The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[oak]

I am not a prophet nor a teacher but there is a grave deception when men re-assure other men about the very essence of salvation. The people that I have known left Worthy, and why did they leave? The spirit of deception is, oh so rampant. It is indeed insidious (leading to death). The overall structure of this lie is that is based on truth. Oh what a masterful play by demons. Let me say this for starters, there is (are) no guarantee, no coupon, and no short-cut to Salvation. This the fear that I had as a child, if God will condemn his unity in His Son to Crucifixion, who are we? Oh yea, right Christ took the entire burden on Himself so that we who are free – once we acknowledge and accept Him – are free to do as we please. WRONG!What kept me alive in these endless discussions was, “Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth…?” Lk18:8 This is written to the people that are the “elect who cry to Him day and night” Lk 18:7 Do you cry out to him day and night? I don’t. When I went on a search for Christ one Christian advisor said, “You have to decide who you are?” I said, who are you…? The sage replied, “A sinner.” Yes folks you can be sure God will fulfill His promises but as a sinner could you fulfill yours?

It’s not even a matter of works because we cannot merit the gift of grace and the resulting salvation. That I fully agree with the OSAS and whatever name they choose to go by. I’m simply saying, God made Salvation and peace a two way street ever since he made the tree of right and wrong. Was God responsible for Adam and Eve’s downfall, yes and no is the answer. But hold on as many OSAS people will rant and rave about the subject, the Lord gave Adam and Eve RESPONSIBILITIES!!! Even though God knew this would happen, the answer is contingent on Adam and Eve, and therefore the correct phrasing is, did God want this to happen and the answer is an unequivocal NO !!!

Let’s go to Romans, “Therefore you have no excuse, O man…” Rom 2:1 And if you have judged any man in anyway you are part of this passage. Yes, you have no excuse. And the OSAS has a passage to the truth which is correct: “Christ Jesus is the one who died – more than that, who was raised – who is at the right hand of God, who is indeed is interceding for us. Rom 8:34 How are we to lose? The answer is the same way Adam and Eve lost. Adam and Eve are safe now but are you?

Yes, the debates will go on and on. But the sinner in me yearns for the Truth no matter what; there are two words that will snap my wicked soul in to attention: Obedience and Faith. These are under our control and don’t let anyone tare you away from these, for I see Judgement Day as a day that people will plead with God about not making them poverty stricken, uglier, less intelligent, less able to work crafts of art – ‘Oh God why did you put me in a position of such authority?’ Pilate is thinking this as we read. The essence is no matter what the “wise men” of our time say use your conscience and good reason of your mind. Life is a battle. A lonely battle for which you do not get earthly praise and all of us are addicted to the earth in one way or another. That’s the reason Christ washed the feet of his apostles: meaning the earth which is an advisory of Christ was in almost constant contact with the apostles – THX Watchman!!!

To the least the most...!

Oak

[Floatingaxe]

I don't know about you, but I certainly have a guarantee of salvation---God's perfect word. He makes me many promises as His child that I can rely on, and the first and foremost one is that as a believer in Jesus Christ, I have everlasting life. He says I am a citizen of heaven, and I am justified and hidden with Christ in God. I am no longer considered a sinner, but I am a saint, free forever from condemnation.

[oak]

I don't know about you, but I certainly have a guarantee of salvation---God's perfect word. He makes me many promises as His child that I can rely on, and the first and foremost one is that as a believer in Jesus Christ, I have everlasting life. He says I am a citizen of heaven, and I am justified and hidden with Christ in God. I am no longer considered a sinner, but I am a saint, free forever from condemnation.

Please direct me to a Guarantee in terms of scripture. If we have a guarantee what use is, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.” Matt 7:7 What is the reference of “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Matt 7:13-14 How about “You therefore must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect [Love thy enemy].” Matt 5:48 This is the word of God; as a sinful man, yes, I’d truly like to hear that anyone that lived this life with minimal damage to his Maker, neighbor and himself, while believing that Christ died for his sins is fit for heaven.

Tell me has your faith moved mountains? I do not say this to mock or devalue you; I say this as a person that understands that the Holy Spirit has to enter me and renew my heart and mind. I can not lay claim to this in all honesty. I have desires that are of this earth and know Christ is not of this earth. And being of the orthodox faith, I feel redemption is vital to one’s salvation. What use is redemption if I’m already saved? What benefit is being “buried therefore with Him by Baptism into death” Rom 6:4 I was an enfant I had no idea of what was going on. But as an adult I know that what makes Christianity stand out is sacrifice and Christ’s victory over death. What other religion can lay claim to this? Do you not think sacrifice will be asked of you? Do you welcome strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick or imprisoned? I’ve tried to write to those who were imprisoned – they rejected me. I tried to keep a commitment to visit the sick in the hospitals but with a job offer, I forgot about it, completely. I was not ready and did not put God first. I hope for another chance. But don’t you know that many people can confess Christ – at this point and time – and leave their hearts out of the process, leaving it dead? Have you not heard, that “not everyone who says to Me,’ Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven...[?]” Yes, I have heard about the authentic Christians. Yes, I believe God will fulfill His promise but have you fulfilled yours?

[Guest shiloh357]

I am not a prophet nor a teacher but there is a grave deception when men re-assure other men about the very essence of salvation.

Well I guess the Apostle John was decieving people when he said that he was writing to them to assure them of salvation, that they might KNOW that they have eternal life. Note what John said:

And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

(1Jn 5:11-13)

Oh what a masterful play by demons. Let me say this for starters, there is (are) no guarantee, no coupon, and no short-cut to Salvation.

Eternal Security does not claim to be a "coupon" or short-cut to Salvation. However, salvation IS guaranteed for authentic followers of Christ.

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

(Eph 1:13-14)

The Holy Spirit, His presence within us is the guarantee of my inheritance. He is the one who testifies that I am indeed a child of God.

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

(Rom 8:16-17)

This the fear that I had as a child, if God will condemn his unity in His Son to Crucifixion, who are we? Oh yea, right Christ took the entire burden on Himself so that we who are free – once we acknowledge and accept Him – are free to do as we please. WRONG!

But who is claiming we are free to do wrong?? Eternal Security is predicated on the notion that a true Christian seeks to please God, that they have become a new creation in Christ and as such, have a new and abiding desire to serve the Lord. They are not seeking to go out and live in sin.

I’m simply saying, God made Salvation and peace a two way street ever since he made the tree of right and wrong.

That is not true. Salvation is not a two-way street. Salvation is a gift. You cannot earn or merit a gift.

As for the rest of the post, I am not really understanding your arguement, as I don't really see where Romans 2 really speaks to this issue, so I will restrict my comments to the parts of your post that I understand.

[nChrist]

God has made many promises to those who are born again from above, and God will keep every one of them most perfectly. First, at the moment of Salvation, we are quickened (translated) into the Body of Christ and our hearts are Sealed with the Holy Spirit as an earnest of other Promises from God. The Holy Spirit takes up residence in our hearts, and no combination of powers can break the Seal of the Holy Spirit. The first and most basic thing we should know is that God can't lie and He always keeps His Promises most perfectly.

John 10:28-30 KJV And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 2:4-7 KJV But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 KJV 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. 21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

[oak]

I am not a prophet nor a teacher but there is a grave deception when men re-assure other men about the very essence of salvation.

Well I guess the Apostle John was decieving people when he said that he was writing to them to assure them of salvation, that they might KNOW that they have eternal life. Note what John said:

And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

(1Jn 5:11-13)

Oh what a masterful play by demons. Let me say this for starters, there is (are) no guarantee, no coupon, and no short-cut to Salvation.

Eternal Security does not claim to be a "coupon" or short-cut to Salvation. However, salvation IS guaranteed for authentic followers of Christ.

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

(Eph 1:13-14)

The Holy Spirit, His presence within us is the guarantee of my inheritance. He is the one who testifies that I am indeed a child of God.

The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

(Rom 8:16-17)

This the fear that I had as a child, if God will condemn his unity in His Son to Crucifixion, who are we? Oh yea, right Christ took the entire burden on Himself so that we who are free – once we acknowledge and accept Him – are free to do as we please. WRONG!

But who is claiming we are free to do wrong?? Eternal Security is predicated on the notion that a true Christian seeks to please God, that they have become a new creation in Christ and as such, have a new and abiding desire to serve the Lord. They are not seeking to go out and live in sin.

I’m simply saying, God made Salvation and peace a two way street ever since he made the tree of right and wrong.

That is not true. Salvation is not a two-way street. Salvation is a gift. You cannot earn or merit a gift.

As for the rest of the post, I am not really understanding your arguement, as I don't really see where Romans 2 really speaks to this issue, so I will restrict my comments to the parts of your post that I understand.

Here we go again... I agree with the scripture you are quoting and it is not deceiving however it may be misread. What??? Let me speak of something I have the authority to comment on and will zero in on the operative word(s). Bare with me, it will become obvious.

I’m an alcoholic. Do people in general believe that alcohol can be addictive? Certainly, my mother who rarely drinks believes in an unemotional way that alcohol can be addictive and habitual – in a way that many people can agree; yes it is known to happen. Is she an alcoholic? Not in the least, since she just agrees that it can take possession of a person’s life (a statistical type of belief). However does she love and worship it like an alcoholic? NO! Now with me alcohol is a love and it is a type of worship since I had states where I couldn’t stop from shaking until I had at least a half of a pint of vodka in my system. The joke about a genie appearing to the alcoholic and granting him his first wish of a never ending supply of whiskey shots and repeating this request with the second wish is not a joke.

The words “true worshiper will worship the Father in spirit and truth” appear in John 4:23-24 and “love” appears in John 8:42 God knows the extent I would go to get alcohol – a true loving worshipful alcoholic that would get a liquor store to open up, even if it was closed. Ironically God is the only One that can cure you of this addiction: The steps are based on Saint Ignatius writing.

Now, let’s juxtapose the term alcoholic with Christian and I have no doubt that most Christians believe in Christ. However if we add worship and love I would say the candidates get thinned out. What in good conscience does God want your belief to contain – love and worshiping? So, God knows the true desire of your inner heart. Well if it’s earthly and it’s an Eternal Security crowd they’ll factually believe in Him and believe to be saved – but if they’re not really worshipful lovers – that is not the truth.

Oak

[Floatingaxe]

I don't know about you, but I certainly have a guarantee of salvation---God's perfect word. He makes me many promises as His child that I can rely on, and the first and foremost one is that as a believer in Jesus Christ, I have everlasting life. He says I am a citizen of heaven, and I am justified and hidden with Christ in God. I am no longer considered a sinner, but I am a saint, free forever from condemnation.

Please direct me to a Guarantee in terms of scripture. If we have a guarantee what use is, “Ask and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.” Matt 7:7 What is the reference of “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Matt 7:13-14 How about “You therefore must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect [Love thy enemy].” Matt 5:48 This is the word of God; as a sinful man, yes, I’d truly like to hear that anyone that lived this life with minimal damage to his Maker, neighbor and himself, while believing that Christ died for his sins is fit for heaven.

If we don't have a guarantee---Jesus---then what is the point of the word of God? What is the point of His agonizing death and resurrection? What is the point of the shed blood of the precious Lamb of God? What do you think a covenant is? We have received the guarantee of the Holy Spirit, by whom we are sealed into His promise! If you think we have no guarantee handed to us by God Himself, then what faith you have is weak. Get into the word, and know God, and become familiar with His many promises.

Ephesians 1:11-14

11God also decided ahead of time to choose us through Christ according to his plan, which makes everything work the way he intends. 12He planned all of this so that we who had already focused our hope on Christ would praise him and give him glory.

13You heard and believed the message of truth, the Good News that he has saved you. In him you were sealed with the Holy Spirit whom he promised. 14This Holy Spirit is the guarantee that we will receive our inheritance. We have this guarantee until we are set free to belong to him. God receives praise and glory for this.

Tell me has your faith moved mountains? I do not say this to mock or devalue you; I say this as a person that understands that the Holy Spirit has to enter me and renew my heart and mind. I can not lay claim to this in all honesty.

My faith does move mountains that stand in my way----as I speak to them to move by the faith I have in Jesus Christ.

I have desires that are of this earth and know Christ is not of this earth. And being of the orthodox faith, I feel redemption is vital to one’s salvation. What use is redemption if I’m already saved? What benefit is being “buried therefore with Him by Baptism into death” Rom 6:4 I was an enfant I had no idea of what was going on. But as an adult I know that what makes Christianity stand out is sacrifice and Christ’s victory over death. What other religion can lay claim to this? Do you not think sacrifice will be asked of you? Do you welcome strangers, clothe the naked, visit the sick or imprisoned? I’ve tried to write to those who were imprisoned – they rejected me. I tried to keep a commitment to visit the sick in the hospitals but with a job offer, I forgot about it, completely. I was not ready and did not put God first. I hope for another chance. But don’t you know that many people can confess Christ – at this point and time – and leave their hearts out of the process, leaving it dead? Have you not heard, that “not everyone who says to Me,’ Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven...[?]” Yes, I have heard about the authentic Christians. Yes, I believe God will fulfill His promise but have you fulfilled yours?

You are really holding to more of a works-based salvation which is a major detriment to faith. Redemption is my salvation! Infant baptism does nothing but get a child wet. Once we receive Christ by faith, we have a command to be baptized.

As a Christian, I am not guaranteed no trouble. In fact that is a guarantee! But there is no trouble that can come to me that I cannot overcome in Christ.

It is our responsibility to ABIDE IN CHRIST. We stumble, but we don't lose salvation---that is a given! We are saved by grace and not works.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Traditions are spiritually treacherous:

Mark 7:13

And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.”

[enoob57]

Eternal Security of the believer is a doctrinal fact:

Authorized by Christ before we were ever created ... within those who receive the free gift of Salvation... Eph 1:4

Set forth upon the foundation of His own Life (blood) Eph 1:7

Will be saved cannot be said if could be lost... Rm 10:9

I give them eternal life can't be said Jn 10:28

They shall never perish can't be said Jn 10:28

Can people really know they have eternal life The book of 1John said absolutely yes! 1Jn 5:13

am I living in truth and rejecting deeds done in darkness 1Jn 1:6

Do I enjoy the fellowship of other believers 1Jn 1:7

Love for God's Word 1Jn 2:3-5

Do I reject the values in the world system 1Jn 2:15-17

Do I expereience answered Prayer 1Jn 3:21-22, 5:14-15

Love, Steven

[L.J.]

I do believe that the OSAS has been as much as a stumbling block to true Christianity as the altar call and the so called "sinner's prayer." While yes there is evidence of eternal security, it's not unconditional.

Why are there so many warnings about falling away from faith?

This is what Jesus had to say:

Matthew 10:22 (Endure until the end)

Matthew 24:12 & 13 (Endure until the end)

Mark 4:3-20 (Parable of the Sower)

Mark 13:13 (Endure until the end)

John 15:2 & 6 (You must remain in me)

Revelation 2:5 (Remove lampstand)

Revelation 2:10 (Be faithful unto death)

Revelation 3:1-5 (Erase name from the Book of Life)

Peter:

II Peter 1:10 (IF you are diligent you will not fall)

II Peter 2:20-22 (Know Christ then overcome by sin; worse than before)

II Peter 3:17 (Fall from your steadfastness)

Paul:

Romans 11:20-23 (Branches grafted then broken off)

I Corinthians 10:11 & 12 (Take heed lest you fall)

I Corinthians 15:1-2 (Believed in vain)

Galatians 5:4 (You have fallen from Grace)

Galatians 6:9 (Reap IF not faint)

Colossians 1:23 (IF you continue in the faith)

I Thessalonians 3:8 (IF you stand fast in the Lord)

I Timothy 2:15 (IF they continue in faith)

I Timothy 3:6 & 7 (Recent convert + conceit = condemnation of the Devil)

I Timothy 4:1 (Some will depart from the faith)

Hebrews 3:6 ( IF we hold fast to the end)

Hebrews 3:14 (Partakers of Christ, IF we hold steadfast)

Hebrews 6:4-6 (If they fall away...)

Hebrews 10:38 & 39 (Believe = Saved; Drawback = Perdition)

Now this is what Scripture says. Do we have to work for our salvation, NO. But we can fall away. If you disagree with that you disagree with both Jesus, Peter and Paul.

Now this is my very humble opinion about the subject:

Notice how scripture refers to us (believers) as the "bride of Christ". We are continually referred to as a marriage covenant. Now I look at my marriage with my wife. I love her with all my heart. I would never do anything on purpose to hurt her or break the vows that I vowed to her. On the flip side, I don't lie awake at night worrying about if I make a small mistake that she would leave me.

I believe this is the same with Christ. I love him. I will never purposely do anything to jeopardize my relationship with Him. But I am human and I will sin. If I confess those sins then he is faithful to forgive me.

While one can fall away from the faith, it is not as easy for a true believer to do.

L.J.

[Guest shiloh357]

Here we go again... I agree with the scripture you are quoting and it is not deceiving however it may be misread.

How can they be misread. John says, "I write these things to you that you many know you have eternal life." So in what way is that being misread? The passages I provided are not ambiguous, they are very straight forward use plain speech. I would say that you don't really believe what those passages say. They clearly teach that God wants to know we are saved, yet you are denying the essential and plain teaching of those passages.

A lack of assurance destroys any possibility of reaching people for Christ. Those who have no assurance of salvation cannot offer salvation because they are not really sure they, themselves are truly saved.

People with no assurance are consumed with trying to be good enough, despite the Bible's clear teaching that you can never be good enough.

If you have no assurance of salvation in your own life, what do have to offer anyone else? How you can you tell people to get saved and tell them that Christ offers salvation while at the same time maintaining the view that you don't really know if you are saved or not? It is a contradictory message. How can you testify of a salvation you don't really have? How can you tell people how wonderful it is, and how much peace you have in your life, if you are fraught with worry over your own salvation???