Is Money evil?

[enoob57]

I’m sorry brother what does watching tv, jokes, etc have to do with what we’re discussing?

You cannot have tv today without the filth!

You cannot have riches and not have deceitfulness with them!

We’re trying to determine if money is itself evil or, if like other things such as a computer, it can be used for good or evil.

God made all things and pronounced good upon them... but since the fall satan has interwoven a system of overthrow

from that original creation... most important is the fact that God is not bringing any of this creation with Him into the eternal

state and God expects this truth to effect us as to evaluation of here and now!

2 Pe 3:10-13

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise,

and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.

11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and

godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved,

being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for

new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

NKJV

A person can be successful and godly. A person can be successful and not follow the Lord. Both are options...

This is exactly the deceitfulness that is in riches using a word like success in both these scenarios!

Haven't you wondered why this true

1 Co 1:26-31

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many

noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God

has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things

of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to

nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ

Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —

31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

NKJV

it is directly in antithesis to the system and attitude that is in place...

I don’t disagree there is suffering in this life. However, because we aren’t good stewards of what God has given us is not an excuse to cry foul and say “Oh hey look I’m suffering for Christ!” when we don’t have enough to care for our own basic needs of food, shelter, clothing, and transportation.

God bless,

GE

Your first error of reasoning is this world is not what God gave us originally... your second error is the things in it

are not benign from moral influence and are in fact setup to pull or keep you from God... and until you correct these errors

you will not be able to distinguish needs from wants!

Love, Steven

[enoob57]

All of you miss the most simple of all truth-> if God is not keeping it why would we spend all our time amassing it? Isn't this a opposit value system and not unity of purpose?

Love, Steven

[enoob57]

This reasoning in Scripture still awaits your evaluation though

Jude 23

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

NKJV

certainly the garment is as money amoral yet here hatred is directed toward it....

Why does God burn up the first heaven and earth if it is amoral?

Money is a means to an end. The end is the issue and not the means. The end is where either good or evil intentions/actions are found. Would you agree with this?

Yes and the end of money is annihlation... YET what of God and His things?

[GoldenEagle]

If money was evil, the Lord wouldn't give us a commandment that required us to sin in order to fulfill it.

Possible to get a Scripture reference brother?

Matthew 22

²¹ They said to Him, “Caesar’s.”

And He said to them, “Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”

Romans 13

⁷ Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.

Amen.

And x 2

[GoldenEagle]

GoldenEagle: A person who is faithful in little responsibility is also faithful in a lot of responsibility. The same is true for those who unfaithful with a little will also be unfaithful with much. (verse 10)

Exactly. Why would the master praise the faithful worker for increasing his (the master's) money if money were evil?

Tinky you need to evaluate this within this mix

1 Co 7:29-31

29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though

they had none, 30 those who weep as though they did not weep, those who rejoice as though they did not rejoice,

those who buy as though they did not possess, 31 and those who use this world as not misusing it. For the form

of this world is passing away.

NKJV

How much shorter now the time from when this was first penned... it is why God tells us not to love this place!

Love, Steven

Interesting... In light of our discussion how do you view verses 24-29? In particular verse 29?

Matthew 25:14-30

The Parable of the Talents

¹⁴ “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. ¹⁵ To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. ¹⁶ He who had received the five talents went at once and traded with them, and he made five talents more. ¹⁷ So also he who had the two talents made two talents more. ¹⁸ But he who had received the one talent went and dug in the ground and hid his master's money. ¹⁹ Now after a long time the master of those servants came and settled accounts with them. ²⁰ And he who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five talents more, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me five talents; here I have made five talents more.’ ²¹ His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ ²² And he also who had the two talents came forward, saying, ‘Master, you delivered to me two talents; here I have made two talents more.’ ²³ His master said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant. You have been faithful over a little; I will set you over much. Enter into the joy of your master.’ ²⁴ He also who had received the one talent came forward, saying, ‘Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you scattered no seed, ²⁵ so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.’ ²⁶ But his master answered him, ‘You wicked and slothful servant! You knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I scattered no seed? ²⁷ Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received what was my own with interest. ²⁸ So take the talent from him and give it to him who has the ten talents. ²⁹ For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. ³⁰ And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

This reasoning in Scripture still awaits your evaluation though

Jude 23

23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh.

NKJV

certainly the garment is as money amoral yet here hatred is directed toward it....

Why does God burn up the first heaven and earth if it is amoral?

Money is a means to an end. The end is the issue and not the means. The end is where either good or evil intentions/actions are found. Would you agree with this?

Yes and the end of money is annihlation... YET what of God and His things?

Curious as well to your take on verse 15 in Luke 19. Will we not be held accountable for what God gave us? Are we not to be good stewards of things He has entrusted us on earth?

Verse 26 also states once again that those who have more will be given… How do you view this verse?

Luke 19:12-28

¹² He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return. ¹³ Calling ten of his servants, he gave them ten minas, and said to them, ‘Engage in business until I come.’ ¹⁴ But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, ‘We do not want this man to reign over us.’ ¹⁵ When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business. ¹⁶ The first came before him, saying, ‘Lord, your mina has made ten minas more.’ ¹⁷ And he said to him, ‘Well done, good servant! Because you have been faithful in a very little, you shall have authority over ten cities.’ ¹⁸ And the second came, saying, ‘Lord, your mina has made five minas.’ ¹⁹ And he said to him, ‘And you are to be over five cities.’ ²⁰ Then another came, saying, ‘Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in a handkerchief; ²¹ for I was afraid of you, because you are a severe man. You take what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.’ ²² He said to him, ‘I will condemn you with your own words, you wicked servant! You knew that I was a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? ²³ Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?’ ²⁴ And he said to those who stood by, ‘Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas.’ ²⁵ And they said to him, ‘Lord, he has ten minas!’ ²⁶ ‘I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. ²⁷ But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”

²⁸ And when he had said these things, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Question: From a spiritual perspective is winning (being successful) with money wrong?

Money is designed, in the system it is in, to demand from you focus, energy, influence, time... perhaps life force

is seen in this as we are heavily influenced by our beginning- a beginning so readily influenced by sin that we cannot

be sure clean from dirty... but one thing I know in this-> that what we serve is that which give ourselves to!

Lk 16:13

13 "No servant can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other,

or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

NKJV

I find it very disconcerting that we are at the highest point of wickedness in our world as last of days and yet the major

acceptance of system from which money is given we know will demand a mark upon which we dedicate our being to its

control of life and ways leaving God completely out of finance and control... their god will be their bellies!

God warns us that the way is broad and many go therein to destruction... God also warns us of our weakness to stand

in our own understanding and strength.... therefore to keep oneself aloof from riches is wise in my opinion! Love, Steven

Interesting perspective brother.

I know of a millionaire that has a yard business at a church I was a member of. He's grown the business over the years to the point where he doesn't need to work. Yet he still works 10-15 hours a day during the week (sometimes on the weekends too), knows his customers by name, loves working with his hands, is joyful in telling others about the love of Jesus, and God has used him to be generous to people throughout the years. This man's generosity has included numerous donations to missions, help to brothers and sisters in Christ who were in need, and generous giving to outreaches for those in need who are also not Believers.

I wonder would you consider this generous man of God to be wicked? Should this man simply have given away all he had and never provided for his family? Curious as to your thoughts.

God bless,

GE

You seem to be at quite ease with this world as though it is benign from moral influence... curious as you put it

There are many rich who give out of their excess never knowing this below but quite self assured of their goodness!

Mk 12:42-44

42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two mites, which make a quadrans. 43 So He called His disciples to Himself

and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury;

44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood."

NKJV

You tell me from your question above -who did God recognize that day in giving? Was it based on amount or sacrifice?

As to your family question I remind you of the widow of Elijah's day-

1 Ki 17:12-14

12 So she said, "As the Lord your God lives, I do not have bread, only a handful of flour in a bin, and a little oil in a jar;

and see, I am gathering a couple of sticks that I may go in and prepare it for myself and my son, that we may eat it, and die."

13 And Elijah said to her, "Do not fear; go and do as you have said, but make me a small cake from it first, and bring it to me;

and afterward make some for yourself and your son. 14 For thus says the Lord God of Israel: 'The bin of flour shall not be

used up, nor shall the jar of oil run dry, until the day the Lord sends rain on the earth.'"

NKJV

This widow knew this was her and her son's last meal and saw no provision in the future but death... yet God's man asked her to give him first (a stranger) and not her or the son... curious indeed! What would you have done in this situation according to what is formed within you as to providing for your family?

Love, Steven

I’m at ease with Jesus Christ’s love for me and being adopted into God’s family. Our Father owns the cattle on a thousand hills does He not?

Please don’t change the subject. I’m telling you this man in question who owned a yard business (and is/was a millionaire) didn’t give just out of his excess. He lived modestly and gave sacrificially. He has a very modest home, I believe they only drive one vehicle, and they provide for many members of our former church family, missions, and unBelievers in need. So can I infer from your post that you don’t believe this man gives sacrificially? Do you not see the validity in this man's stewardship?

The widow with the two mites was a story regarding sacrificial giving and a heart/attitude issue with the rich who gave in public and were not generous. It wasn't about being poor but about a sacrficial attitude that Christ was praising.

The widow and Elijah is a story of trusting God in all circumstances. If someone approached me claiming to be from God I would question them first and if God’s Holy Spirit led I would do as she did – again give sacrificially.

Curious as to your take on the parables I presented.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

A person can be successful and godly. A person can be successful and not follow the Lord. Both are options...

This is exactly the deceitfulness that is in riches using a word like success in both these scenarios!

Haven't you wondered why this true

1 Co 1:26-31

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption —

31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."

NKJV

it is directly in antithesis to the system and attitude that is in place...

I don’t disagree there is suffering in this life. However, because we aren’t good stewards of what God has given us is not an excuse to cry foul and say “Oh hey look I’m suffering for Christ!” when we don’t have enough to care for our own basic needs of food, shelter, clothing, and transportation.

God bless,

GE

Your first error of reasoning is this world is not what God gave us originally... your second error is the things in it are not benign from moral influence and are in fact setup to pull or keep you from God... and until you correct these errors you will not be able to distinguish needs from wants!

Love, Steven

Sorry, I disagree. Money is not simply a worldly thing. Money is benign and amoral.

Do you disagree then that food, shelter, clothing, and transportation are needs?

Steven do you agree with this premise? This was kind of central to the discussion we’re having here.

I would say there are several categories people can find themselves in...

Rich spiritually and rich financially (or A, B)

Rich spiritually but poor financially (or A, C)

Poor spiritually and poor financially (or D, B)

Poor spiritually and rich financially (or D, E)

It is possible to be in one or more of these categories throughout our lives.

God bless,

GE

[desi2007]

I do think money will reveal the heart.

The blessing of the Lord adds no sorrow.

[gdemoss]

So in conclusion I'm sorry but I'll have to respectfully disagree with how this verse 11 was used to say that Jesus called money unrighteousness brother.

God bless,

GE

Hi Jon, I am more than happy to read and understand your position as well as respectfully disagree with your assessment. I take the position I do based upon love. The need for money in a fallen world stems from the lack of love in the creatures therein. What makes one person worthy of more than another? Do they somehow posses something they did not first receive from God? For what purpose does God give talents and abilities to people? Do you for see money in heaven? Why or why not? Do we not pray for the kingdom of heaven to come to earth that Gods will be done here also? Why is money necessary?

Please understand Jon, I believe that one can use money in a godly way but my position is that money itself is evil as Jesus said because one must choose whether to serve it or God. To serve money is to have respect for its power in the world without respect to God's. To serve God is to have no respect for the power of money. Most people serve mammon, therefore it motivates them instead of love and a certain amount is absolutely required of them before they will employ the God given time and talents they have. Please don't misunderstand what I am saying Jon. We live in an evil world and evil is necessary to judge an evil world. Sad but true. Come Lord Jesus.

Agree to disagree.