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Understanding Job?

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Job 40:15-24 - Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.   (Read More...)

A behemoth isn't a Leviathan.  A behemoth is a land creature that eats grass.  It's not dino, it's a simple water ox.  The Leviathan is a different story.  There's no doubt it has both human and demonic faculties.

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2 hours ago, Soy Richard said:

Jesus directed people's attention to the fact that the OT spoke of him. Of course, in the prophecies about his birth and life and death, but there is so much more. He is portrayed in the lives and events recorded.

Earlier on the thread you said that you did not believe Christ is of the Godhead. see your quote below in red.  Jesus plainly said  that before Abraham was, he was.  Many see this verse and see Christ in all the situation that you mentioned.  It can lead one into strange places .    However , i have mentioned my take on what you are referring to and i understand the concept.

You said also that without portraying the episodes and likes that you mentioned, that if Christ is not seen in those then they just become interesting stories.  Then it all comes down  to  how one read his bible and understands what the narrative of those situation are to the reader.  David for example has many, many lessons to be had, like adultery, murder and also God appointing men to position of his choice.

I created a post titled  below.  I did so, because while many read the bible and are based in good solid churches and have good biblical upbringing, you find many also with interpretations and ideas that are not of the so called "mainstream" interpretation and practice, hence you could say how one chooses a denomination to participate in church ect.   Do you see the concept of " Type of Christ " mentioned in orthodox christianity ?.    Here is  the thing, if it helps you to understand your bible in a better way, then it's a choice of worship that satisfies your soul and  who can come between you and your maker. 

Those are my thoughts . 

...What is the driving force for the theology you have formulated in your christian walk . Some have even changed course after long years as they have come to see scripture differently as they previously had.
 

"Types are not supposed to be exact. Perhaps you might consider Job as a type of Christ and see if I'm right? I've never seen Christ as God either. For example, Jesus rejected being called 'good.'"

Soy Richard quote above.

Edited by warrior12

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10 hours ago, warrior12 said:

Earlier on the thread you said that you did not believe Christ is of the Godhead. see your quote below in red.  Jesus plainly said  that before Abraham was, he was.  Many see this verse and see Christ in all the situation that you mentioned.  It can lead one into strange places .    However , i have mentioned my take on what you are referring to and i understand the concept.

You said also that without portraying the episodes and likes that you mentioned, that if Christ is not seen in those then they just become interesting stories.  Then it all comes down  to  how one read his bible and understands what the narrative of those situation are to the reader.  David for example has many, many lessons to be had, like adultery, murder and also God appointing men to position of his choice.

I created a post titled  below.  I did so, because while many read the bible and are based in good solid churches and have good biblical upbringing, you find many also with interpretations and ideas that are not of the so called "mainstream" interpretation and practice, hence you could say how one chooses a denomination to participate in church ect.   Do you see the concept of " Type of Christ " mentioned in orthodox christianity ?.    Here is  the thing, if it helps you to understand your bible in a better way, then it's a choice of worship that satisfies your soul and  who can come between you and your maker. 

Those are my thoughts . 

...What is the driving force for the theology you have formulated in your christian walk . Some have even changed course after long years as they have come to see scripture differently as they previously had.
 

"Types are not supposed to be exact. Perhaps you might consider Job as a type of Christ and see if I'm right? I've never seen Christ as God either. For example, Jesus rejected being called 'good.'"

Soy Richard quote above.

In answer to you specific point, no, I don't believe that Jesus is God. I believe he was (is) the Son of God. I think the scriptures are clear that he was a man as we all are - sent of God to condemn sin in the flesh. I do not consider he was God in the flesh. I am confident I can deal with each verse(s) that people use to show/claim his divinity. You asked about his "before Abraham was, I am" claim. I have given my thoughts below. Before moving to that, let me also present a single question that no trinitarian has ever dealt with in a convincing manner.

If Jesus was God, where is the victory over the flesh? God cannot be tempted, true? James 1,13 Yet Jesus was tempted.

"Before Abraham was, I am."

i. This verse is readily misunderstood, as It was by the Jews with whom Jesus was in contention. The key to understanding what Jesus meant lies in taking it together with other scripture (see what follows)

ii. In these chapters in John, Jesus is arguing with the Jews who were implacably opposed to him. On the principle of 'catching the wise in their own craftiness' Jesus often responded in ways that he knew they would not understand. For example, in chapter 6, Jesus said to them, "the bread that I will give is my flesh" (v 51) which they completely misunderstood, saying, (v 52), "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"

Now, to "Before Abraham was, I am."

1. This was part of Jesus' reply to their question, Art thou greater than our father Abraham?" (John 8:53). In replying to this Jesus clearly was not saying that he was alive before Abraham, because he then said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day." (v 56). Abraham, to whom the gospel was preached (Galatians 3:8), was looking forward, not back, to the day of Christ. He saw it with the eye of faith, and "was glad." Jesus was yet to come See '2 - 4'' which follows.

2. God's whole purpose, not only with Christ but also with the world and the men and women upon it . was all formulated before He even began His creative work. The apostle Peter, speaking of Christ, says,

He "verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."(1 Peter 1:20). He was in the mind and purpose of God right from the beginning, but only appeared following his birth of Mary. John says in well known words, "And the Word" (logos - purpose) "was made flesh, and dwelt among us"(John114).  God's purpose from before the foundation of the world took a massive step forward with the birth of Christ.

3. We read in Revelation of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."(ch 13:8). This was in God's purpose right from the beginning, but it did not of course happen until his crucifiction some 4000 years later!

4. Paul speaks of the brethren and sisters at Ephesus in these terms,

   "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world . . ."(Eph.1:4). and then to Timothy, "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, .not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."(2 Tim.1:10).  Manifestly we have not existed from all eternity, but certainly were in the mind and purpose of God from the beginning..

It is with these scriptures in mind that we conclude that when Jesus said, "Before Abraham was, I am" he was pointing out that their father, Abraham, lived some 2000 years earlier, but that the whole purpose of God centred in him, was foreordained before the foundation of the world.

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On 7/29/2017 at 10:55 AM, tsth said:

If you will stick to topic, rather than arguing about a side issue, the thread will stay on course, and be much more productive.

Just sayin.  :-)

 

IN HIs Love,

Suzanne

 

I fully stand by this request.  This is not a forum where debates can derail a thread.  If the subject being discussed interests you, reply according to the topic.  If you have a side issue you would like to discuss, start another thread.  If the conversation continues to derail this study, those involved will be removed from the discussion.  I will split the side issues from this thread when time allows me to, or you can start your own thread and I will merge it with your new thread. 

Either way, stick to the study at hand.

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