that is designated for children and families to have a safe place to play. that's what happens, at least here, when ministries choose parks to pass out food. and there is no way i can ever support that. i DO believe they should draw them to the church... because i know from experience that when you bring them to church on food days, they'll feel more welcome on sermon days. of course God is not confined to a building. and there's nothing wrong with ministries going out to the streets, either. but if a ministry is going to take it to the streets, it needs to take it to where the homeless are, not to a park and invite the homeless to come.

i know around here, that doesn't always happen. in fact, my pastor gave me a long lecture one time about that, because i was putting myself in harms way. now, i'm not in agreement with him, at least not entirely. but i do understand that the danger is very real. if i'd been going into the washes or the desert areas where large numbers of homeless congregate, i would have agreed more. still though, he had a point. and i think that's the biggest issue with ministries. they ALL are concerned about safety, and for that reason, they won't go into the areas where the masses of homeless live, and often, they won't invite them to the church property. instead, they invite them to a place where families are supposed to bring little children to play. the logic there is pretty twisted, IMO.

personally, i never feared for myself when dealing with the homeless. i knew God was by my side.

anyway, thank you for the heartfelt apology. it's accepted.

Thank you for accepting my apology.

Sometimes a little slice of humble pie can open my ears a bit and enable me to hear more of what the other person is saying instead of just focusing on my own argument.

Just to let you know, I spent some time yesterday watching videos of the homeless in Vegas, so I saw the washes that you are speaking of. It also gave me a much better understanding of how many homeless there are in Vegas. A lot! It truly is heartbreaking.

When I lived in the city, we didn't have a homeless population that was even near that.

I guess from my own experience years ago of not having a home or any money and being in the city, where can you go to enjoy some peace and tranquility and to enjoy God's natural beauty, especially when you are surrounded by a concrete jungle? A park of course. :)

It just seems a shame to deprive people of that, especially when they have nothing.

However, I do have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

So thank you again for accepting my apology and thank you for all that you do to further the Lord's kingdom.

May He bless you richly LadyC.

Love in His Name,

carolyn

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Guest LadyC

well, i kinda failed to offer an apology to you, too.... i was getting a little bit on a high horse the other day!

i don't think anyone would mind if a homeless person or two (or family, we have lots of homeless families here) enjoyed the public parks, and i'm quite sure they do! but that's a bit of a different situation, because they don't stay in the park 24/7. when they're drawn by food to the parks, they stick around and form 'packs', and don't leave. the parks should be used by all... but for their intended purpose :)

:emot-hug:

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well, i kinda failed to offer an apology to you, too.... i was getting a little bit on a high horse the other day!

i don't think anyone would mind if a homeless person or two (or family, we have lots of homeless families here) enjoyed the public parks, and i'm quite sure they do! but that's a bit of a different situation, because they don't stay in the park 24/7. when they're drawn by food to the parks, they stick around and form 'packs', and don't leave. the parks should be used by all... but for their intended purpose :)

:emot-hug:

All is forgiven LadyC. :emot-hug:

I understand now where you are coming from.

I may be a bit quick to go on the defensive when it comes to the homeless because so often they are treated like subhuman garbage, as I'm sure you know.

It tends to get my dander up.

When I lived in the city I worked with prostitutes, trying to get them off the streets. This is when I first started to come into direct contact with the homeless. There were certain areas that they considered their turf and initially a few of them didn't appreciate my presence there. I was spit at, cursed at and threatened with violence on one occasion. However, showing no fear and persisting in kindness toward them went a long way in breaking down their wall.

Many of the homeless that I got to know are native indian and some of them are very bitter toward white people, cause in Canada we haven't always treated them well. Some of the older ones were ripped away from their families as children and forced to live in Catholic boarding schools where they were physically and sexually abused. As a result they are not very receptive to Christ because they associate Christianity as the white man's religion that caused them so much suffering.

As a Christian you just want to help and save everyone and because there are so many lost souls it can really weigh heavy on your heart. Thankfully we can find comfort in knowing that the Lord is in control and all things work toward His purpose.

Praise and Glory to our Merciful Lord.

Edited by seeking truth
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