enoob57 Posted May 10, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 10, 2013 We’re not talking about greed here. We’re not talking about SERVING money. We’re talking about money on earth - a means to exchange goods and services. The LOVE of money is the roots of all forms of evil. Motivation is the issue. Are we talking about being motivated by God’s love or our own desires? For perspective when was the last time a poor person single handedly paid for a library, hospital, orphanage, school, or church? What if God gives certain people (Believers who CAN handle money well) resources to further His Kingdom? Again we’re talking about motivation. Since when does success = lack of spirituality? when you place todays food more important than the promises of God tomorrow! Deuteronomy 30:9 The Lord your God will then make you successful in everything you do. He will give you many children and numerous livestock, and he will cause your fields to produce abundant harvests, for the Lord will again delight in being good to you as he was to your ancestors. Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success. Nehemiah 2:20 …”The God of heaven will give us success; therefore we His servants will arise and build…” Psalm 1:1-3 Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers. But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers. Psalm 37:4 Delight yourself in the Lord; And He will give you the desires of your heart. Proverbs 22:29 Do you see a man skilled in his work? He will stand before kings; he will not stand before obscure men. Proverbs 22:4 The reward of humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, honor and life. Isaiah 1:19 If you consent and obey, you will eat the best of the land; The OT has a revelation of shadows to what God has planned for the Church age and eternities... they literally thought this life would be all that would ever be! God did this so we would have their lives as examples to us-> as what would happen if we focus upon this life as the motivational factor toward Godliness but now In Full Light of God's Revelatory NT we know values that exceed all that is here and are willing to forsake all and follow after the substance of His promises even in suffering in order to bring to Jesus Eternal Glory by so doing! It is extremely important to note The Lord lived as example for us all as how to walk a narrow path that is difficult and few even find it! Reason being for difficulty in finding the right path is when one has spent their whole life in a system that they adhere to- well their pretty much going to judge for that system as right... yet God says the system we are in is corrupt! It is leavened and we being made a new lump must renew our mind in 'ALL' things including the way we view the worlds system.... love not the world or the things in the world... It is so simple... we are in the world but not of it... we are aliens and the more we remove ourselves from the worlds indoctrination in deceitfulness of riches the clearer we will see! Most people say you will suffer going that way but I say we will suffer either way and I would rather suffer by obedience to God than disobedience! To order ones life in the effort to lesson ones suffering here and now is to be considered a spiritual bending to physical pressing of flesh... a very poorly fought war that ends in victory of flesh over a spirit something God will receive no glory in!!! Understand I'm not saying everything in life will be okay or you'll always be prosperous simply by serving God. However, I think there's good arguments Biblically that if you work hard you are more likely to be successful than those who don't work hard... Proverbs 10:4 Poor is he who works with a negligent hand, but the hand of the diligent makes rich. Proverbs 12:24 The hand of the diligent will rule, but the slack hand will be put to forced labor. Proverbs 14:23 In all labor there is profit, but mere talk leads only to poverty. Proverbs 21:5 The plans of the diligent lead surely to advantage, but everyone who is hasty comes surely to poverty. Some questions some people ask… (And I've been guilty of this myself) How could anyone in good conscious drive a car that expensive? (Perhaps anything more expensive than mine?) How could she spend that kind of money on a coat? I could do a lot of good a lot of good with {insert “luxurious” item here}. (TV, house, car, boat, vacation, coat, clothes, etc.) What is really the motivation behind such questions? Aren’t these people who ask such questions really just jealous of someone else’s success and/or status in life? Food for thought. God bless, GE If true freedom in this life is to reckon excess and need only a consideration of flesh.... and to know that the flesh profits nothing! Then true freedom is to have no thought of tomorrow as what shall we eat or what shall we wear ... for us to build a focus upon that which ends is like putting a cul de sac in an eternal pathway to life! Why would you wish to return to death when you know where Life 'IS'? Using the mind to focus upon that which is passing away is to remain here with the idiots that say this is all there 'IS'... Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 18, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2013 Certainly this warning would not be of amoral things... 1 Co 7:29-31 29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice, those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form of this world is passing away. NKJV This is an attitude toward the temporal things that are not eternally kept... If you have riches you also have with them by witness of God deceitfulness.... Mt 13:22 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. NKJV deceitfulness is not amoral.... Love, Steven Okay let’s speak of deceitfulness. Zacchaeus was very rich. He gave half his money to the poor and paid back fourfold to anyone he’d cheated or was deceitful to... But he was a very rich man and didn’t give everything he had to the poor or his neighbors. Yet, Jesus clearly stated salvation came to Zacchaeus entire house! Luke 19:9-10 9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham; 10 for the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” Full passage see: Luke 19:1-10 Practical example… Rick Warren manages his money as a steward of the Lord. Francis Chan signed away the money he made for his book to a non-profit charity. Is one of these men more spiritual than the other? Question: From a spiritual perspective is winning (being successful) with money wrong? as far as Zacchaeus I would definitely say at the rate He was going ... He would be without it soon When you would rather give it than keep it you have come to the understanding of The Lord Jesus' teaching Do not invest yourself in the temporary because all that Jesus 'IS' is permenant.... You know as well as I do that perfect sanctification is perfect obedience -a mark we all seek and all with different degrees of success... as to your second question of Warren and Chan I would say the Chan was more obedient to Scripture 'Lay not up where moth or rust corrupts' .... Love, Steven So basically even though Z was a wealthy man he was righteous? There is no evidence he gave away all he owned. In regards to Warren and Chan we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Both men love the Lord one simply manages the money God has given him (Warren) while the other entrusts the money given to him to someone else (Chan). Personally, I don't see any difference between the two. Some people IMO do like to over-spiritualize things though. Okay interesting perspective what about my third question in red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 18, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 18, 2013 We’re not talking about greed here. We’re not talking about SERVING money. We’re talking about money on earth - a means to exchange goods and services. The LOVE of money is the roots of all forms of evil. Motivation is the issue. Are we talking about being motivated by God’s love or our own desires? For perspective when was the last time a poor person single handedly paid for a library, hospital, orphanage, school, or church? What if God gives certain people (Believers who CAN handle money well) resources to further His Kingdom? Again we’re talking about motivation. Since when does success = lack of spirituality? when you place todays food more important than the promises of God tomorrow! Who said anything about forgetting God's promises? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 19, 2013 We’re not talking about greed here. We’re not talking about SERVING money. We’re talking about money on earth - a means to exchange goods and services. The LOVE of money is the roots of all forms of evil. Motivation is the issue. Are we talking about being motivated by God’s love or our own desires? For perspective when was the last time a poor person single handedly paid for a library, hospital, orphanage, school, or church? What if God gives certain people (Believers who CAN handle money well) resources to further His Kingdom? Again we’re talking about motivation. Since when does success = lack of spirituality? when you place todays food more important than the promises of God tomorrow! Who said anything about forgetting God's promises? Eagle we have only One Life to examine to show us perfection and how to live.... all else (lives) are to be imitators of that life! He clearly said what would occur in the last days ... which we all agree- we are there! I watch the love for Him (Jesus) grow cold in His Children as they watch prime time and jokes are made of beastiality.... we have become numb to the Sodom that knocks on our doors and the subtly of riches that whisper I will take care of you so you will not suffer... You do realize the only promise here is to be one of suffering as we deliver the hated message of Christ's Love and the need to die to ones self... or do you believe all around is status quo and to relax and live as all else? Ps 17:13-15 13 Arise, O Lord, Confront him, cast him down; Deliver my life from the wicked with Your sword, 14 With Your hand from men, O Lord, From men of the world who have their portion in this life, And whose belly You fill with Your hidden treasure. They are satisfied with children, And leave the rest of their possession for their babes. 15 As for me, I will see Your face in righteousness; I shall be satisfied when I awake in Your likeness. NKJV Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Jesus called money unrighteous. Luk 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true [riches]? Money is a necessary evil in a fallen world. I won't argue with Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 19, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 19, 2013 Jesus lived apart from it in unique ways.... perhaps we are just unwilling to bring that much discomfort and suffering to ourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I think of His(God's) determined ending of the system money has spawned from ... then I see how you can use that which He considers not worth keeping money and use it for something that He will keep forever ... yet people horde it to themselves - clearly the deceitfulness of riches is seen in its influence of the majority who are this way... The rich young ruler was clearly religious but bond of his wealth more than he could break free of! This gives me the cause to not keep it unto myself... oh I know I am increasing my chances of suffering lack but it is better than loving money and not thinking so! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,157 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,444 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Question: From a spiritual perspective is winning (being successful) with money wrong? Money is designed, in the system it is in, to demand from you focus, energy, influence, time... perhaps life force is seen in this as we are heavily influenced by our beginning- a beginning so readily influenced by sin that we cannot be sure clean from dirty... but one thing I know in this-> that what we serve is that which give ourselves to! Lk 16:13 13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." NKJV I find it very disconcerting that we are at the highest point of wickedness in our world as last of days and yet the major acceptance of system from which money is given we know will demand a mark upon which we dedicate our being to its control of life and ways leaving God completely out of finance and control... their god will be their bellies! God warns us that the way is broad and many go therein to destruction... God also warns us of our weakness to stand in our own understanding and strength.... therefore to keep oneself aloof from riches is wise in my opinion! Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 Question: From a spiritual perspective is winning (being successful) with money wrong? Money is designed, in the system it is in, to demand from you focus, energy, influence, time... perhaps life force is seen in this as we are heavily influenced by our beginning- a beginning so readily influenced by sin that we cannot be sure clean from dirty... but one thing I know in this-> that what we serve is that which give ourselves to! Lk 16:13 13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon." NKJV I find it very disconcerting that we are at the highest point of wickedness in our world as last of days and yet the major acceptance of system from which money is given we know will demand a mark upon which we dedicate our being to its control of life and ways leaving God completely out of finance and control... their god will be their bellies! God warns us that the way is broad and many go therein to destruction... God also warns us of our weakness to stand in our own understanding and strength.... therefore to keep oneself aloof from riches is wise in my opinion! Love, Steven Interesting perspective brother. I know of a millionaire that has a yard business at a church I was a member of. He's grown the business over the years to the point where he doesn't need to work. Yet he still works 10-15 hours a day during the week (sometimes on the weekends too), knows his customers by name, loves working with his hands, is joyful in telling others about the love of Jesus, and God has used him to be generous to people throughout the years. This man's generosity has included numerous donations to missions, help to brothers and sisters in Christ who were in need, and generous giving to outreaches for those in need who are also not Believers. I wonder would you consider this generous man of God to be wicked? Should this man simply have given away all he had and never provided for his family? Curious as to your thoughts. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted May 20, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted May 20, 2013 Jesus lived apart from it in unique ways.... perhaps we are just unwilling to bring that much discomfort and suffering to ourselves? I wonder how useful we'd be in the Kingdom of God if we all had no homes and just roamed from town to town. Curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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