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Understanding Job?


tsth

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Hello Everyone,

Job is one of my favorite books of the bible. God has kept me in that book for a very long time over the past several years. I haven't spent much good quality time reading these post in relation to Job. I will be doing that over the next few days. But has anyone pointed out the great fact that in the beginning of Job it is God who brings Job up to the devil to begin with. The devil didn't point out Job but God said "have you considered my servant Job?" I think there is allot to be said about that fact. We can always begin with the sovereign nature of God as a starting point!!

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Guest pilgrim1986

One of the most significant things about Job as a person is that He was a righteous person. God called him perfect although this does not mean he was sinless. The thing we can learn about him today is that the righteous do suffer innocently. Job 2:3 says that God had no cause to destroy him speaking to Satan on Jobs defence. As a person God was pleased with Job. The most significant thing we can benefit from this true story about a righteous person who suffered innocently is that as Christians we can also expect to suffer innocently. We've been justified in Christ our sins are forgiven and God has nothing against us. But to some degree all true Christians will identify with Christ who suffered innocently. The devils plan is to turn you and I away and destroy through suffering, but God in allowing Satan to come against us only as God limits him is to make us more like Jesus.

Jobs three comforters were really true friends. We go to the hospital and visit people but these friends not only traveled along way but sat with him for seven days before even talking in an ash heap. The fact that they had good intentions is clear but they were under conviction because if what Job was saying was true then they to could suffer innocently. Job's testimony of innocents and righteousness put them on the defence and they lost there compassion and good intent. The thing that stands out is that they were a type of many Christians today who have a very narrow view of God. There theology had everything figured out . But God is so vast and so holy we mere humans cannot fathom His greatness, power and the good things God has planed for the faithful who will stay true to Christ.

The Lord Bless you

http://www.foundationsinchristianity.org/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Edited by pilgrim1986
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How many here believe God can be tempted, incited, moved, or whatever other word there is for influenced, by evil ?

Job chapter 2, verse 3 says exactly that, and even God Himself is quoted as saying it.

Edited by Franky67
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How many here believe God can be tempted, incited, moved, or whatever other word there is for influenced, by evil ?

Job chapter 2, verse 3 says exactly that, and even God Himself is quoted as saying it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Lord didn't destroy Job without cause. Satan, at this point, was trying to persuade the Lord to do so, yes, but such was not done, nor allowed.

James 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Let me just quote my NAS version, Job 2:3

"And the Lord said to Satan 'Have you considered my servant Job? for there is no one like him on earth,a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you,(satan) incited Me (God) against him, to ruin him without cause'. "

Now this "ruining him without cause" was done in the past, back in chapter one, verse twelve. It was already done, It WAS allowed. Satan wasn't trying to persuade God, he DID persuade the Lord, If you believe the book of Job.

It's already been done when God says what he said highlighted in red above, which is exactly what James 1:13 says COULD NOT HAPPEN, yet in Job 2:3, God Himself stated, what ever words yours, or other versions use for tempt, incited, movedst, or whatever, God said that's what satan did.

I can find no other place in the word where God was tempted by evil, except in Job.

So that tells me that the book of Job is not an accurate description of God, unless God decided to change His ways between the book of Job, and James, and many other places where He said He does not change, and connot be temped by evil.

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This is what I believe God has shown me about Job.

God is telling Satan and us that Job is born again of the Spirit from above. He is saved by Grace, by the blood of the Lamb, the only reason that any man is justified before God.

However, our brother had lost sight of the Gift of God and by what manner he was saved. He had taken it upon himself to be mediator between his children and God. This can only be fulfilled by one Man, Jesus, the Christ of God.

He was trying to be their saviour, not trusting them to God.

Job had been deceived into dead works by Satan and was putting himself under the letter of the law again.

Love, Dave

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I am compelled to go back to Job again. To study further. To ask, "what was it about Job?" What is significant about him? About Elihu? What is the lesson to learn? I have studied extensively and have had many questions answered about him, but the Lord brought me back again, to see what is relative to "today". What have I missed Lord? What did I not see about him, for you have taught me so much, but there is more. Job is presumably the first book of the Bible written. This is significant in itself I think. Here are my main questions to begin with.

1. What is "so significant" to learn about Job, as a person?

2. Why is Elihu "so significant"?

3. How does this Book relate/teach us regarding today's Christian?

I hope others would go with me in this study? But if not, that's ok, I just am lead to share what I find as I go.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Summary of Job:

The book of Job shows clearly that God is allowing Satan to test men to see if they will do good or evil. God told Satan that Job was a righteous man. Satan said that Job feared God because God gave him so much, but take away what he has and he would curse God. So God allowed Satan to test Job and take away what he had. Job stayed righteous. God told Satan a second time that Job was righteous. Satan told God that Job would curse God if God took away his health. So God allowed Satan to take away Job's health, but he could not kill Job. Satan smote Job with boils from head to toe. Job still stayed righteous. Then Job' friends came along and tried to tell Job that he must have sinned to be punished like this. They started falsely accusing Job of sinning and that is why he was punished. Job started thinking that God may have made a mistake in his case. Job knew he was righteous, so his punishment must have been a mistake. He wanted to talk to God about it. Then God spoke to Job and showed him things from his creation, indicating to Job that God could do anything. Therefore, God did not make a mistake; God knew what He was doing in Job's case.

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

In other words God was saying I can do anything, look at my creation. Can you do that? Are you going to say that God made a mistake and you are right? Job repented, of his false view, and considered himself to be vile for thinking that.

Because Job passed his testing and stayed righteous and did not curse God, Job was given by God twice as much as he had before.

God told Job's friends that they were wrong in what they were saying, and they would be forgiven if Job made an offering for them. Elihu was so wrong in what he said that he was simply dismissed as darkening council by words without knowledge.

Elihu was the young man and had not seen enough of life to know how things really are so his reasoning was based on false assumptions.

In studying the book of Job you must realize that Job is the only one that spoke rightly, and Job's words are the only words that can be taken as scripture; except for the part where Job was wrong in thinking God must have made a mistake. The words of the other four people should not be taken as scripture because it is stated that they were wrong.

Most of the book of Job therefore is an example of wrong thinking, to show you what wrong thinking is. So, disregard the words of the other 4 people and only take Job's words as mostly correct.

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I am compelled to go back to Job again. To study further. To ask, "what was it about Job?" What is significant about him? About Elihu? What is the lesson to learn? I have studied extensively and have had many questions answered about him, but the Lord brought me back again, to see what is relative to "today". What have I missed Lord? What did I not see about him, for you have taught me so much, but there is more. Job is presumably the first book of the Bible written. This is significant in itself I think. Here are my main questions to begin with.

1. What is "so significant" to learn about Job, as a person?

2. Why is Elihu "so significant"?

3. How does this Book relate/teach us regarding today's Christian?

I hope others would go with me in this study? But if not, that's ok, I just am lead to share what I find as I go.

In His Love,

Suzanne

1. What is "so significant" to learn about Job, as a person?

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job. And that man was perfect and upright, and one who feared God and turned aside from evil.

He had reached a point of maturity in his life(I wonder how old Job was before he reached this level of maturity to be able to stand the test he was about to go through)where his relationship(faith in God) was strong enough to stand the test.

And because of his faith in God inwardly to God, he was able to live by faith outwardly in his daily life.

Satan saw this and I believe hated Job because of this. And so he began to plan his downfall.

2. Why is Elihu "so significant"?

Job 33:13 Why do you fight against Him? For He does not give account for any of His matters.

Job 33:19 He is also chastened with pain on his bed, and enduring strife in his bones;

Job 33:20 so that his life is sick of bread, and his soul desirable food.

Jobs three friends accuse him of not being right with God(sin in his life) and thats why God is punishing him, and he is in need of repentance, which was not the case.

Elihu points out to Job that even though there is no known sin you can see in your life, that your wrong to question Gods motives in chastening you. That Gods ways are not to be ?, but that if we listen to what God is saying to us in our afflictions we can have a even deeper relationship with him. So in the end Job had to see that as righteous as he was he allowed it to turn into self-righteousness(pride).

3. How does this Book relate/teach us regarding today's Christian?

It speaks to me personal in that God allowed me to experience little trails for the first 15 r's in my relationship with him because I believe he was preparing me for what was to come, he was building my faith up in him little by little. But as I grew in the Lord so did the trails(as they should).

Then I lost my health, then my job,home, and had to move in with my daughter& son-law, and i almost lost my wife. This went on for several r's. and I learned to trust and love God more in the end. But the one difficult thing i had to learn is that so many Christians think like Jobs three friends(and I thourght that way to at one point in my life) that if you do good God blesses you and if you sin then God chastens you, or holds back hes blessings. This is true and you know if your sinning againts God or if God is just refining you to be more like Christ.

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Amen Eddie B! I TOTALLY agree! It is in our afflictions that we are brought/wooed by God's Holy Spirit, to relinquish ourselves to His Lordship and Guidance. It was great affliction that brought me to yield to the Lord My God!!!!

There is a portion that Elihu speaks of these afflictions/fetters, and how people respond to them:

Job 36

1 Elihu continued: 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf. 3 I get my knowledge from afar; I will ascribe justice to my Maker. 4 Be assured that my words are not false; one perfect in knowledge is with you.

5 "God is mighty, but does not despise men; he is mighty, and firm in his purpose. 6 He does not keep the wicked alive but gives the afflicted their rights. 7 He does not take his eyes off the righteous; he enthrones them with kings and exalts them forever. 8 But if men are bound in chains, held fast by cords of affliction, 9 he tells them what they have done-- that they have sinned arrogantly. 10 He makes them listen to correction and commands them to repent of their evil. 11 If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity and their years in contentment. 12 But if they do not listen, they will perish by the sword and die without knowledge. 13 "The godless in heart harbor resentment; even when he fetters them, they do not cry for help. 14 They die in their youth, among male prostitutes of the shrines.

15 But those who suffer he delivers in their suffering; he speaks to them in their affliction. 16 "He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food.

For those of us, who experienced a life of great rebellion and lawlessness, HE wooed us with great affliction and fetters, so that we might stop and listen, and turn in repentance, because we became SO AFFLICTED. We then were wooed by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

Those who have been forgiven much, love much.

In His Love,

Suzanne

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There is a portion that Elihu speaks of these afflictions/fetters, and how people respond to them:

Job 36

1 Elihu continued: 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf. 3 I get my knowledge from afar; I will ascribe justice to my Maker. 4 Be assured that my words are not false; one perfect in knowledge is with you.

5 "God is mighty, but does not despise men; he is mighty, and firm in his purpose. 6 He does not keep the wicked alive but gives the afflicted their rights. 7 He does not take his eyes off the righteous; he enthrones them with kings and exalts them forever. 8 But if men are bound in chains, held fast by cords of affliction, 9 he tells them what they have done-- that they have sinned arrogantly. 10 He makes them listen to correction and commands them to repent of their evil. 11 If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity and their years in contentment. 12 But if they do not listen, they will perish by the sword and die without knowledge. 13 "The godless in heart harbor resentment; even when he fetters them, they do not cry for help. 14 They die in their youth, among male prostitutes of the shrines.

15 But those who suffer he delivers in their suffering; he speaks to them in their affliction. 16 "He is wooing you from the jaws of distress to a spacious place free from restriction, to the comfort of your table laden with choice food.

For those of us, who experienced a life of great rebellion and lawlessness, HE wooed us with great affliction and fetters, so that we might stop and listen, and turn in repentance, because we became SO AFFLICTED. We then were wooed by the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD.

Those who have been forgiven much, love much.

In His Love,

Suzanne

There is a portion that Elihu speaks of these afflictions/fetters, and how people respond to them:

Thats a good point to keep in mind, how do we respond to them shows our true spiritual state, and how patient God is with us.

I must confess how much I fall short of Gods love for me.I dont always respond correctly, it usualy takes me a little time to get what God is saying to me.Thank God for his Holy Spirit who enlightens and enables us to go on for Christ sake.

Phi 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, cultivate your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Phi 2:13 For it is God who works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Phi 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings,

Phi 2:15 so that you may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation. Among these you shine as lights in the world,

Phi 2:16 holding forth the Word of Life, so that I may rejoice with you in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain nor labored in vain.

Edited by Eddie B
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a very interesting bunch of posts. too many to comment on and most things have already been said, but i will say to frankie and maybe someone with a better memory than mine or with ability to reference can help with location - i believe that at the end of the book, god states that he will not allow satan to "manipulate" him again. sori i cant give you a reference but it has been a long time since i read it.

i do agree though that god started it all and it does show that god doesnt think like us at all. when we lose our crops, we dont think that its of god, when our kids die, we dont think it was god, when we are sick we dont think its god. most of us blame satan. think about what happened in job. sure, satan was the tool but god used the tool to prove a point. we need to realize that bad things can come from god and then to continue in and thru the bad things praising god for them. hard to do, sure, but still essential to a tru walk.

Edited by dameo
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