other one Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,047 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,792 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 Thank-you Floatingaxe for providing Exodus 3:14, where Father Himself told us His Name. If I may share this please, The Master (Christ) likewise made it clear when He was here in the body of Jesus 2000 years ago that He was God's Son and NOT God Himself ("I AM"). Then how do you reconcile the book of Exodus telling us that 74 people saw the God of Israel and Jesus telling us that no one had seen the Father. John 5:30-47 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the Will of the Father which hath sent me. 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. 5:33 Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. 5:35 He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his Light. 5:36 But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 5:37 And the Father Himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. 5:38 And ye have not His Word abiding in you: for whom He hath sent, him ye believe not. 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have Eternal Life: and they are they which testify of me. 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have Life. 5:41 I receive not honour from men. 5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Pretty clear that Christ is speaking directly to a specific group of men, which in no way contradicts what we are told in Exodus 24 about an entirely different group separated by about 1500 years. Wouldn't you agree? It really doesn't matter who he's talking to, 74 people in the days of Moses saw the God of Israel, and Jesus said that "NO" man has seen the Father..... makes no difference who he's talking to...... take your pick..... either the writer of Exodus did not tell us the truth, or Jesus didn't tell us the truth, or the Father was/is not the God of Israel. that Moses saw. Jesus isn't the Father either..... Jesus calls the Father his God also. I do believe you guys have some serious reconciling to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,047 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,792 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 I Am is God. Jesus is God. Therefore, Jesus is I Am. What does the word "god" mean? What are you inferring? A 'god' is a powerless idol in someone's life--anything that takes the place of God. That your thought process isn't necessarily a proof. You do understand that Hebrew and Greek do not have capitol letters and there is no real difference in the word "god" and "God" other than the context of the sentence. Do you also understand that those things that the pagans worship and sacrifice to are demons and they are far from powerless idols in some cases. i know people who's god is gold, and I know and have had to work around several luciferians who's god is themselves. So I'm just inferring that there are many things involved in that word God/god and associating two things with the one word is not a valid proof either in science or metaphysical science that the two things are the same.. No big deal. However I must add that I do firmly believe that Jesus is "I AM"....... but not the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 25, 2011 I Am is God. Jesus is God. Therefore, Jesus is I Am. What does the word "god" mean? What are you inferring? A 'god' is a powerless idol in someone's life--anything that takes the place of God. That your thought process isn't necessarily a proof. You do understand that Hebrew and Greek do not have capitol letters and there is no real difference in the word "god" and "God" other than the context of the sentence. Do you also understand that those things that the pagans worship and sacrifice to are demons and they are far from powerless idols in some cases. i know people who's god is gold, and I know and have had to work around several luciferians who's god is themselves. So I'm just inferring that there are many things involved in that word God/god and associating two things with the one word is not a valid proof either in science or metaphysical science that the two things are the same.. No big deal. However I must add that I do firmly believe that Jesus is "I AM"....... but not the Father. In this dispensation, we use 'God' to represent Jehovah. Everyone knows that. there is a huge difference in God and any old 'god'. One is alive and all-powerful the other is dead and inert. some are associated with demons, but are no threat to those who walk in the Spirit--capital 'S', of course! There has been no reason to even make such a point with me, other one. It's a bit of a rabbit trail. Jesus is the Son, not the Father or Holy Spirit. The Father is also not the Son or Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is not the Son or the Father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceof1 Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 (edited) Thank-you for your reply Floatingaxe, Please see the following, straight from God Himself:- Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. God is NOT the author of confusion and He didn't stage a conversation with Himself for our amusement. He is our Creator and the King Ruler of the Universe and Christ is His Eldest Son, just as we've been told (Col. 1:14-15). One has to overlook dozens of verses to arrive at the erroneous conclusion that Christ claimed to be "I AM". All Christ-Jesus is telling us in John 8:58 is that He has been around, as His True Self/Spirit-Being for a long, long time, as confirmed by John 17:5. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. If Christ was really telling us this one time that He is Father (which would have contradicted many, many verses where He says otherwise), He would have made it crystal clear just as Father did when He told us (in the verse you previously quoted):- Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, "I AM" hath sent me unto you. Regarding the verses you quoted from Psalm 110, it is referring to the natural order of things exactly as defined in I Corinthians 11:3:- I Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Why do you suppose the pharisees/politicians couldn't answer Christ's question about Psalm 110 please? Matthew 22:41-46 22:41 While the politicians were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is He his son? 22:46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any [man] from that day forth ask him any more [questions]. Edited December 25, 2011 by voiceof1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted December 25, 2011 There is nothing erroneous in the claim that Jesus made that He is God, one with God and equal to God. For a time of 33 years, God, as Jesus, stepped into a human form and walked this Earth and submitted to the Father as the Son, as a representation of how we are to lay down our own lives before Him. What is erroneous is the religious thinking of many people who cannot grasp the Trinity. We don't have to fully grasp it with our simple, finite human minds---but we need to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Thank-you for your reply Floatingaxe, Please see the following, straight from God Himself:- Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. God is NOT the author of confusion and He didn't stage a conversation with Himself for our amusement. He is our Creator and the King Ruler of the Universe and Christ is His Eldest Son.... Indeed Dear One, The Father Did Not Stage A Conversation With Himself For Do Know And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16 There Is But One God, The Father, The Son And The Holy Ghost Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:22-23 And God, The Son Is The And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:3 LORD God Almighty And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9 Of All Creation Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:12-17 And It Was Created To His Pleasure The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:10-11 And He Is From Before Forever And Is Going Forward Forever And Forever Amen~! And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Revelation 1:5-8 ____________ _________ ______ ___ Believe For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 And Be Blessed Beloved Love, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voiceof1 Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 12 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 Thank-you Floatingaxe for providing Exodus 3:14, where Father Himself told us His Name. If I may share this please, The Master (Christ) likewise made it clear when He was here in the body of Jesus 2000 years ago that He was God's Son and NOT God Himself ("I AM"). Then how do you reconcile the book of Exodus telling us that 74 people saw the God of Israel and Jesus telling us that no one had seen the Father. Please see the following answer to your question:- John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. No (hu)man has ever seen God nor will that ever happen. God is Spirit and the ONLY way to "see" God is to see things with spiritual eyes, just as Christ told us:- John 3:3-6 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from above, he cannot SEE the Kingdom of God. 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (human) and then is born (later) from above as his spirit-"Being" (his REAL self which is NOT human), he can NOT enter into the Kingdom of God (Who is a Spirit-"Being"). 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is human; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (a spirit-"Being") - (a human+Being). This is why most of the world looked at Jesus and saw the man rather than seeing the Spirit-Being (Christ) inside of Jesus. They were looking at Him with human rather than spiritual eyes. It will be EXACTLY the same during His Second Coming, just as He told us 2000 years ago:- Matthew 24:37-39 24:37 But as the days of Noah [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. 24:38 For as in the days that were before The Flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until The Flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Noah warned everyone the flood was coming and that if they refused to give up their worldly life and traditions, and return to God and obey Him ONLY, they would not survive. No one except Noah's immediate family believed him and EVERYONE ELSE DIED. *Edit link removed* Christ is telling us plainly in the verses above that it will be just the same during His Second Coming, where people will be so sure of themselves and their own ways that they won't recognise, believe or listen to Him. He will be rejected by most of the world, including "Christians", who call Him Lord, but don't DO God's Will. There is no way to do God's Will whilst disobeying His Commandments (John 14:15, 21-24). Matthew 7:21-24 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; ONLY he that doeth the Will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in That Day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work inequity. 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a Rock (the Truth): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,047 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,792 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 Thank-you Floatingaxe for providing Exodus 3:14, where Father Himself told us His Name. If I may share this please, The Master (Christ) likewise made it clear when He was here in the body of Jesus 2000 years ago that He was God's Son and NOT God Himself ("I AM"). Then how do you reconcile the book of Exodus telling us that 74 people saw the God of Israel and Jesus telling us that no one had seen the Father. Please see the following answer to your question:- John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. No (hu)man has ever seen God nor will that ever happen. God is Spirit and the ONLY way to "see" God is to see things with spiritual eyes, just as Christ told us:- John 3:3-6 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born from above, he cannot SEE the Kingdom of God. 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (human) and then is born (later) from above as his spirit-"Being" (his REAL self which is NOT human), he can NOT enter into the Kingdom of God (Who is a Spirit-"Being"). 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is human; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (a spirit-"Being") - (a human+Being). This is why most of the world looked at Jesus and saw the man rather than seeing the Spirit-Being (Christ) inside of Jesus. They were looking at Him with human rather than spiritual eyes. It will be EXACTLY the same during His Second Coming, just as He told us 2000 years ago:- Matthew 24:37-39 24:37 But as the days of Noah [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. 24:38 For as in the days that were before The Flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 24:39 And knew not until The Flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Noah warned everyone the flood was coming and that if they refused to give up their worldly life and traditions, and return to God and obey Him ONLY, they would not survive. No one except Noah's immediate family believed him and EVERYONE ELSE DIED. *Edit link removed* Christ is telling us plainly in the verses above that it will be just the same during His Second Coming, where people will be so sure of themselves and their own ways that they won't recognise, believe or listen to Him. He will be rejected by most of the world, including "Christians", who call Him Lord, but don't DO God's Will. There is no way to do God's Will whilst disobeying His Commandments (John 14:15, 21-24). Matthew 7:21-24 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; ONLY he that doeth the Will of my Father which is in heaven. 7:22 Many will say to me in That Day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work inequity. 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and DOETH THEM, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a Rock (the Truth): I ask you about people seeing the God of israel in the old testament and Jesus telling us no one has seen the Father and you give me quotes about the Kingdom. We have the God of the Israelites....... He told Moses that His name is "I AM" and we have the Father. Now Moses tells us that he and 73 other people saw the God of Israel (I AM) and we have Jesus telling us that no man has seen the Father. So I ask how can the Father be "I AM" and you give me quotes about the Kingdom. How can that answer my question..... it's very simple to see.......... the Father is not (I AM). How can you come to any other conclusion and keep the bible as truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,134 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted December 25, 2011 John 14:9,10 - Jesus answered; Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been with among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. Those of Exodus saw the pre incarnate Christ. For Christ Is: 1 Col 1:15 - He is the image of the invisible God. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaiah 6:8 Posted December 25, 2011 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted December 25, 2011 closed for review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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