The possibly False teachings of OSAS and Eternal Security

[jasoncran]

peter spoke of men who were saved and the turned from the faith. coming to the knowledge of the lord and walking away is possible if it wasnt there would be no mentioning of it all.

[Guest shiloh357]

I was just showing how the parable can be interpreted to show someone can be saved, lost and re-saved.

There is a stark difference between how a parable CAN be intrepreted and the intent of the author. Sure you can erect an interpetation that allows you pencil in whatever you want to make the Bible conform to the theology you want it to conform to. Using YOUR approach we can make the Bible say whatever we want it to say.

The problem is that the modern concepts of "saved" and "lost" were not apart of the point Jesus was trying to make and wuld not have been a part of the mindset of the audience. So, arguing for a possible interpretation doesn't really carry any weight if it isn't the point being made in the first place.

The other problem you have is that there is NOTHING in the parable that says that the son was ever disowened by the Father. Your position would have to show that the son ceased being a son.

[Arthur Durnan]

I lovingly disagree with your quik assertion (without specific biblical reference) that Peter says men were "re-lost". There is no such thing in God's Holy Word that men were "re-lost." Please note in 2 Peter 2:20 that it does not intimate that they were saved but that they had knowledge, and because of that particular knowledge they wre able to escape the pollutions of society, but they did not escape the eternal destiny of all Christ-rejectors which is Hell. They had enuf knowledge (as millions do) to keep them relatively moral (as millions are today), but check what the Holy Spirit said about these people with knowledge in Verses 12 thru 19 of 2 Peter 2: -

They are those that walk in "lust & uncleanness (Verse 12). These are "as natural brute beasts (verse 12). "They shall [/i]perish!" (Verse 12. "spots they are & blemishes" (Verses 12 & 13. "They cannot cease from sin (Verse 14). "They are wells without water" (Verse 17). In Verse 22 they're "likened to dogs & pigs." Now my dear friend who believes in only a "temporary" sal;vation, can you, in the light of this powerful context (which you have somehow overlooked), call those thus mentioned, Christians? They are the very same people referred to in Verse 20. The Blessed Holy Spirit of God would never call a born-again believer such heinous names, for a born-again Christian has been thoroughly & eternally washed in the precious blood of Christ Jesus! And if the Blessed Holy Spirit does not say these people were saved, pray tell what biblical right do you have to suppose they are?

I repeat: Jesus nowhere offers us only a "temporal" salvation which is really no salvation whatever at all. Any person who becomes "re-lost" in your view would also have to be "re-saved" because theiir "first saving" resulted tragically in their becoming "re-lost." a state totally unknown in Holy Writ. Nice talking with you though. Have a great day all day today! Amen!

[He giveth more grace]

All you guys are doing is going around in circles. The prodigal son shows you can be saved, lost and re-saved.

Mr. Butero, friend, the son wasn't even in the age of grace, he was in the age of law, there is no mention of Christ in that setting, not point when he was blood washed and born again, IMO, at best he was a good Jew, bad Jew, then good Jew again under the old covenant. Please, Butero, give up your abstinence, I believe it is not simply your misinpretation, but actually rebellion, careful who is leading you.

Sorry everyone, if this is out of line, I am trying extremely hard to play softball, pray for me.

[He giveth more grace]

I lovingly disagree with your quik assertion (without specific biblical reference) that Peter says men were "re-lost". There is no such thing in God's Holy Word that men were "re-lost." Please note in 2 Peter 2:20 that it does not intimate that they were saved but that they had knowledge, and because of that particular knowledge they wre able to escape the pollutions of society, but they did not escape the eternal destiny of all Christ-rejectors which is Hell. They had enuf knowledge (as millions do) to keep them relatively moral (as millions are today), but check what the Holy Spirit said about these people with knowledge in Verses 12 thru 19 of 2 Peter 2: -

They are those that walk in "lust & uncleanness (Verse 12). These are "as natural brute beasts (verse 12). "They shall [/i]perish!" (Verse 12. "spots they are & blemishes" (Verses 12 & 13. "They cannot cease from sin (Verse 14). "They are wells without water" (Verse 17). In Verse 22 they're "likened to dogs & pigs." Now my dear friend who believes in only a "temporary" sal;vation, can you, in the light of this powerful context (which you have somehow overlooked), call those thus mentioned, Christians? They are the very same people referred to in Verse 20. The Blessed Holy Spirit of God would never call a born-again believer such heinous names, for a born-again Christian has been thoroughly & eternally washed in the precious blood of Christ Jesus! And if the Blessed Holy Spirit does not say these people were saved, pray tell what biblical right do you have to suppose they are?

I repeat: Jesus nowhere offers us only a "temporal" salvation which is really no salvation whatever at all. Any person who becomes "re-lost" in your view would also have to be "re-saved" because theiir "first saving" resulted tragically in their becoming "re-lost." a state totally unknown in Holy Writ. Nice talking with you though. Have a great day all day today! Amen!

A student of the word, beautiful post, Brother, and spot on regarding Eternal Security.

[deut31:12]

It's the height of all biblical wisdom to reject outright the false teaching of "Saved, Then 'Re-Lost'; Then 'Re-saved'; Then 'Re-lost'; Then....." Jesus never offers only "temporal" salvation, which, of course, is no salvation at all! "I give unto My sheep eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither shall any be plucked out of My hand!" Divine promise par excellence, yes? Thank You, Lord Jesus, for your everlasting salvation (John 3:16) purchased thru the blood of Your Cross once-for-all-time!

Amen! - It is just this blunt and simple. Temporary Salvation doesn't exist - never has - never will.

Please forgive me, but you are missing the point. It isn't about saved, not saved, saved, not saved. When I became a Christian God gave me the promise that I will have eternal life and no man, Satan, nor the angels can take that from me. What is trying to be conveyed is that your salvation be list if YOU give it up. This is possible.

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

This is a Christian who gave up his salvation because he would rather have the sins of the world.

Luke 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Now, if I have my hand on the plow that would mean that I am a Christian.

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The only way to be enlightened and taste the n=heavenly gift is to become a Christian. I can make the conscience choice to fall away (leave God) if I want. You will also see that it says that it is "impossible" to renew them if the choose to leave.

Also, God can give up on you if you, as a Christian, won't repent of your sins.

Romans 11:21-22 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

If my choice is to keep in the goodness of God is there and to do his will then there is nothing that can separate me from God, but the only thing that can separate me from God is sin. Whether I choose to leave God in pursuit of it or if I think I can keep sin as a Christian it will separate me from God.

If we sin and repent god is always there to forgive us, but if we choose to keep our sins and not repent of them then we can lose our salvation. Read the first three chapters of Revelation of the seven churches of Asia that were told to repent or they would lose their recognition from God.

[nChrist]

Some build false doctrines on gross misinterpretation of God's Word and failure to rightly divide it. The TRUTH is already here in this thread for all who want to see it, and it's blunt and simple. It appears that minds are made up on both sides, so I'm going to make one last statement and withdraw from this thread: One can only be TRULY Saved ONCE and it's for ETERNITY. Forget about all the "if's, but's, and maybe's". Hints:

Don't mix things that don't pertain to Salvation (i.e. rewards, privilege, exhortations for Christian Living, quality and quantity of relationship with God, living testimony before men) ,

Don't improperly mix law and grace,

Don't improperly mix FAITH and works,

Don't mix in the false doctrine of Calvinism - God desires that all men be saved and won't turn away any who want to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

This is a Christian who gave up his salvation because he would rather have the sins of the world.

No it isn't. The verse doesn't say that at all. Demas left Paul, not Christ. Demas deserted Paul and the work Paul was doing. It doesn't say that Demas departed from the faith. You going way beyond what the text actually says. It was no different with John Mark. He deserted Paul. Paul did not say Demas went back into living in sin. It says he preferred the world Meaning that he preferred the normal life he had before, not a life of sin. Please stick to what the text actually says.

Also, God can give up on you if you, as a Christian, won't repent of your sins.

Romans 11:21-22 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

That is not talking about forgiveness of sins. Paul is not even talking about salvation. He is warning Gentiles about being "cut off" if they become arrogant against the Jews. Read the context. Being grafted in is not the same as being saved. being grafted in is the result of salvation. Otherwise, salvation would be based on how you treat the Jews.

[deut31:12]

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

This is a Christian who gave up his salvation because he would rather have the sins of the world.

No it isn't. The verse doesn't say that at all. Demas left Paul, not Christ. Demas deserted Paul and the work Paul was doing. It doesn't say that Demas departed from the faith. You going way beyond what the text actually says. It was no different with John Mark. He deserted Paul. Paul did not say Demas went back into living in sin. It says he preferred the world Meaning that he preferred the normal life he had before, not a life of sin. Please stick to what the text actually says.

The key to that verse is why he left Paul. He left because of his love for this present world. We know that Jesus taught that you can't have two masters and Demas chose to make the world his love. If you love the world you can't love God.

Also, God can give up on you if you, as a Christian, won't repent of your sins.

Romans 11:21-22 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

That is not talking about forgiveness of sins. Paul is not even talking about salvation. He is warning Gentiles about being "cut off" if they become arrogant against the Jews. Read the context. Being grafted in is not the same as being saved. being grafted in is the result of salvation. Otherwise, salvation would be based on how you treat the Jews.

That is not true. The Jews were originally God's chosen people and because of their unbelief they were broken off and the Gentiles were grafted in to the root, which is Christ. He was warning the Gentiles not to become high minded because of this and that they can be broken off if they do not continue in his goodness. Meaning I have a choice to continue in the goodness of God or not. If I don't then I will be cut off.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

The word "IF" makes this conditional. If I don't do these things then the opposite happens.

Hebrews 4:9-11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357, on 06 March 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Quote

2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.

This is a Christian who gave up his salvation because he would rather have the sins of the world.

No it isn't. The verse doesn't say that at all. Demas left Paul, not Christ. Demas deserted Paul and the work Paul was doing. It doesn't say that Demas departed from the faith. You going way beyond what the text actually says. It was no different with John Mark. He deserted Paul. Paul did not say Demas went back into living in sin. It says he preferred the world Meaning that he preferred the normal life he had before, not a life of sin. Please stick to what the text actually says.

The key to that verse is why he left Paul. He left because of his love for this present world. We know that Jesus taught that you can't have two masters and Demas chose to make the world his love. If you love the world you can't love God.

You are taking the phrase "love for this present world" to mean that Demas wanted to live in sin more than he wanted to live for God, and that is simply not what the text says. I sense in Paul's words some angst. It is the same angst he had when John Mark abandoned them during their first missionary journey.

The text does not says that Demas abandoned the faith. To read it that way is to read something into the text. Paul does not say that Demas had forasaken the Lord because he loved the world more than the Lord. It simply says that Demas had abandoned the missionary work of Paul.

That is not true. The Jews were originally God's chosen people and because of their unbelief they were broken off and the Gentiles were grafted in to the root, which is Christ. He was warning the Gentiles not to become high minded because of this and that they can be broken off if they do not continue in his goodness. Meaning I have a choice to continue in the goodness of God or not. If I don't then I will be cut off.

The specific warning was not to become arrogant toward the branches (Rom. 11:18). The cutting off would be in response to how you treat the Jews.

The problem is that grafting in doesn't refer to salvation, so to be cut off doesn't mean a loss of salvation. The grafting in refers to one's participation in the blessings of the covenants of promise. That is the result of salvation, not salvation itself.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

The word "IF" makes this conditional. If I don't do these things then the opposite happens.

Well you need to study the Greek grammatical structure a little better because it is the "conditional" phraseology that you make it out to be. English doesn't reflect the nuances of either Greek or Hebrew and this sometimes leads to erroneous conclusions as the one you are presenting.

The use of conditions is not as limited in Greek as it is in English. There are 4 classes of conditional clauses in Greek. What we have above is the first class condition. The writer is assuming this condition to be reality, to be true. In other words, the Greek construction essentially follows the rationale that we will hold fast the confience because we have been made partakers. The second part is simply assumed true because the first part is true. It is the same type of construction we see in Col. 1:22-23 and in other places in the NT. That nuance is also true for Heb. 3:6. It doesn't come across very well in English and causes a lot of confusion and erroneous theology such as the view that we have to work for our salvation as you seem to think.

Hebrews 4:9-11 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Again, you are handling the Scripture in a very incorrect manner. The word Labor doesn't mean "work" in the Greek. It means to be eager or to be diligent. The exhortation is that we easrnestly enter into rest. Salvation is the result of work, but the result of entering into His rest.