three resurrections

[OneLight]

Let's back up a bit here. I agree that both are supernatural events of God. Yet, Jesus said to loose Lazarus and to let him go, but scripture does not say one way or another about those who rose from the dead after Christ's resurrection, just that "many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." So after their appearance, what then? This is where we "guess". You said you believed they returned to the grave while I believe they went to be with Christ. The other option is that they lived on until they died again, which is against scripture "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment".

So, that is where I am with this topic. God can do what He wills, which is far beyond our imagination. Yet, He will not go against His own scripture. Those who rose from death cannot die again, so what happens to them?

Yes, but by that same standard, Lazarus cannot die twice either.

Yup! So, when they let him go, where did he go to? Was he risen in his new body? So many questions with no scriptural answers. The last we here of Lazarus in John is that the High Priests wanted to put him to death because many followed Jesus because of Lazarus.

[archmichael]

Let's back up a bit here. I agree that both are supernatural events of God. Yet, Jesus said to loose Lazarus and to let him go, but scripture does not say one way or another about those who rose from the dead after Christ's resurrection, just that "many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." So after their appearance, what then? This is where we "guess". You said you believed they returned to the grave while I believe they went to be with Christ. The other option is that they lived on until they died again, which is against scripture "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment".

So, that is where I am with this topic. God can do what He wills, which is far beyond our imagination. Yet, He will not go against His own scripture. Those who rose from death cannot die again, so what happens to them?

Yes, but by that same standard, Lazarus cannot die twice either.

If I may add my two cents here....

Is it possible the OT saints rose with Christ on his death, whilest, The Rapture in our future is strictly for NT saints? Is there any scripture that could support this idea?

Maybe that could justify why the "souls under the altar" in Rev 6:9, who btw, were "slain for the word of God" could be where they were. Christ's name never figures into that passage. Furthermore, wasn't Christ quoted as saying that the thief would be in paradise that day with Christ ( I know some disagree with this ) ?

Personally, I believe anyone risen from the dead MUST have ascended to at least the 2nd heaven with their new bodies. This would be in keeping with Christ's example when he told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't ascended yet.

[Bold Believer]

Well, the Greek language may offer clues.

In John 12, The Holy Spirit uses a totally different word, egeirō (eh gay ro) to mean raised from the dead, concerning Lazarus. Whenever the final last day resurrection is spoken of, the word anastasis (anah-stah-cease) is used. So Lazarus was raised from the dead, but he had no change of stasis. Jesus had a change of stasis, a metamorphosis from one type of body to another. I believe therein lies the difference. Lazarus did NOT have the same type of body that Jesus had after the resurrection, but the same type of body he died in. The chief priests later sought to kill Lazarus. Jesus walked amongst us 40 days after the resurrection, and unless there are unwritten accounts, no one tried to kill Him, ostensibly because it would be impossible.

It would make no sense that the chief priests would try to kill Lazarus, unless it were possible, which leads me to believe that Lazarus had a (for lack of a better English term) restored body, not a resurrected one.

[Bold Believer]

Let's back up a bit here. I agree that both are supernatural events of God. Yet, Jesus said to loose Lazarus and to let him go, but scripture does not say one way or another about those who rose from the dead after Christ's resurrection, just that "many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many." So after their appearance, what then? This is where we "guess". You said you believed they returned to the grave while I believe they went to be with Christ. The other option is that they lived on until they died again, which is against scripture "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment".

So, that is where I am with this topic. God can do what He wills, which is far beyond our imagination. Yet, He will not go against His own scripture. Those who rose from death cannot die again, so what happens to them?

Yes, but by that same standard, Lazarus cannot die twice either.

If I may add my two cents here....

Is it possible the OT saints rose with Christ on his death, whilest, The Rapture in our future is strictly for NT saints? Is there any scripture that could support this idea?

Maybe that could justify why the "souls under the altar" in Rev 6:9, who btw, were "slain for the word of God" could be where they were. Christ's name never figures into that passage. Furthermore, wasn't Christ quoted as saying that the thief would be in paradise that day with Christ ( I know some disagree with this ) ?

Personally, I believe anyone risen from the dead MUST have ascended to at least the 2nd heaven with their new bodies. This would be in keeping with Christ's example when he told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't ascended yet.

That was for MARY'S protection, not Jesus'. I suspect that had she touched him at that point, she would have died like Nadab and Abihu did when they touched the Ark of the Covenant.

[Fez]

Ok let me stir a bit here, because when I have posted this before there has been mass skepticism.

My brother and I have been working into Mozambique for over 15 years now. We have built an outreach house and 3 weeks of the month at least, he is there. We work into local communities and churches, and support a mission. It is growing to the state where we have opened a trust fund as people are wishing to help support it. (I am not advertising here - God is going to supply our needs without me having to do that)

In this time we have seen miracle after miracle. Mostly because of the childlike faith the people (who have nothing else), in Jesus, and our faith in Him wanting us there.

There is a 7 year old boy called John. He is the son of a woman who attends the local mission church. Some of these people walk 4 hours to church on a Sunday, and 4 hours back. They hold all night worship meetings in the church. I heard them from my tent, which until we built the house, was 60 meters from the church. (I could not maintain all night, started falling asleep).

Five years ago his mother arrived at our camp. John was in her arms. He had been attacked by malaria (very common in the area - we take major precautions, and by the grace of God have not been attacked yet). We often had a queue of 20 people outside our tents in the morning with all sorts of ailments, from rotting teeth, to abscesses, etc.(I have paramedic training). We treated them as best we could until we were warned we were falling foul of Mozambique government regulations and if we treated someone, even with mild pain tablets and they died, we could be held responsible. So we started to pray in earnest. The clinic, which is now world class with dutch doctors, and operating room,etc, run by Doctors for Life, was still being constructed. It is now fully functional. God is good!

John was dead. Dead, Dead. He was cold, he was a Grey, yellow color from the malaria. He was not breathing. He had no pulse. He was dead.

People are talking about seeing dead bodies. I have. Many. Killed alongside me, and others found days later after we did what we used to do before. Even today on search and rescue I see bodies (though not as often thank the Lord). I have seen people shot, eaten by crocodiles, killed by Hippo, and having had heart attacks while swimming. I know a dead person when I see one.

John was dead. He was dead. His mother was screaming and crying (as one would expect). She had walked over an hour to our camp with her dead son in her arms. He was dead.

My brother screamed "No Lord, not him, not today!" And started praying over John. Who was dead.

After 10 minutes or so, John started moaning, coughed, and began to move in his mothers arms.

We took him to the local clinic, who had told his mother John was dead. He was treated for a few days with IV and supplements.

The last time I saw John he was 7 years old, wearing a ragged pair of shorts and a torn shirt, running around in the dust with the other kids, with the typical running nose, and the attendant flies (this is Mozambique after all).

John is not in heaven, he is alive, well and running around after being dead, as far as I know, for at least two hours, maybe more.

Say what you will, believe what you will, I know John was dead. He was dead.

The Lord brought him back because of a mothers faith and my brothers prayers. People we take with us to Mozambique are told the story and see John and meet his mother. If not for the fact we tell them the story they would not know that John had been brought back by the Lord from death. They would just drive past a little boy playing in the dust with his friends.

Dead is dead. Two hours or two years. "All things are possible". Can one play in the dust, or ride a donkey after the Lord brings one back? That is the very least of the amazing grace our Lord can bestow on us.

John will die eventually. Again. God knows when. But the last time was not his time.

I cry when I remember this. Every time.

Believe me or not. I have nothing to prove. I know what I saw. And the community at Zavora do as well.

It's called faith....

[enoob57]

Ok let me stir a bit here, because when I have posted this before there has been mass skepticism.

My brother and I have been working into Mozambique for over 15 years now. We have built an outreach house and 3 weeks of the month at least, he is there. We work into local communities and churches, and support a mission. It is growing to the state where we have opened a trust fund as people are wishing to help support it. (I am not advertising here - God is going to supply our needs without me having to do that)

In this time we have seen miracle after miracle. Mostly because of the childlike faith the people (who have nothing else), in Jesus, and our faith in Him wanting us there.

There is a 7 year old boy called John. He is the son of a woman who attends the local mission church. Some of these people walk 4 hours to church on a Sunday, and 4 hours back. They hold all night worship meetings in the church. I heard them from my tent, which until we built the house, was 60 meters from the church. (I could not maintain all night, started falling asleep).

Five years ago his mother arrived at our camp. John was in her arms. He had been attacked by malaria (very common in the area - we take major precautions, and by the grace of God have not been attacked yet). We often had a queue of 20 people outside our tents in the morning with all sorts of ailments, from rotting teeth, to abscesses, etc.(I have paramedic training). We treated them as best we could until we were warned we were falling foul of Mozambique government regulations and if we treated someone, even with mild pain tablets and they died, we could be held responsible. So we started to pray in earnest. The clinic, which is now world class with dutch doctors, and operating room,etc, run by Doctors for Life, was still being constructed. It is now fully functional. God is good!

John was dead. Dead, Dead. He was cold, he was a Grey, yellow color from the malaria. He was not breathing. He had no pulse. He was dead.

People are talking about seeing dead bodies. I have. Many. Killed alongside me, and others found days later after we did what we used to do before. Even today on search and rescue I see bodies (though not as often thank the Lord). I have seen people shot, eaten by crocodiles, killed by Hippo, and having had heart attacks while swimming. I know a dead person when I see one.

John was dead. He was dead. His mother was screaming and crying (as one would expect). She had walked over an hour to our camp with her dead son in her arms. He was dead.

My brother screamed "No Lord, not him, not today!" And started praying over John. Who was dead.

After 10 minutes or so, John started moaning, coughed, and began to move in his mothers arms.

We took him to the local clinic, who had told his mother John was dead. He was treated for a few days with IV and supplements.

The last time I saw John he was 7 years old, wearing a ragged pair of shorts and a torn shirt, running around in the dust with the other kids, with the typical running nose, and the attendant flies (this is Mozambique after all).

John is not in heaven, he is alive, well and running around after being dead, as far as I know, for at least two hours, maybe more.

Say what you will, believe what you will, I know John was dead. He was dead.

The Lord brought him back because of a mothers faith and my brothers prayers. People we take with us to Mozambique are told the story and see John and meet his mother. If not for the fact we tell them the story they would not know that John had been brought back by the Lord from death. They would just drive past a little boy playing in the dust with his friends.

Dead is dead. Two hours or two years. "All things are possible". Can one play in the dust, or ride a donkey after the Lord brings one back? That is the very least of the amazing grace our Lord can bestow on us.

John will die eventually. Again. God knows when. But the last time was not his time.

I cry when I remember this. Every time.

Believe me or not. I have nothing to prove. I know what I saw. And the community at Zavora do as well.

It's called faith....

You know Fez what our Lord says...

1 Peter 1:20-21

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

NKJV

God has whispered His Truth into your eye for in your heart you knew it already to be true... thank you brother for standing in a hard place and allowing His Softness of Love to show forth! Love Steven

[Fez]

Ok let me stir a bit here, because when I have posted this before there has been mass skepticism.

My brother and I have been working into Mozambique for over 15 years now. We have built an outreach house and 3 weeks of the month at least, he is there. We work into local communities and churches, and support a mission. It is growing to the state where we have opened a trust fund as people are wishing to help support it. (I am not advertising here - God is going to supply our needs without me having to do that)

In this time we have seen miracle after miracle. Mostly because of the childlike faith the people (who have nothing else), in Jesus, and our faith in Him wanting us there.

There is a 7 year old boy called John. He is the son of a woman who attends the local mission church. Some of these people walk 4 hours to church on a Sunday, and 4 hours back. They hold all night worship meetings in the church. I heard them from my tent, which until we built the house, was 60 meters from the church. (I could not maintain all night, started falling asleep).

Five years ago his mother arrived at our camp. John was in her arms. He had been attacked by malaria (very common in the area - we take major precautions, and by the grace of God have not been attacked yet). We often had a queue of 20 people outside our tents in the morning with all sorts of ailments, from rotting teeth, to abscesses, etc.(I have paramedic training). We treated them as best we could until we were warned we were falling foul of Mozambique government regulations and if we treated someone, even with mild pain tablets and they died, we could be held responsible. So we started to pray in earnest. The clinic, which is now world class with dutch doctors, and operating room,etc, run by Doctors for Life, was still being constructed. It is now fully functional. God is good!

John was dead. Dead, Dead. He was cold, he was a Grey, yellow color from the malaria. He was not breathing. He had no pulse. He was dead.

People are talking about seeing dead bodies. I have. Many. Killed alongside me, and others found days later after we did what we used to do before. Even today on search and rescue I see bodies (though not as often thank the Lord). I have seen people shot, eaten by crocodiles, killed by Hippo, and having had heart attacks while swimming. I know a dead person when I see one.

John was dead. He was dead. His mother was screaming and crying (as one would expect). She had walked over an hour to our camp with her dead son in her arms. He was dead.

My brother screamed "No Lord, not him, not today!" And started praying over John. Who was dead.

After 10 minutes or so, John started moaning, coughed, and began to move in his mothers arms.

We took him to the local clinic, who had told his mother John was dead. He was treated for a few days with IV and supplements.

The last time I saw John he was 7 years old, wearing a ragged pair of shorts and a torn shirt, running around in the dust with the other kids, with the typical running nose, and the attendant flies (this is Mozambique after all).

John is not in heaven, he is alive, well and running around after being dead, as far as I know, for at least two hours, maybe more.

Say what you will, believe what you will, I know John was dead. He was dead.

The Lord brought him back because of a mothers faith and my brothers prayers. People we take with us to Mozambique are told the story and see John and meet his mother. If not for the fact we tell them the story they would not know that John had been brought back by the Lord from death. They would just drive past a little boy playing in the dust with his friends.

Dead is dead. Two hours or two years. "All things are possible". Can one play in the dust, or ride a donkey after the Lord brings one back? That is the very least of the amazing grace our Lord can bestow on us.

John will die eventually. Again. God knows when. But the last time was not his time.

I cry when I remember this. Every time.

Believe me or not. I have nothing to prove. I know what I saw. And the community at Zavora do as well.

It's called faith....

You know Fez what our Lord says...

1 Peter 1:20-21

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

NKJV

God has whispered His Truth into your eye for in your heart you knew it already to be true... thank you brother for standing in a hard place and allowing His Softness of Love to show forth! Love Steven

This is not directed at anyone in particular. But why is it that we find it hard to testify about stuff like this when we have seen it, and more, with our own eyes?

Why should we be concerned with others opinions or comments? Have we become so PC or hurt by so many false claims that we are numb to them? Are we too "knowledgeable" in our beliefs that we cannot accept miracles as occuring daily? Has the west become immune through a lack of faith, so that we only see these signs and wonders happening where all people have is a grass hut and Jesus, and are considered rich if they have a pig tied to a coconut tree with a piece of old rope?

Just a thought.

[~candice~]

Ok let me stir a bit here, because when I have posted this before there has been mass skepticism.

My brother and I have been working into Mozambique for over 15 years now. We have built an outreach house and 3 weeks of the month at least, he is there. We work into local communities and churches, and support a mission. It is growing to the state where we have opened a trust fund as people are wishing to help support it. (I am not advertising here - God is going to supply our needs without me having to do that)

In this time we have seen miracle after miracle. Mostly because of the childlike faith the people (who have nothing else), in Jesus, and our faith in Him wanting us there.

There is a 7 year old boy called John. He is the son of a woman who attends the local mission church. Some of these people walk 4 hours to church on a Sunday, and 4 hours back. They hold all night worship meetings in the church. I heard them from my tent, which until we built the house, was 60 meters from the church. (I could not maintain all night, started falling asleep).

Five years ago his mother arrived at our camp. John was in her arms. He had been attacked by malaria (very common in the area - we take major precautions, and by the grace of God have not been attacked yet). We often had a queue of 20 people outside our tents in the morning with all sorts of ailments, from rotting teeth, to abscesses, etc.(I have paramedic training). We treated them as best we could until we were warned we were falling foul of Mozambique government regulations and if we treated someone, even with mild pain tablets and they died, we could be held responsible. So we started to pray in earnest. The clinic, which is now world class with dutch doctors, and operating room,etc, run by Doctors for Life, was still being constructed. It is now fully functional. God is good!

John was dead. Dead, Dead. He was cold, he was a Grey, yellow color from the malaria. He was not breathing. He had no pulse. He was dead.

People are talking about seeing dead bodies. I have. Many. Killed alongside me, and others found days later after we did what we used to do before. Even today on search and rescue I see bodies (though not as often thank the Lord). I have seen people shot, eaten by crocodiles, killed by Hippo, and having had heart attacks while swimming. I know a dead person when I see one.

John was dead. He was dead. His mother was screaming and crying (as one would expect). She had walked over an hour to our camp with her dead son in her arms. He was dead.

My brother screamed "No Lord, not him, not today!" And started praying over John. Who was dead.

After 10 minutes or so, John started moaning, coughed, and began to move in his mothers arms.

We took him to the local clinic, who had told his mother John was dead. He was treated for a few days with IV and supplements.

The last time I saw John he was 7 years old, wearing a ragged pair of shorts and a torn shirt, running around in the dust with the other kids, with the typical running nose, and the attendant flies (this is Mozambique after all).

John is not in heaven, he is alive, well and running around after being dead, as far as I know, for at least two hours, maybe more.

Say what you will, believe what you will, I know John was dead. He was dead.

The Lord brought him back because of a mothers faith and my brothers prayers. People we take with us to Mozambique are told the story and see John and meet his mother. If not for the fact we tell them the story they would not know that John had been brought back by the Lord from death. They would just drive past a little boy playing in the dust with his friends.

Dead is dead. Two hours or two years. "All things are possible". Can one play in the dust, or ride a donkey after the Lord brings one back? That is the very least of the amazing grace our Lord can bestow on us.

John will die eventually. Again. God knows when. But the last time was not his time.

I cry when I remember this. Every time.

Believe me or not. I have nothing to prove. I know what I saw. And the community at Zavora do as well.

It's called faith....

You know Fez what our Lord says...

1 Peter 1:20-21

20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

NKJV

God has whispered His Truth into your eye for in your heart you knew it already to be true... thank you brother for standing in a hard place and allowing His Softness of Love to show forth! Love Steven

This is not directed at anyone in particular. But why is it that we find it hard to testify about stuff like this when we have seen it, and more, with our own eyes?

Why should we be concerned with others opinions or comments? Have we become so PC or hurt by so many false claims that we are numb to them? Are we too "knowledgeable" in our beliefs that we cannot accept miracles as occuring daily? Has the west become immune through a lack of faith, so that we only see these signs and wonders happening where all people have is a grass hut and Jesus, and are considered rich if they have a pig tied to a coconut tree with a piece of old rope?

Just a thought.

Ok you say he was dead, many times, but why do you have to be so presumptuous about what our response to this testimony would be? It's like you framed it presuming you would get bad opinion/comments. Say what you will / believe what you will? I'm sorry but I don't understand why your post is soaked with what seems like accusations of disbelief.

[enoob57]

This is not directed at anyone in particular. But why is it that we find it hard to testify about stuff like this when we have seen it, and more, with our own eyes?

Why should we be concerned with others opinions or comments? Have we become so PC or hurt by so many false claims that we are numb to them? Are we too "knowledgeable" in our beliefs that we cannot accept miracles as occurring daily? Has the west become immune through a lack of faith, so that we only see these signs and wonders happening where all people have is a grass hut and Jesus, and are considered rich if they have a pig tied to a coconut tree with a piece of old rope?

Just a thought.

We know an idol is anything created of God and placed before God in any form... even the caring for our ease over God's purpose... However-I cannot beat and deny my body to be more Holy nor can I immerse it into pleasures... the same. It is therefore not the body but the Spirit and that which is outside of the created element that is directing that which is within such creation and has allowed a most powerful being to use, in submission to the Will of God, given powers of created things to make lies appear as substance in eternal lasting... It is in this understanding that the love of this place is yielding to the things that are under this influence! Loving it not yields even the darkness of this place as witness leading us to the Spiritual realities of the Light that has come into the world and now is on The Right Hand of The Father! This is where all that is Spiritually accessed as Good is and will end up forever and that is where my heart is not here in the palace of the ruler of luxury or the grass hut of the pig with an old rope bound-> for there is no difference in view of eternity (for both ends)! For if we walk in the Spirit whether we are suffering from lack or bathing in excess we turn our Spiritual hearts to God and cry out Father send Your Son Quickly for my desire is to be with Him in the fullness of Light... Yielding to this truth-> For that which I know<- is-> I do not need to have the sight of it---as--- that which I have sight of has not further progressed me into the Truth Known Within! Upon His Word alone rests the fullness of the weight of Spirit and my body cannot rest there at all... Love Steven

[Fez]

Ok you say he was dead, many times, but why do you have to be so presumptuous about what our response to this testimony would be? It's like you framed it presuming you would get bad opinion/comments. Say what you will / believe what you will? I'm sorry but I don't understand why your post is soaked with what seems like accusations of disbelief.

Sorry if it came across that way, and yes you are right, I am defensive. If you trawl back into past posts I have made about miracles I have seen and experienced with my own eyes in Mozambique and in my family you might see why.

In one I was almost but not directly accused of defrauding a bank. The inference was there. The eventual result was that I could prove it was God at work, but still the skeptics.

It is probably something I should work on. What is, is, and we should not be concerned about telling the world or believers about His awesome deeds.

See I believe in signs and wonders, and don't believe they have ever stopped. There are those who would disagree.