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Ervin

Is it ever OK to lie?

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I actually says in Revelation 22:15 "...and whoever loves and practices a lie."

This is far different then saving someones life by deceiving the one who wishes to do harm to them.

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What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

Is lying ever not a sin? That's the real question isn't it?

Nope. Always a sin. But we do not live in heaven do we?

Will we at times be prompted to withhold truth? <--- Another way of saying a lie.

If you read the books of Hebrews and James and the Epistles of John you will have more questions about sin (lying is mentioned among them) than you will have answers.

"These things are written that you sin not"

"If anyone willfully sins after he has known the truth (about salvation in Christ) no sacrifice for sins is left."

"There is a sin that is unto death, I do not suggest you pray about it. There is a sin not to death."

HUH?

Read Romans 3-8 (and pay close attention to chapter 7). And remember God orchestrates all things (the good and the evil) to achieve his purposes.

Is lying the unpardonable sin? No. Remember that when you come across texts like all liars will be assigned a place in the lake of fire... (in the over all context of the entire Bible we understand that means those who are not redeemed from death and cleansed by the blood of Christ) so the unsaved liars will be assigned a place in the lake of fire...

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TheTruthLivesForever - what do you do with Jehu using deception to gather and then kill the prophets of Baal? God later rewarded him for it.

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If you want to JUSTIFY man and yourself then you go right ahead. The question was " When is it ok to lie " my answer was NEVER and i backed it up with Scripture. If it is OK for you to lie then go right ahead and JUSTIFY it all you like......

Do you realise you are talking to a seeker? noidea.gif

Did you think using mockery / sarcasm was going to edify?

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What if for instance you are an innocent person but telling the truth would get you killed? What if you are hiding inocent people from criminals and you are doing so by lying? What if you are in a war, isn't all war deception in it self(I read this somwhete), hoe can you not lie(maybe if you refuse to fight).

So my question is: When is it ok to lie?

Thanks

I believe all lies are straight from the pit of hell Ervin and NO liars will enter the kingdom of GOD; " But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" Rev21:8

" It is NEVER OK to lie " Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John8:44

I used to believe as you do, so I don't say anything bad about your comment. However I no longer believe this way, and here is why.

#1. Rahab's lie protected the lives of 2 Israelites, and God actually rewarded her for it. #2. Moses's mother technically lied by hiding him from the authorities, which saved his life.

#3. Abraham's lie protected his life. #4. Even the apostles technically lied when they went on the run instead of turning themselves in to the authorities.

There are many times in scripture where a lie is NOT actually condemned, and in fact some of the greatest miracles or stories in scripture involved lies that were almost necesarry.

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TheTruthLivesForever - what do you do with Jehu using deception to gather and then kill the prophets of Baal? God later rewarded him for it.

Worse when God Himself seeks a deceiving and blesses that spirit to prosper! 1 Kings 22:19-23

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This has nothing to do with the Old Covenant and you cannot dismiss the entire old testament as if none of it's passages accurately describe God for us in these days. The fact that Jesus permanently fulfils the sacrifice and steps in as our High Priest in no way changes the nature of God. He is one and the same... so no you cannot dismiss the entire old testament the way you are to prove your point.

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If you want to JUSTIFY man and yourself then you go right ahead. The question was " When is it ok to lie " my answer was NEVER and i backed it up with Scripture. If it is OK for you to lie then go right ahead and JUSTIFY it all you like......

Do you realise you are talking to a seeker? noidea.gif

Did you think using mockery / sarcasm was going to edify?

If he is an unbeliever then why is he here ?

If he listens to the TRUTH and hears that it is NOT ok to lie then it might make him free.

Seekers come here all the time and are absolutely welcome. And no, we aren't encouraging people to lie as a habit, but there were rare occasions in the bible where a lie / deception was part of God's plan or was blessed by God.

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.... If he is an unbeliever then why is he here....

:thumbsup:

Because He Is Loved

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

And Loved

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16

And Loved

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

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This has nothing to do with the Old Covenant and you cannot dismiss the entire old testament as if none of it's passages accurately describe God for us in these days. The fact that Jesus permanently fulfils the sacrifice and steps in as our High Priest in no way changes the nature of God. He is one and the same... so no you cannot dismiss the entire old testament the way you are to prove your point.

You did not answer my questions to you Candice as per usual........

Well I don't think you have answered mine either, in that you haven't explained why you reject the God of the Old Testament by calling it all "old covenant".

I haven't answered your question because it really misrepresents my position. I am not suggesting we lie all we like, I'm just saying there are rare cases in which it is necessary and has been blessed by the Lord.

If you want to JUSTIFY man and yourself then you go right ahead. The question was " When is it ok to lie " my answer was NEVER and i backed it up with Scripture. If it is OK for you to lie then go right ahead and JUSTIFY it all you like......

Do you realise you are talking to a seeker? noidea.gif

Did you think using mockery / sarcasm was going to edify?

If he is an unbeliever then why is he here ?

If he listens to the TRUTH and hears that it is NOT ok to lie then it might make him free.

Seekers come here all the time and are absolutely welcome. And no, we aren't encouraging people to lie as a habit, but there were rare occasions in the bible where a lie / deception was part of God's plan or was blessed by God.

If he is a "seeker" are you not guilty of creating a stumblingblock to Him by saying it is ok to lie and use a couple of instances where GOD used subtilty and a lying spirit to destroy his enemies an do His Will ?

No I don't think I have put a stumbling block in front of him :). If a young child was hidden in my house, and a man knocked on my door wanting to know the whereabouts of the child to kill him, I'd lie through my teeth 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

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