Can we talk about the concept of Just War?

[rjp34652]

I've not heard that concept as part of the Christianity I was taught. In fact most Christians I know seem pro-war (meaning in Iraq and Iran). But it's definitely a challenging idea and I thought it would be a good topic to discuss and learn more about.

The 6 requires of a "just" war are:

1) There must be a just cause. Bringing aggression, injustice, and genocide to a stop would promote righteousness and therefore be a just cause.

2) There must be just intention. The goal is peace and safety for all involved. The desire for ideological supremacy, geographical expansion, or economic gain does not justify a war.

3) War must be the last resort after all other methods to resolve the conflict have failed.

4) There must be a formal declaration of war. This shows that it is the government taking action on behalf of its citizenry.

5) Proportionate means are used. Weaponry and use of force must be limited to what is necessary to repel the attack and prevent future aggression. Unlimited war is wrong.

6) Noncombatant immunity. Individuals not actively involved in the conflict, including POWs and casualties, should be immune from attack.

Here's where I first heard about the concept*edit video removed, you may only posts videos in the video forum,thanks Isaiah.*

And here's an interesting article by a pastor: http://newswithviews.../baldwin666.htm

It has been a long, long time since America fought a just war. Our current menu of unjust causes exceeds twenty wars and if our government isn't careful we'll soon add another one on the Korean peninsula. One, if I may be so bold to say, we may not win if the trigger gets pulled.

There's a big difference between serving one's country and serving one's government.

In twenty first century America, few know the difference. Fewer still care to know or listen. And so we send our sons into one governmental conflagration after another each of which making the world safe for the financial cartel, the defense contractors and the tissue thin American hegemony.

"Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"

- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)

The excuse is always the same; making the world safe for democracy. But is it? Time after time we fight to set up petty dictators and despots who rule their own people with a rod of unjust iron and tyranny. Why? Because it's easier to manipulate a dictator than a parliament. Americans claim to love liberty, but have set up so many fascist governments that we are now busy recreating our own government in that image.

And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: For they are a very froward generation, Children in whom is no faith.

Deu 32:20

In all of this the church, which once functioned as the conscience of a great nation, is now hobbled in humanism, greed, corruption, apathy and self-absorption. What does God think of all this? The time of the church, like the time of America is over. God is no longer blessing America. As we have turned our back upon the Almighty, He has turned His back upon us. Our country now lunges from one tragedy to another and the church, which ought to stand up and declare God's mercy if only we will humble ourselves - the church says nothing and hides its light under a bushel.

Wicked servants all - will bring condemnation and judgment from God upon itself for it is written that judgment begins in the house of God.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited April 17, 2013 by rjp34652

[Lime]

There's a big difference between serving one's country and serving one's government.

"Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world. God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America, 'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"

- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. (circa 1967)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on Just War. I found the above 2 quotes thought-provoking. Especially that MLK's quote was almost 50 years old. I thought the policeman of the world mentality was more of a recent thing, but to him it was apparent 1/2 a century ago.

[RedMomma]

not in government nor military business but I dont think the Lord expects us to play dead and do nothing to defend ours and as for remark on God turning His face away from America? I disagree there just had to say it

[Angel1969]

Since I Believe that god never changes but is the same today and tomorrow then i believe that Deuteronomy 20 still applies to us as a christian nation.

20:When you go out to battle against your enemies, and see horses and chariots [and] people more numerous than you, do not be afraid of them; for the LORD your God [is] with you, who brought you up from the land of Egypt.etc

I still believe that God calls his people to defend his name, just think about it why do these other nations hate America/ Israel because we are Gods people. Fighting in a war is different then just plain out murder. War is out of our hands, you cant just sit back and let the enemy kill you, you have to fight and plain murder is a complete choice of ones own evil mind.

​I probably didn't explain my self very well, but I do believe that Christians should not start fights,but should take part in fights if they are against God

Edited April 18, 2013 by Angel1969

[Cailean]

I hear, more & more, the doubt voiced; "It's not even our war". With this in mind I wonder how many have died unnecessarily. Hailing from Ireland I'm also wonder what the British are doing in Ulster - the 4th Province - in the first place. (Hope I make sense).

C +

[Gandalf]

Have you even noticed that when Christ said to turn the other cheek it is when someone is attacking you personally? It is never implied when someone is attacking the innocent.

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Where in the New Testament does a Christian ever use violence to prevent or stop violence?

[GoldenEagle]

Have you even noticed that when Christ said to turn the other cheek it is when someone is attacking you personally? It is never implied when someone is attacking the innocent.

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Where in the New Testament does a Christian ever use violence to prevent or stop violence?

So do you believe that all Christians should be pacifists and not partake of any politics for example?

[Gandalf]

Have you even noticed that when Christ said to turn the other cheek it is when someone is attacking you personally? It is never implied when someone is attacking the innocent.

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Where in the New Testament does a Christian ever use violence to prevent or stop violence?

So do you believe that all Christians should be pacifists and not partake of any politics for example?

Why should pacifists not take part in politics????????????? Jesus set a clear and unmistakeable example of personal pacifism; His apostles followed Him in that.

[Fez]

Have you even noticed that when Christ said to turn the other cheek it is when someone is attacking you personally? It is never implied when someone is attacking the innocent.

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Where in the New Testament does a Christian ever use violence to prevent or stop violence?

Ask the guy with one ear..... The one that Jesus healed.

[GoldenEagle]

Have you even noticed that when Christ said to turn the other cheek it is when someone is attacking you personally? It is never implied when someone is attacking the innocent.

John 15:13

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Where in the New Testament does a Christian ever use violence to prevent or stop violence?

So do you believe that all Christians should be pacifists and not partake of any politics for example?

Why should pacifists not take part in politics????????????? Jesus set a clear and unmistakeable example of personal pacifism; His apostles followed Him in that.

Simply asking a question. You are newer to Worthy and engaging in some very interesting threads. I'm going to take it in your worldview then that even though one might have a pacifistic outlook on life one could still partake in politics?

God bless,

GE