Jump to content
IGNORED

The Rapture by Terry James


angels4u

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,665
  • Content Per Day:  0.46
  • Reputation:   512
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  05/11/2014
  • Status:  Offline

7 minutes ago, seeking the lost said:

Yes this is the first resurrection which means that there was not one before it and the next one will cover everyone else that this one does not.  The phrase  "the rest of the dead" means righteous and unrighteous.  Then comes the judgement.  These are the words that I depend on without mans thoughts.

 

Not really, because the meaning of Rev.20:5 about the rest of the dead not living again until the 1,000 years is over is not about the raising of the dead. It's about a change of the soul condition so as to be joined with the "first resurrection" instead of perishing at the Judgment.

When Jesus comes as a thief on the day of the Lord, that is when God's consuming fire will literally END this present flesh world.

That is what Paul was talking about with those on earth being changed at the twinkling of an eye to the "spiritual body" image. In Isaiah 25 is where Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up in victory, showing ALL peoples alive on earth will be changed on that day.

In the Greek of 1 Cor.15, Paul covered TWO changes in the 1 Cor.15:53 verse. The 1st change is the change of our flesh body (incorruption) to the spiritual body (incorruption), AND a change of our soul condition ("this mortal" part) to put on immortality.

Those of the "resurrection of damnation" which are raised on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming per John 5:28-29 will not... put on immortality. Their souls will still be in a liable to die condition subject to the "second death" like the Rev.20 Scripture says. Only those of the "first resurrection" will go through BOTH changes on the day of Christ's return, and thus will never be subject to the "second death".

When Jesus comes to end this world on the "day of the Lord", only the "second death" will be in effect thereafter. Flesh death will be a thing of the past, gone with this world. Every soul will be of one or two resurrection types, the resurrection of life, or the resurrection of damnation.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,665
  • Content Per Day:  0.46
  • Reputation:   512
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  05/11/2014
  • Status:  Offline

On 10/20/2016 at 10:47 AM, Giller said:

Well maybe just one more time.

Let us actually go to the well known rapture scripture.

1Th 4:14-18
(14)  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
(15)  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16)  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17)  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
(18)  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 

Here it is mentioning the coming of the Lord (singular) , which shows it is talking about one day.

So this event happens all on the same day.

Some may say that the resurrection of the just and unjust refers to this , but 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, only speaks of just people.

So the dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive and remain get caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.

So in this coming, the Lord himself descends from heaven , now I know that some say that the rapture of the church happens at the end of the millenial reign , which when the millenial is over , and satan gets judged , you then read of the great white throne of judgment , and at this great white throne of judgment you do not see any evidence of Christ descending in some form , but of just people in hell being delivered up before the great white throne of judgment.

Now is there hard evidence of when the rapture will take place ?

I believe and know there is.

But I want to quote a few scriptures before I go to that.

1Co 15:51-55
(51)  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52)  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(53)  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54)  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
(55)  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
 

This event of the rapture, will happen very quickly , in fact in the twinkling of an eye.

It will happen at the last trump.

Now I know that there might be many various interpretations of what the last trump actually means , could there be successive trumpet blows before this last trump ? It is possible , but there is no clear explanation to this , so we should not go over the edge on our interpretation of this.

In the case of death here , death gets swallowed up in victory , when our corruptible bodies put on incorruption.

Here it is not talking about verses like: Rev_20:14  .....And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire....but rather it is talking about believer's having victory over death through their corruptible bodies putting on incorruption , and not to Revelation 20:14 , for the believer's body is the context here.

So now we go unto other scriptures.

Will we go through the 7 year tribulation period ?

1Th 1:10
(10)  And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

First it mentions Christ coming , and it says to wait for him from heaven...which delivered us from the wrath to come, it ties both of these in the same sentence , is this just a coincidence ?

No , for there are no coincidences in the word.

And anyhow what is it referring to here , as regards delivering us from the wrath to come ?

Well some say that it just refers to God's general wrath , that God will protect us in the midst of whatever wrath he pours out.

Others might use this in way to say that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath to were we get cast in hell or even the lake of fire.

But what does it actually say:"which delivered us from the wrath to come".

It is a wrath that is to come , it is not the wraths of God that are to come , but rather it is a specific wrath that is to come.

God through salvation, has already delivered us from this specific wrath to come , all we are doing now , in regards to this, is waiting for his Son from heaven , so we do not go through this wrath that is to come.

It is a futuristic wrath.

What wrath is it referring to ?

Rev 6:16-17
(16)  And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
(17)  For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This is mentioned when the sixth seal is open, and when we get to the sixth seal , we are not even at the mid point of the tribulation period yet, and 7 trumpets still have to be sounded before we get there.

At this point is when the people of the earth start to realize that what was and is being poured out on the earth is actually this period that the bible talks of which is  God's wrath to come.

Notice the similarities with Revelations and Thessalonians.

1.-delivered us from the wrath to come

2.-the great day of his wrath is come

So now we get to another scripture.

Rev 3:10-11
(10)  Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
(11)  Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

It says that:"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world...........".

And afterwards it says:"Behold, I come quickly" ,is this just a coincidence also ?

The hour of temptation begins after the rapture takes place , which the hour of the rapture we do not know.

And the whole world will be tried from the beginning of the tribulation period to the end.

And picture this , people disappearing from vehicles , planes , buses, cranes etc , it will cause accidents world wide.

But some will say I am still not convinced.

Well ok then , let us go unto another scripture.

Luk 21:36
(36)  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

It mentions escaping all these things that shall come to pass , and to stand before the Son of man, is it a coincidence here also , that it mentions standing before the Son of man , and escaping these things , mentioning them side by side to each other ?

Aren't you getting the clue that God is trying to tell us something here ?

Now here are some quotes of a litte study I wrote:

[....It talks about being accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass , what things ?

Well all the things mentioned from Luke 21:8 to Luke 21:28.

Now from Luke 21:8 to Luke 21:23 it has a double meaning , which it is referring to the time leading up to a.d 70 , but also to the first 3 1/2 years of the tibulation period ,and compare these scriptures to history that talks of the time leading towards a.d 70 , but also compare it with the 7 seals , and the 7 trumpets.

But from Luke 21:24 to Luke 21:28 , it refers strictly to the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation period , you can say the time leading to the second coming....

...It says that we can be accounted worthy to escape all of these things that shall come to pass ,through being watchful and prayerful ,for it would not say this , if this could not be.

So what shall we escape ? Well here are some of the things that shall come to pass in between Luke 21:8 to Luke 21:28 that we shall escape.

We shall escape:-great earthquakes in divers places
We shall escape:-famines, and pestilences
We shall escape:-being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. 
We shall escape:-some of you being caused to be put to death. 

Now the last 2 is refering to Christians being brought before kings and being put to death ,and it says that we shall escape all these things that shall come to pass , which obviously , cannot refer to the a.d. 70 side of things , for in that time many of the disciples were brought before kings and rulers and were put to death , which shows they did not escape these things that came to pass.

But the church that is alive at the time of the tribulation period , shall escape all these things , and the only way to escape all of these things that shall come to pass , is through the rapture of the church.

It says that we shall escape all of the things that will come to pass , to pass , to pass !!!!!!!

All means all , no private interpretation needed.

And it goes on to say” to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

Well when we escape all these things , we will be standing before the Son of man.

God bless , and amen....]

 

You were doing good until you got into supposition on which 'wrath' event Apostle Paul was speaking of, and started misapplying that in attempt to prove a Pre-trib Rapture of the Church.

One of the most important understandings missing from those taught the Pre-trib Rapture theory is a thorough study in the Old Testament prophets about the events for the end of this world.

Isa 25:6-9
6 And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.

7 And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation.
KJV

That is where Apostle Paul was pulling from about death being swallowed up in the 1 Cor.15 chapter regarding the resurrection.

The "face of the covering cast over all people", and the "vail that is spread over all nations" that is to be destroyed is about the veil that separates the heavenly from the earthly, ending the things of this present world, like our flesh. The only type of death remaining after Jesus comes per Rev.20 is the "second death", which is only about the death of one's spirit-soul into the "lake of fire".

All peoples alive on earth are changed at the twinkling of an eye to their spiritual bodies on the day of Jesus' coming on the day of the Lord, i.e., the last day of this world. That is when Scripture declares the resurrection will happen, on the last day.

The specific 'wrath' Apostle Paul was pointing to is about the events on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming as a thief on the day of the Lord. It's that day of God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked, the event you quoted from the end of Rev.6 about which the wicked will fear and want to hide.

That specific 'wrath' is not the wrath of the previous vials of Rev.16 that occurs during the tribulation. It is a final wrath on the final day of this world that Paul was speaking of in 1 Thess.5. When he said we are not appointed to that 'wrath', he was covering what the deceived will be saying on the day it comes, i.e., "Peace and safety", and then "sudden destruction" comes upon "them", Paul said. That is a day of the Lord timing event. It is also the day Jesus comes to gather His Church, because in Rev.16:15 He said He comes "as a thief" while still warning His Church on earth. That "day of the Lord" is to come "as a thief in the night" Paul and Peter said.

In Matt.24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus was speaking to His elect of His Church, His disciples during the time of His 1st coming. Now Paul said in Ephesians 2 that the foundation of the Church is made up of the prophets, the Apostles, and our Lord Jesus as its Chief Cornerstone, so anyone who tries to say Jesus was not speaking warnings to His Church with His Olivet discourse is 'off their rocker'.

And this is when Jesus said He will come to gather His Church per His Olivet discourse:

Matt 24:29-31
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

That trumpet of course is that "last trump" you mentioned from Paul in 1 Cor.15. It is also the 7th Trumpet of Rev.11 that will occur with the final 3rd Woe. Immediately after that 7th Trumpet we are shown all the kingdoms of this world becoming those of The Father and of His Son. That shows of a certainty that Christ is at that moment reigning over all nations and peoples on earth.

In the Mark 13:24-27 version of this, the saints on earth are gathered, so these two examples, Matt.24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 both align perfectly with the order of events Paul gave in 1 Thess.4.

Immediately AFTER the tribulation Jesus comes to gather us, and pour out His cup of wrath upon the wicked. He does not come prior to that. No pre-trib rapture. Only a gathering at the second coming at the end of this world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  3
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  494
  • Content Per Day:  0.17
  • Reputation:   208
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/15/2016
  • Status:  Offline

20 hours ago, Salty said:

Not really, because the meaning of Rev.20:5 about the rest of the dead not living again until the 1,000 years is over is not about the raising of the dead. It's about a change of the soul condition so as to be joined with the "first resurrection" instead of perishing at the Judgment.

What do you mean? Rev. 20:5 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.  Lived not until the thousand years are finished indicates very clearly they are raised to be judged at least.

 

20 hours ago, Salty said:

It's about a change of the soul condition so as to be joined with the "first resurrection" instead of perishing at the Judgment.

What does perishing at the judgement mean?  Does that mean total annihilation, a ceasing to exist? 

I do agree with you that this is when this present earth and heaven are destroyed.  That shows the purpose of the rapture which occurs when the rest of the dead are raised to life is to take us to the new heaven and the new earth.  Do you see how the resurrection and the rapture go together.  That is the time of changing.

Tell me more about your view of the second death.  Rev. 20:6 indicates that those in the millennium that are not of the first resurrection will be able to be deceived by satan, this is the second death. 

  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  1
  • Topic Count:  8
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  1,665
  • Content Per Day:  0.46
  • Reputation:   512
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  05/11/2014
  • Status:  Offline

On 10/23/2016 at 3:59 PM, seeking the lost said:

What do you mean? Rev. 20:5 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.  Lived not until the thousand years are finished indicates very clearly they are raised to be judged at least.

 

What does perishing at the judgement mean?  Does that mean total annihilation, a ceasing to exist? 

I do agree with you that this is when this present earth and heaven are destroyed.  That shows the purpose of the rapture which occurs when the rest of the dead are raised to life is to take us to the new heaven and the new earth.  Do you see how the resurrection and the rapture go together.  That is the time of changing.

Tell me more about your view of the second death.  Rev. 20:6 indicates that those in the millennium that are not of the first resurrection will be able to be deceived by satan, this is the second death. 

  Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The error many make with the Revelation 20 chapter is not understanding the event of God's consuming fire set to destroy this present world by fire (2 Pet.3:10; end of Heb.12, etc.). Even the Daniel 3 event of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego being thrown in the hot fiery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary is to serve as an example of the elements of this world being burned up on the final day of this present world. Jesus was with them in that hot fiery furnace, and when they came out, their clothes did not even smell of smoke.

That has to be understood coupled with what Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 about those of us still alive on earth at that day, being 'changed' at the twinkling of an eye to our spiritual bodies. Paul in 2 Cor.5 was even hinting to this future event at the end of this world when speaking that if our flesh tabernacle were 'dissolved', we have another building, eternal in the heavens of God. He was speaking of that same "spiritual body" of 1 Cor.15 that those still alive will be 'changed' to.

Now another error men's traditions has made on this, is thinking that 'change' to the "spiritual body" will be only for those of the "first resurrection". No, Isaiah 25 hints that change will be for all peoples still alive on earth, not just Christ's Church. Jesus showed in John 5:28-29 two different resurrection types will manifest on that day, those who did good to the "resurrection of life", and those who did evil to the "resurrection of damnation". That is to occur on the day of Jesus' return, the last day of this world when God's consuming fire will burn the elements of this world off the surface of the earth, as per 2 Peter 3:10.

God's consuming fire will NOT HARM those of Christ's Church. Snap your fingers, and it's all over, that's how fast the 1 Cor.15 change will be, including for most of the nations. But for some of the armies which come up against Israel on the last day, some of them will be destroyed by that consuming fire event, as per Zech.14. That chapter gives a vivid description of their destruction with their eyes melting in their sockets, their flesh shall consume away as they stand on their feet, etc. It then shows some of those left to go up to Jerusalem year to year to worship Christ.

What these things point to is this 'fleshy' world will be over on that day of The Lord when Jesus comes to gather His Church. That means flesh death will be over and done with, as it is a thing of this present world, not of the next world. The only type of death remaining per Rev.20 is the "second death" which is not... a death unto the flesh, but unto one's spirit with soul into the "lake of fire".

 

Like I've shown before, in 1 Cor.15:53, Paul used 4 different Greek words to show TWO changes that must occur to put on "immortality" thru Christ Jesus:

corruption (flesh body) must put on incorruption ("spiritual body")

AND (a conjunction linking two separate ideas)

"this mortal" must put on "immortality"

 

Only the saved believers on Jesus Christ will have BOTH of those changes.

But the wicked ("resurrection of damnation") will only have the 1st change, a change from a body of corruption (flesh) to a body of incorruption ("spiritual body"). Yet these will still be thought of as THE DEAD. It's because their SOULS will still be in a liable to die condition into the lake of fire because of rejecting Jesus Christ as The Saviour. This is the idea of some of them not 'living' again until the 1,000 years are over. To LIVE in the time after Jesus' return, means to have Eternal Life. Without the 2nd change of the soul putting on immortality one does not have eternal life, and thus are considered as DEAD.

This is how ALL souls will stand in judgment before the Judgment Seat of Christ. All the dead will be raised before the lake of fire event. And only... those who have dead souls will perish in the lake of fire at the end of the future 1,000 years.

To show this, in The Gospels, Jesus taught about the blind Pharisees, how they metaphorically appeared on the outside like whited tombs, but inside were full dead men's bones. He even compared them to graves which mean walk over not aware.

Therefore, in God's Word, there's a concept of flesh death which is not to the soul, and then there's a concept of spiritual death which is to the soul. The lake of fire event at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign is specifically a destruction of one's spirit with soul. I personally believe that the wicked will choose to go into that lake of fire instead believing on Christ Jesus, because one of the main reasons for the 1,000 year Millennium reign by Christ and His elect is so all deceptions are removed, and the wicked can fully know the Truth without Satan affecting that. That's mean those who perish will have no excuse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  17
  • Topic Count:  344
  • Topics Per Day:  0.13
  • Content Count:  7,393
  • Content Per Day:  2.70
  • Reputation:   5,321
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  09/27/2016
  • Status:  Offline

Notwithstanding all the horrible persecution of Christians worldwide that is rapidly escalating.  Who can deny that here in America, the persecution of Christians has begun in earnest?  

We are being labeled as "hate groups", intolerant, a "terrorist group" spouting "hate speech" and being constantly mocked all over in the media. Our government representatives in their infinate wisdom, are passing legislation calling evil good and good evil. Forcing people of faith and businesses to cater and serve people and groups that are called abominations by the Lord Himself. 

To quote the great evangelist Billy Grahams wife Ruth, "if God doesn't judge America soon, He owes an apology to Sodom and Gomorrah".

I believe the Lord has already turned His face away from our nation and has left us to our own sinful devices. I highly suspect a reason why the Lord has yet to judge our nation with wrath, is because of our 'spotty at times' support for the nation of Israel. Now our government and our elite masters have been withdrawing our support for Israel, and they are trying their best to divide what God gave Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and their descendants forever. With a two state Palestinian solution. That's a big NO NO!

Did some of our founding fathers see "the handwriting on the wall"?

God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever. - Thomas Jefferson

Edited by Dennis1209
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  71
  • Topic Count:  340
  • Topics Per Day:  0.10
  • Content Count:  16,828
  • Content Per Day:  4.76
  • Reputation:   13,544
  • Days Won:  81
  • Joined:  07/24/2014
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/02/2000

On 10/12/2016 at 0:33 AM, RustyAngeL said:

No one knows the date and time for sure.  No one can give a date or time because the word of God says not even the Son knows, only the Father.  But you are right, you must be ready or you will be in a world of hurt.

I second that! Men make dates, but only God's date is sure to be true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...