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The Rapture by Terry James


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By Terry James

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The Rapture – Answering the Critics

This generation is full of scoffers, mocking the prophesied return of Jesus Christ to Planet Earth. This is as the great Apostle Peter foretold it would be at the end of the age of grace (Church Age): “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” (2 Pet. 3:3-4).

God’s prophecies are 100 percent accurate, so it doesn’t surprise in the least that there is the scoffing and mocking today, exactly as one of God’s prophets said there will be as time nears the Lord’s return. Many signals are occurring simultaneously, and with phenomenal frequency and intensity, pointing to where we are on God’s prophetic timeline. Chief among these are all of the geopolitical dynamic intrigues surrounding the nation Israel –God’s prophetic timepiece. The sneering at the thought that there could possibly be a rapture just throws fuel on the fire of the end-of-days deluge –the end that is coming in with a flood of last-days indicators as foretold by Daniel the prophet: “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined” (Dan 9:26).

Daniel was foretelling what would happen from the time the Messiah, Jesus Christ, would die for the sins of mankind until the very end of human history at Armageddon. Great, convulsing, prophesied issues and events would, near the very end of the age, he forecast, gush through the generation alive at the time like a flood.

Daniel’s End-Time Flood

One of those predicted events of the end-time flood is the level of anger that will be against believers who proclaim that one of the most stupendous events of all human history will one day –perhaps very soon—take millions upon millions from the earth’s surface in a fraction of a second.

We receive in our e-mail each week any number of messages declaring that the truth we champion regarding Bible doctrine and prophecies –particularly the pre-trib rapture of the Church-- are everything from ludicrous to heretical. This criticism gets especially intense whenever the raptureready.com website is written or spoken about in a major media outlet. That is to be expected, because there can be no spiritual discernment among those of the lost world. Believers in Jesus Christ can understand, while those who do not belong to God’s family through belief in His only begotten Son cannot understand:

“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Cor. 2:11-14).

Defense of Rapture to Lost and Saved

Trying to explain or defend the rapture to the world of the lost is, therefore, fruitless. There is just no way they can come to understand or believe this doctrine, unless and until they repent, ask for--and accept--God’s grace gift offer of salvation through Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross at Calvary nearly two millennia ago. We can go through the vast body of scriptural text, laying out the Bible facts as we are confident God’s Word presents truth about the rapture. But, unless and until one is capable of spiritual discernment from the Holy Spirit, a person, no matter how intellectually brilliant, can never come to believe those facts. They might even come to understand the facts in a purely cerebral sense, but never truly comprehend them to the point of knowing that the rapture is a cataclysmic event in the future of one particular generation of earth’s inhabitants.

So, our efforts to explain the rapture will meet with quite limited results, seeing as how there is a great spiritual discernment disconnect, when explaining to those who don’t know Christ for salvation. This we accept, thus can move ahead with limited frustration in putting the truth about prophecy and the rapture before these as best we can.

Dealing with the Body of Christ--all born-again believers--is quite another thing, when it comes to our frustration meter. It becomes a bit more disconcerting when our efforts to put out truth about prophecy, and the rapture in particular, is met with the same arguments, no matter how thoroughly and how cogently we organize and present what God’s Word has to tell His children about these matters.

Hard-Shell Rapture Detractors

There are, of course, the die-hard preterists (believing that most all prophecy has been completed or should be spiritualized) and the reform replacement theological enclaves (those who declare God’s promises have been taken from Israel and given to the church). These make their livings throwing mudballs –usually with stones at the centers—at those of us who proclaim the truth that Jesus will come for His Church –all born-again believers—BEFORE the tribulation era –the last seven years of human history that culminates at Armageddon. These, who refuse to see two programs of God’s dealing with mankind, Israel , and the Church --these two dovetailing into one magnificent prophetic culmination-- castigate us who believe that God deals with His creation called man dispensationally (the ages of Adam, Noah, Moses, Abraham, David, the Church, Tribulation, Millennium, etc.). Sometimes, it seems fruitless to try to break through the thick spiritual iron wills of these, in trying to present truth about the rapture. But, these are not the most troubling that seem to fit the 2 Peter 3: 3-4 description, so far as scoffing is concerned. The more concerning, to me, at least, are those who, despite being given, time after time, the same tremendously in-depth explanation from God’s Word about the rapture and the truth that it will be a pre-trib one, continue to come to us with the same arguments to the contrary. This, despite the fact that they visit the Rapture Ready website, and can read more than 15,000 articles on matters of God’s truth, many dealing specifically with eschatology.

These are Christians who just seem to have it in their determination that they must go through –endure—the tribulation, the time about which Jesus foretold the following: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be” (Matt. 24:21).

The Tribulation, if we can imagine, will be worse than the concentration camps, torture chambers, crematoriums of Hitler, or the most terrible days of the inquisitions with all of the devilish methods of torture. Yet, there seems to be a need –they deludedly think—for some Christians to go through that time, during which Antichrist will do his dead-level best to kill every person who refuses to worship him.

Anti-Rapture Example

I’ve chosen one letter from such a Christian. It is a simple and mild letter; no mud-ball throwing. But, it represents the most troubling of all of the critics of the rapture of the Church, in my view. It is most troubling that these types think as they do, because it shows an almost willfulness against accepting God’s promises, summed by this passage: “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ” (1 Thess. 5:9).

Here is what she wrote, in part:

“I know that the Tribulation is going to be extremely bad and even worse than I can imagine but I sincerely believe I along with you and other Christians that are living at the time, will be going thru the bad. I am prepared mentally and will do whatever comes my way to either get thru or stand up and say no when needed. If I am one that is to [be] beheaded then so be it. I know GOD will be holding my hand and whatever comes my way, HE will see me thru. If I can be of any use to GOD to help save people then I am prepared to do as HE wants. I have many family members that are not believers now and pray daily that will change. I do believe that many souls will be saved. I know that I am a sinner and do not like verses of the Bible taken out of context. The whole book or at least the chapter needs to [be] read and understood not just a verse here and now to prove a theory that did not even come into being until a couple of hundred years ago. How is every eye going to see JESUS return if HE comes back in secret. Just don't believe any are going to be "raptured away". The Bible states that HEAVEN will be coming down here not us going up there.”

Tragic Misconceptions Unscriptural

The Christian sister makes a number of statements of misconception that are dealt with through hundreds of the thousands of articles on the RR website. This is my problem. Many criticisms of us who hold to the pre-trib rapture are issued forth by those who obviously have never mined the rich resources available to them, before making their criticisms/argumentations.

She writes that she is sure that she will be going through the tribulation, in order to stand for Christ and help God save people out of that horrendous time. She charges that she has disdain for those who twist Scripture out of context, with those (like us, I presume) using scattered and sporadic Scripture passages to make our points.

She, at the same time, provides no Scripture for any of her criticisms of the rapture “theory,” as she puts it. However, most who make this charge do so, using Scripture from Revelation that they declare shows saints in the middle of that time of Tribulation. Thus, they conclude, the Church is right there, taking the brunt of Antichrist’s rage and God’s wrath.

Dispensational Discernment Required

Indeed, believers will populate that era by the millions. It will, many who study that period believe, be a time of the greatest coming to Christ in the history of man. What the writer of this letter–and others—fail to recognize, or even consider, is that God deals with man, including His children, in dispensations. There are saints of the Church Age at present, and there will be saints during the tribulation. Neither will be together in the same dispensation.

Jesus told us that He would build His church upon the gospel message the apostle Peter had just given, telling Jesus that he believed Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God: “And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:17-18).

Do you see that? The gates of hell –Satan—will not prevail against the Church. That’s all about the Church Age saints.

The Revelation tells quite another story for God’s saints. The following Scripture is speaking, of course, about Satan’s great tyrant, Antichrist, during the Tribulation era: “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations” (Rev. 13:7). The Church will not be “overcome” by Satan, because it won’t be here. The tribulation saints (those who accept Christ after the rapture) will be overcome to a large extent –lose their physical lives for the cause of Christ.

Myth-Making Against Rapture

Our Christian critic-friend proves that she has at least done some study, but not from God’s Word. She has read the books and literature of those who incessantly and speciously claim that we who believe in the pre-trib rapture have learned our “false” doctrine from a 19th-century witch, who somehow influenced John Darby to later perpetrate the hated rapture theory.

The most ludicrous of the criticisms is that we base our view that there will be a rapture upon Margaret MacDonald’s vision in the 1800s. It makes me almost nauseous to have to even address this –for the thousandth time, when, if the critics would just read what is already written on the subject on the site, it should quell their proclivity to make such ridiculous claims. But, I will briefly answer again, those who are so intellectually and spiritually lazy.

The rapture, the "catching up" (harpazo) was revealed by Paul the apostle. It is a mystery he gave us through Holy Spirit inspiration, as recorded in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and 1 Thessalonians 4: 13-18. The Rapture was not the concoction of John Darby, who picked up this teaching, and gave it improved order of presentation centuries after the doctrine was believed and taught by the early church fathers (first two centuries AD).

The rapture isn't built on one or two verses, but on the entire body of Scripture. When viewed in totality, and in context, the doctrine flows with prophetic signals we observe occurring in the world today--i.e., the world isn’t getting better and better as the "kingdom-now" people believe (that the Church will make the world better until Christ can return to set up His throne). The pre-trib rapture view puts forward that the world will grow worse and worse. The Church will be removed from earth, then God’s judgment will begin to fall on rebellious earth-dwellers.

Which do we see happening today? The world getting better and better –or- are things looking worse and worse for Planet Earth? Read the daily headlines, or watch the hourly news, and you will have your answer.

Two Phases of Second Coming

Again, Paul shows us the mystery --i.e., he reveals the mystery of the rapture in 1 Corinthians 15: 51-55. The mystery he is expanding upon is the wonderful promise Jesus made as shown in John 14: 1-3. Jesus is coming for us --before God's wrath must fall.

A foreshadowing of that principle is seen in Genesis, chapter 19, when God said that He could do nothing in the way of sending judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot was first removed. Lot represented the only righteousness God recognized. It was Lot 's faith --as puny as it was-- that kept him and the other few believers of his family from the time of God's wrath--again, Revelation 3:10.

Our critic asks how all eyes can see Christ return, if He comes secretly in some rapture. She declares she just doesn’t believe anyone is going to be raptured away, and she states Christ will be coming down to earth, not Christians going up to Him. Again, she, and those who fill her head with anti-rapture rhetoric fail to, or willfully refuse to, see God’s dispensations in dealing with man. In the case of the return of Christ, Scripture makes it clear there are two separate returns. These are at least seven years apart, one from the other.

Jesus will return at some unknown time in the rapture. Jesus, himself, likens that coming to a thief-in-the-night experience for those on earth. They won’t know what has happened, and certainly won’t see Christ. Paul says it is a moment in time when all believers (the Church) will meet Jesus in the air: “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thess. 4:16-17).

Jesus will come the second time, following at least seven earth years, at the close of the tribulation era, known also as “Daniel’s seventieth week.” This time He will come all the way to the planet, and every eye will behold Him. There will be absolutely no doubt about this re-entry and landing: “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God” (Rev. 19:11-15).

Scriptural Proof Required

As stated before, each of these things intended to deny the validity and credence of pre-trib rapture are dealt with at great length, and in tremendous depth throughout the RR website. All opposing views are carefully dissected, and with Scripture given at every point along the way in addressing any and every question. But, it DOES take determined research to seek out truth found in the articles –truth that is God’s Word, not merely ours.

And, here is the main crux of this dear lady’s problem in not discerning truth about Christ’s coming for the Church –for her. She presents not one Scripture to back up any of her assertions, declarations, or suppositions/postulations. She simply parrots things critical of the rapture doctrine she has read or heard from those who mock, without anything of spiritual substance to back her/their criticisms.

My intention is not to pick on her. I want only to used her method of criticism –a method used in almost every instance by those who listen to the anti-rapture crowd-- as an example to show there is no foundation to her/their argument/denial that the rapture is a doctrine taught in God’s Word. This is our answer to such critics. Study the Word of God. Make your criticisms from His Word –as the dear woman says—not from just a Scripture here or there, but from the whole context of the matter, whatever the matter happens to be.

I have studied most all of the positions and variations thereof involved in these arguments for decades --which gives away my age, I guess. The pre-trib view of prophecy yet future is absolutely the only one that makes sense in the totality of scriptural context, and in terms of what we see unfolding today in things of geopolitics, global socio-economics, and religion.

Salvation – Rapture Inseparable

The Rapture is an issue incontrovertibly linked to salvation --something Jesus did on the cross, which puts us in God's family when we truly believe. That faith keeps us from the time of God's wrath --both in the coming tribulation, and in eternity. Wrath and judgment must fall upon rebellious mankind, because of sin. Jesus paid the price for that sin. He said on the cross "It is finished." Sin was forever paid for at that moment, for those who would accept his sacrifice --the only sacrifice that God will accept --the precious blood of His Blessed Son.

We are told we as Christians, while in the flesh, will have tribulations (troubles). Certainly Christians have had troubles down through the years. Persecutions --genocide, martyrdom, etc. These horrors are still happening in some places around the world. But, this was not, and is not, God's wrath and judgment, but was, and is, satanic rage against God's people. The tribulation will include satanic rage, but it will be within the horrific storm of God's wrath and judgment.

Christians (those who have been --as our critic says-- saved following the rapture-- will certainly suffer satanic rage, but not God's wrath. Many will be martyred, as in the times of the early persecutions --like Christians are being martyred in some nations today. But, we are told that we (Paul denotes the difference between Christians of the Church Age and those who aren't in God's family by the use of pronouns) we aren't appointed to wrath, but to salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. We are told by Paul to "comfort one another with these words"--not look to fear, but to comfort (read 1 Thess. 4:18, and 5:9-11). We will be kept out of "the time of testing (the apocalypse or tribulation), John was told by Jesus (Rev. 3:10).

Rapture Ready or Not…

Now, you might not agree, and that's fine. If you know Christ you are going instantly to Him anyway, when Jesus says "Come up hither," as He did to John in Revelation 4:1-2. You will have no other choice, if you are in God's family. But, please don't ever think --or claim--that there is only scattered verses here and there, or that there is no tremendously deep body of scriptural evidence and proofs beneath the truth of the pre-trib rapture.

Again, you can disagree, but, please don't accuse us of not knowing about the other views, and, don't just blindly accept what opponents falsely say when they lie, proclaiming that we just believe in something a 19th-century Englishman said, or that we follow some woman who dabbled in the occult. That isn't true, and you should look more deeply into the evidence upon which we base these understandings, than just to take the word of those who make such shallow and deceptive accusations.

Put this Scripture in a place you can memorize it –and make it your model truth for avoiding the pitfalls of intellectual and scriptural laziness: “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15).

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Excellent post, thank you.

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Why present some woman who wrote a letter that provided no scriptural backing for her claim? I read through this whole piece expecting to see something worthwhile but found nothing but a bunch of words that prove nothing yet assert that we shouldn't doubt what they say because they have all the evidence, which of course was not provided.

They brought up Lot. Great. Lot was taken out of Sodom to another place still here on earth where he and his were protected from that which was going on upon the earth. Doesn't support rapture in the least. They could have brought up Noah who was at least raised up above it all while it happened, except he was, well, still left upon the earth but merely protected by the ark which he was inside with his family. Of course this picture represents God protecting those who are truly his through the wrath while they are still here upon the earth, not raptured away. Those who have put on Christ and walk in him as he is our ark.

Enoch would have been a good place to start for rapture support. At least he was taken from the earth. The problem with using him is that he had the testimony that he pleased God and therefore God took him. Our present day church doesn't fit this criteria. Most who believe in a pretrib rapture believe that their works do not matter when it comes to pleasing God. This error causes them to continue on in sin banking that Jesus has paid it all and what they do will only be burnt up and forgotten by God. OK. You can believe that if you want but you might be surprised come judgement day and everyone is receiving for that which they have done in the body whether good or bad.

Maybe we should look at Elijah. He was taken up and therefore was a type of the rapture, right? I would agree. He was. But, that said, before his being taken he had gone through a period of time where he was calling the people of God to return to their God. As part of his ministry he prayed that God would with hold the rain and he did for 3 1/2 years. Which is the equivalent of what some believe the tribulation period will be since those days have been shortened. Once again, no pretrib here. More like post trib rapture.

What's left? Where can we find all this pretrib rapture evidence? My own church believes in pretrib. I plan to be here to help them adapt to the times of the tribulation when it comes. Their misunderstanding comes from the fact that they believe that you can't actually be like Christ in this life and are always proved right as they continually fail in their walk with him, much of it deliberately. But as God has stated in his word, being a hear of the word only and not a doer causes you to deceive yourself. Imagine the surprise of those disobedient Christians when other peoples, maybe Islamic ones, come and take them captive and make them slaves, like what happened to disobedient and gainsaying Israel. They will be sorry they spent all their time on video games, professional sports, golf and television entertainment, instead of doing the work that God told them to do. Their captures will not be so nice as to worry about their comfort. But not all will go into captivity, some will just be killed. Those that live by the sword rather than keep in line with Jesus sermon on the Mount will die with their guns in their hands laying next to their car with the bumper sticker that says "you will only take my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers".

What is coming in the near future is not expected by those who are going to experience it. They are not worried about doing spiritual battle with the heathen in the land because they believe Christ is going to whisk them all away before punishing the heathen. Why bother fighting a losing battle? The truth is quite the opposite. The church of Philadelphia was told that because the kept the word of his patience he would keep them from the tribulation. Once again they had the testimony that they pleased God with their works. He didn't say I will whisk you away to heaven, but I will keep you. Keep as in preserve through like he did Noah.

How can this be? I thought the pretribulation rapture was supported all through scripture. Is there any evidence of the post trib rapture found in scripture. God keeping his own free from harm because they are not appointed to wrath while keeping them in the trial? How about Daniel in the Lions den? How about the three in the fiery furnace who came out without a scratch nor even the smell of smoke upon them? Noah in the ark? Israel crossing the sea? Gideon and the 300 with their lamps? Jesus being removed from Israel while Herod killed all the babies? How about Paul who was in the tempest aboard the ship who gave command that the others could only be saved if they stayed in the boat? That one is very interesting as God kept the righteous through the trial. Elijah was led away and fed by birds and angels while the rest of the world suffered hunger. Of course he went to the widow woman and the meal didn't waste though the land was in distress. God sustained the Israelites in the wilderness not taking them out of it. Jesus prayed to the Father that we be not taken out of the world but be kept from the evil.

God is the master of keeping his, those who trust in him, safe from harm though sometimes he allows them to be afflicted as Job was. In the end, God said that though he send tribulation upon the land though Noah, Daniel or Job be in it they shall deliver themselves by their own righteousness. God is the master protector. He moves people where he wants them, when he wants them despite what they want to do. He caused Paul to be taken from Jerusalem, where Paul wanted to be, to Rome where Jesus said he would testify of him. He is going to make all of his enemies assemble in the valley so that he can destroy them. He works all things to the counsel of his own will. Period.

My suggestion is that if you fear God (and most don't because of false doctrine that keeps them secure though they continue to sin) then you will enter the ark by putting on the new man which is created in the image of him who created him and walk in the spirit of God so that when it all goes down you will be safe and secure though the world collapse all around you. So that you will still be alive and remain when Jesus comes and you can meet him in the air upon his arrival. If you happen to be like Noah and are a preacher of righteousness then you can expect that God will bring the beast of the field to you for protection through the calamity. Those being the ones he wishes to populate his kingdom that he will subdue with the power of his word. If your like Daniel then you will be innocent of all charges ever brought against you and God will send his angel to shut the mouth of the Lion though you be a nice treat. If your like Job then you will suffer greatly because you understood that you were righteous but did not give God the proper credit and justified yourself rather than God and in the end were exalted by God though you had to suffer.

The bible is full of the truth but God people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because they refuse knowledge. They don't believe the work he is going to work in their day though a man declare it unto them. Don't be one of the unfortunate who are found lacking that believe they are have the imputed righteousness of Christ though they have forsaken the sanctification of the spirit in favor of a pleasurable lifestyle. Whose garden is choked out by the weeds/cares of this world and deceitfulness of riches. Submit unto God. Present your body as a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God that he may walk in you and preform his work of reconciliation to the world around you and you will be handsomely rewarded for you faith. To be carnally minded is death in more ways than one. Though it leads to spiritual death it can also lead to physical death during times of tribulation. Just ask the Israelites who came before you. Better to be a prophet for God and not accept deliverance so that you can have a better resurrection.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

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An aside about the rapture we all know and love...

When the 70th Week of Daniel is properly understood as a 7 year period of two 3 1/2 year tribulations (not one 7 year tribulation) all three eschatology camps agree.

Revelation 13:5-10 (echoing Revelation 12:17) indicate the devil persecutes the saints (the Church) and overcomes them (us) for 3 1/2 years. And 666 since one can only scratch without the mark of the beast is a tracking system to hunt down the one people on earth unwilling to receive the mark (Christians). According to Daniel 12:11 there will be Jewish Temple sacrifices up to 1290 days from the end of time (just over 3 1/2 years from the end). Daniel 9:27 says the beast will affirm the covenant... all other mentions in Daniel refer to the holy covenant / mosaic covenant and apparently the beast will plow with the Lord's Jewish heifer from the beginning of the 70th Week to renege on that covenant in the middle of the week... when he puts an end to temple sacrifice Daniel 12:11. Daniel 12:12 indicates that 1335 days into the 70th week (just over 3 1/2 years) will be the reward for patience...

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience,

I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,

which shall come upon all the world,

to try them that dwell upon the earth.

So the rapture will occur:

PRE great tribulation

MID 70th week of Daniel

POST believer's tribulation

This is not traditional mid trib because mid trib also teaches one 7 year tribulation period.

Furthermore, the few Christians who survive 1335 days into that fierce a tribulation with modern technology to help hunt them by surveillance cameras on every dumpster etc... and they will be so deep in hiding that their sudden disappearance will go virtually unnoticed...

IMHO the beast will already be convinced that the last Christian was exterminated before the rapture actually occurs which prompts him to renege on the Jews turning them into the refuse-niks the Christians had been for 3 1/2 years..

The latter tribulation... the great tribulation...

Jeremiah 30:7 (KJV)

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

is to get the few Jews who survive to the end when the world's armies are closing in on them to cry out to Jesus. The great tribulation is what it will take to get them as a last resort (sadly) since nothing else has worked to cry out to Jesus for salvation. HOSANNA HOSHA NAH (Save now).

This is what the Great tribulation is for.

Think about it. What other purpose would serve God to allow the Great Tribulation for people most of whom are going to hell anyway?

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In a nutshell, The rapture is a distinct event in itself and takes place at least seven years before the second coming of christ. The rapture takes place before the tribulation, and the second coming after the tribulation. The rapture is the time when Christ comes FOR the saints (1 Thess. 4:13-17), and the second coming is when He comes back to the Earth WITH them (Zech. 14:1-5; Jude 14; Rev. 19:11-21). At the rapture, Christ takes the saints to heaven (1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16; Col. 3:4), and at the second coming He Leaves Heaven with them (Rev. 19 11-21). At the rapture Christ does not come to Earth (1 thess.4:16) but at the second coming He does (Zech.14:14; Matt. 24:29-31). Since Christ does not come to earth at the rapture, it cannot be called the second coming of Christ.

The rapture must and does take place before the fulfilment of Rev. 4-22, which describes the tribulation period and the Millennium and the New Earth after the Millennium. According to 2 Thess. 2:7-8 it is stated that "the Hinderer of lawlessness will be taken out of the way," "And Then shall the wicked be revealed" and since the wicked is here for the last seven years of this age, according to Dan. 9:27, the hinderer must be removed before the Antichrist comes and before the tribulation that he will cause when he comes. The hinderer refered to in 2 thess 2:7-8 is the church, and also that the Antichrist cannot possibly be revealed until after the church us taken out of the way. Now comes the question of whether the Antichrist will be revealed at the beginning or at the middle of the Week, then it can also be proved that the church is raptured before the beginning and not the middle of the Week as the manchild. In Dan. 9:27 we have one indisputable argument that he is revealed at the beginning of the Week, for he makes a covenant for seven years with Israel and not for three and one half years. The breaking of the covenant in the middle of the Week is not a revelation of him on the scene of action, but an unfolding of what he is to do in the middle of the Week, three and one half years after his revelation. This passage gives one of the scriptural marks by which we may know who the Antichrist is and when he is to be revealed. If the church is raptured in the middle of the Week there would be a definite time set for the rapture and we should quit looking for the rapture at any other time and look for the events which mark the appearance of the seventieth Week. But if the Church goes through the terrible events of the seals and trumpets, then the promise of Jesus that true believers shall "escape all these things" is contradicted and Paul's teaching that the church is caught up before the revelation of the Antichrist is also contradicted, for the Antichrist is here three and one half years before the middle of the Week. Therefore, once we understand that the church can be raptured any day and that there is no definite time set for that event, then we can conscientiously teach others that they should be ready for the rapture at any and all times. In Thess. 5:1-11 we have another definite promise assuring us that the saints will escape the wrath which precedes the day of the Lord. "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation [deliverance from this wrath] by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him." The second advent marks the beginning of the day of the Lord. This wrath is revealed in Matt. 24-25; luke 21; Rev. 6:1-19:21 and is to be fulfilled during the Seventieth Week. If the saints escape this wrath, the church must be raptured before the Week or in Rev. 4:1. Prophetical date Setting (Matt. 24:36-25:46) It is definitely stated and illustrated in these verses that no man will know the day or the hour of the second coming of Christ to the Earth. All we may know is "the times and seasons" which prove the nearness of the second advent (1 Thess. 5:1-9). To keep His disciples from speculating as to the day and hour of His coming, Christ gives a comparison showing a similarity between the days of Noah and the days just before His coming and states that men before the flood "knew not untill the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" (Matt. 24:37-39; 1 Thess. 5:1-3; Jude 14.

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Why present some woman who wrote a letter that provided no scriptural backing for her claim? I read through this whole piece expecting to see something worthwhile but found nothing but a bunch of words that prove nothing yet assert that we shouldn't doubt what they say because they have all the evidence, which of course was not provided.

They brought up Lot. Great. Lot was taken out of Sodom to another place still here on earth where he and his were protected from that which was going on upon the earth. Doesn't support rapture in the least. They could have brought up Noah who was at least raised up above it all while it happened, except he was, well, still left upon the earth but merely protected by the ark which he was inside with his family. Of course this picture represents God protecting those who are truly his through the wrath while they are still here upon the earth, not raptured away. Those who have put on Christ and walk in him as he is our ark.

Enoch would have been a good place to start for rapture support. At least he was taken from the earth. The problem with using him is that he had the testimony that he pleased God and therefore God took him. Our present day church doesn't fit this criteria. Most who believe in a pretrib rapture believe that their works do not matter when it comes to pleasing God. This error causes them to continue on in sin banking that Jesus has paid it all and what they do will only be burnt up and forgotten by God. OK. You can believe that if you want but you might be surprised come judgement day and everyone is receiving for that which they have done in the body whether good or bad.

Maybe we should look at Elijah. He was taken up and therefore was a type of the rapture, right? I would agree. He was. But, that said, before his being taken he had gone through a period of time where he was calling the people of God to return to their God. As part of his ministry he prayed that God would with hold the rain and he did for 3 1/2 years. Which is the equivalent of what some believe the tribulation period will be since those days have been shortened. Once again, no pretrib here. More like post trib rapture.

What's left? Where can we find all this pretrib rapture evidence? My own church believes in pretrib. I plan to be here to help them adapt to the times of the tribulation when it comes. Their misunderstanding comes from the fact that they believe that you can't actually be like Christ in this life and are always proved right as they continually fail in their walk with him, much of it deliberately. But as God has stated in his word, being a hear of the word only and not a doer causes you to deceive yourself. Imagine the surprise of those disobedient Christians when other peoples, maybe Islamic ones, come and take them captive and make them slaves, like what happened to disobedient and gainsaying Israel. They will be sorry they spent all their time on video games, professional sports, golf and television entertainment, instead of doing the work that God told them to do. Their captures will not be so nice as to worry about their comfort. But not all will go into captivity, some will just be killed. Those that live by the sword rather than keep in line with Jesus sermon on the Mount will die with their guns in their hands laying next to their car with the bumper sticker that says "you will only take my gun when you pry it from my cold dead fingers".

What is coming in the near future is not expected by those who are going to experience it. They are not worried about doing spiritual battle with the heathen in the land because they believe Christ is going to whisk them all away before punishing the heathen. Why bother fighting a losing battle? The truth is quite the opposite. The church of Philadelphia was told that because the kept the word of his patience he would keep them from the tribulation. Once again they had the testimony that they pleased God with their works. He didn't say I will whisk you away to heaven, but I will keep you. Keep as in preserve through like he did Noah.

How can this be? I thought the pretribulation rapture was supported all through scripture. Is there any evidence of the post trib rapture found in scripture. God keeping his own free from harm because they are not appointed to wrath while keeping them in the trial? How about Daniel in the Lions den? How about the three in the fiery furnace who came out without a scratch nor even the smell of smoke upon them? Noah in the ark? Israel crossing the sea? Gideon and the 300 with their lamps? Jesus being removed from Israel while Herod killed all the babies? How about Paul who was in the tempest aboard the ship who gave command that the others could only be saved if they stayed in the boat? That one is very interesting as God kept the righteous through the trial. Elijah was led away and fed by birds and angels while the rest of the world suffered hunger. Of course he went to the widow woman and the meal didn't waste though the land was in distress. God sustained the Israelites in the wilderness not taking them out of it. Jesus prayed to the Father that we be not taken out of the world but be kept from the evil.

God is the master of keeping his, those who trust in him, safe from harm though sometimes he allows them to be afflicted as Job was. In the end, God said that though he send tribulation upon the land though Noah, Daniel or Job be in it they shall deliver themselves by their own righteousness. God is the master protector. He moves people where he wants them, when he wants them despite what they want to do. He caused Paul to be taken from Jerusalem, where Paul wanted to be, to Rome where Jesus said he would testify of him. He is going to make all of his enemies assemble in the valley so that he can destroy them. He works all things to the counsel of his own will. Period.

My suggestion is that if you fear God (and most don't because of false doctrine that keeps them secure though they continue to sin) then you will enter the ark by putting on the new man which is created in the image of him who created him and walk in the spirit of God so that when it all goes down you will be safe and secure though the world collapse all around you. So that you will still be alive and remain when Jesus comes and you can meet him in the air upon his arrival. If you happen to be like Noah and are a preacher of righteousness then you can expect that God will bring the beast of the field to you for protection through the calamity. Those being the ones he wishes to populate his kingdom that he will subdue with the power of his word. If your like Daniel then you will be innocent of all charges ever brought against you and God will send his angel to shut the mouth of the Lion though you be a nice treat. If your like Job then you will suffer greatly because you understood that you were righteous but did not give God the proper credit and justified yourself rather than God and in the end were exalted by God though you had to suffer.

The bible is full of the truth but God people are destroyed for lack of knowledge because they refuse knowledge. They don't believe the work he is going to work in their day though a man declare it unto them. Don't be one of the unfortunate who are found lacking that believe they are have the imputed righteousness of Christ though they have forsaken the sanctification of the spirit in favor of a pleasurable lifestyle. Whose garden is choked out by the weeds/cares of this world and deceitfulness of riches. Submit unto God. Present your body as a living sacrifice holy acceptable unto God that he may walk in you and preform his work of reconciliation to the world around you and you will be handsomely rewarded for you faith. To be carnally minded is death in more ways than one. Though it leads to spiritual death it can also lead to physical death during times of tribulation. Just ask the Israelites who came before you. Better to be a prophet for God and not accept deliverance so that you can have a better resurrection.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

Very well done Gary, a great response to a very misinformed person.
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Inter--

Excellent points. All of them.

As for me, I think I'll be pulling my wagons in a circle on "worthy". I've been convicted and led by the Spirit to spend more time in prayer and serving the kingdom by interacting with living people within my sphere of influence, than debating topics that have been beaten to death here, and elsewhere.

So with this, I bid thee all a fond farewell! :kiss2:

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Here's something very simple that appears to be iron clad. Is there a difference between Salvation now in the Age of Grace as compared with the Tribulation Period? Yes there is! Those saved in the Tribulation Period must endure to the end and not take the mark of the beast - even while being tortured or killed. Don't forget about what Salvation means in this Age of Grace which will end soon. Enduring torture and death is not required for Salvation in the Age of Grace. Put two and two together and see if you get four.

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 NASB 20 For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, 22 who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

This portion of Scripture addresses NOW in this age of Grace. Tell me what combination of powers can break the seal of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God Himself lives in our hearts. The beast, devil, or any other entity has no power over the Holy Spirit of God - DO THE MATH - TWO PLUS TWO. This is without getting into who is the Great Restrainer that must be removed first before the devil can have his way? - Answer - Holy Spirit. Yes, the Rapure is Pre-Tribulation, and YES - the Rapture is directly tied to Salvation. I won't be debating this, so this will be my last post in this thread. I'll simply tell you that my heart is sealed with the Holy Spirit of God and He lives in my heart. I won't be here to worry about the mark of the beast and neither will the Church which is the Body of Christ. Finally, the Tribulation Period was determined against Israel - NOT the Church which is the Body of Christ. Daniel knew nothing about the Church which is the Body of Christ because this CHURCH was still a mystery.

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nChrist wrote in part: Finally, the Tribulation Period was determined against Israel - NOT the Church which is the Body of Christ

Correct. Now, if we can just put that statement into the proper timeline. WHEN did Israel get its hind-end whipped? AD 66-70. Three and a half years. The survivors were dispersed (The Diaspora).

That put an end to the age of types and shadows and ushered in the reality of Messiah. (See Hebrews). The Time of Jacob's trouble was not for the righteous members of Israel, but the WICKED of Israel. Those who rejected Messiah. The leaders who led them astray. The men who handed Jesus over to the Romans; the people who whipped up the crowd to say "His blood be upon US and upon our children!" Those who were the ones who were guilty of the blood of the prophets from Abel to Zechariah.

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Those who don't understand that there was a tribulation period for Israel then and a completely separate event looming on the horizon for the disobedient church miss a lot of understanding of scripture as well as the nature of God. The warning has gone out. The church has been told to repent. Many seem to be blind to this though. The first four seals will be massively horrible for most of the church. What book is it that has these seals upon it that must be opened that would cause John to weep because no one was found worthy?

As I try to understand what is being said in the opening of this terrible period of time, there appears to be coming one who will begin the whole process by going out and overcoming with a great victory as well as a huge uprising within the church where men turn on each other and betray one another as Judas did our Lord. This followed by or accompanied by, I cannot tell which, many of the church who are disobedient to the word of God being taken captive and made slaves by others while the anointed spirit filled believers are kept safe. In the whole of the uproar we loose 25% of the body of Christ to the cleansing/purifying work of the Lord.

The fifth seal looks back upon the first four and those who were slain therein who are hid under the altar. Along with the revelation of them who will also be killed yet future as they were. Then, we get to the sixth seal and the realization that the great day of Gods wrath is come and Gods wrath is ready to be poured out upon those who dwell upon the earth. The final rearranging of the powers of heaven happen with Satan being cast down to earth with his angels. So that the wrath of God can be poured out on him rightfully.

Then the seventh seal. The final outpouring of Gods wrath. But through all of this God promises that if Noah, Daniel or Job be in it, they shall deliver their own selves by their own righteousness. Time to get right and stay right with God.

I say these things to you now so that you will understand when they begin to happen all around you. Peter warned us not to be amazed at the fiery trial which is to try us as if some strange thing had happened. He also warned that it was time that judgment begin at the house of God and that the righteous scarcely be saved. Awake to righteousness and sin not. Prepare ye the way of the Lord.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

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