The Rapture by Terry James

[ENOCH2010]

5 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Really?  Then why do we read this in Scripture?

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Because he was being a good angel and doing what the Lord told him to do

[HAZARD]

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

Edited July 14, 2016 by HAZARD

[seeking the lost]

5 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Could it be that the Holy Spirit will at the appointed time stop hindering?  To be taken out of the world would mean that He the Holy Spirit is no longer omnipresent.  This is one of the first things that we should learn about God.  There is no place where He is not.  Consider these words from the Old Testament.  Psalms 139:5-12

5 Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid Thine hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.

7 Whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from Thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, Thou art there.

9 If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea,

10 even there shall Thy hand lead me, and Thy right hand shall hold me.

11 If I say, “Surely the darkness shall cover me,” even the night shall be light about me.

12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from Thee, but the night shineth as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to Thee.

[Just a Mirror]

Greetings all!!

While I find this Rapture talk quite meaningless because it causes strife between believers I shall ask you a few questions that you may choose to ponder.

1- Who are "all nations tribes and tongues?"

2- When are they gathered around the throne?

3- Where did they come from?

4- When is the second coming in the tribulation period?

5- Finally define Wrath in the sentence "Destined for wrath". Is it talking about Gods divine wrath at the second coming or is it talking about the Beasts wrath in the tribulation period?

I"ll add just this, Lot was saved from Gods judgement, Noah was saved from Gods judgement, they Lived in a time and place that was not joyful, God did not deliver them out of the evildoers hands, He delivered them from His judgement.

Think carefully about what men have handed you, for we have one Teacher, and He is not a man.

Peace to you my friends.

 

 

[HAZARD]

3 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

Greetings all!!

While I find this Rapture talk quite meaningless because it causes strife between believers I shall ask you a few questions that you may choose to ponder.

1- Who are "all nations tribes and tongues?"

2- When are they gathered around the throne?

3- Where did they come from?

4- When is the second coming in the tribulation period?

5- Finally define Wrath in the sentence "Destined for wrath". Is it talking about Gods divine wrath at the second coming or is it talking about the Beasts wrath in the tribulation period?

I"ll add just this, Lot was saved from Gods judgement, Noah was saved from Gods judgement, they Lived in a time and place that was not joyful, God did not deliver them out of the evildoers hands, He delivered them from His judgement.

Think carefully about what men have handed you, for we have one Teacher, and He is not a man.

Peace to you my friends.

 

 

Grab a Bible, read this while checking all the Scriptures provided and see how you go answering your questions. Its not meaningless because its an important part of God's plan for mankind.

The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.

The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.

At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.

At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

The bible clearly states that the hinderer of lawlessness must be removed before the Antichrist is revealed,  2 Thess. 2:7-8, For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. V. 8, And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

There are only there things in the world today that hinder lawlessness. They are the church, the Holy Spirit and human governments. The hinderer that will be taken out of the world must refer to one of these three things. It could not refer to the Holy Spirit and governments for neither will be taken out of the world. It is clear that governments will not be taken for the Antichrist will reign over the ten kingdoms during the tribulation (Dan. 7:23-24; Rev. 17:8-17). The Holy Spirit will be here during the tribulation, so He could not be the hinderer taken (Acts. 2:16-21; John 14:16; Rev. 7:14; 12:17; 19:10; Zech. 12:10).

The Church will be taken out of the world,  (1 Thess. 4:16; Eph. 5:26-27; 1 Cor. 15:51-58), so this must be the hinderer referred to

If you cannot understand how the church could be referred to as "he," see Eph. 2:15; 4:13 where the church is called a "man."

The purpose of the rapture is to resurrect the just from the dead and take all the saints out of the world before the tribulation comes, in order that they may have fulfilled in them the purpose for which God has saved them. Jesus told the disciples that some would escape the terrible things that were to transpire on the Earth in the last days. He said, “Pray that you may be accounted worth to escape all these things of, Matt. 24, 25; Luke 21:1-19, 25-28, that shall come to pass, and stand before the Son of man,” Luke 21:34-36. These two passages in Luke 21:34-36 and John 14:1-3, are the only ones in the Gospels that are clear concerning the Rapture. Jesus did not reveal this, it was revealed by Paul many years later in 1 Cor. 15:51. The disciples did not have the slightest idea as to how they were to escape, unless they thought that Christ would deliver them from these things through His power. The how was not revealed or even mentioned before Paul explained how they were to escape.
The Rapture of the church should never be confused with the second coming or second advent of Christ, for He does not come to the earth at that time.
The Rapture is a distinct coming in itself, not to the Earth, but in the air where Christ meets the saints and then takes them back to Heaven to present them blameless before God the Father, John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:16, 17.
The Rapture takes place several years before the literal advent of Christ to the Earth, for they, the saints come back with Him at that time. The saints are in Heaven before God, and not in the air, from the time of the Rapture to their coming again with Christ to reign as kings and priests, Jude 14; Rev. 19:14; Zech. 14:5.
At the Rapture, the Lord comes from Heaven as far as the air, or Earthly Heavens and the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
At the second coming, the saints are not raptured, and neither is Christ, but both will come back to the Earth together. The rapture takes place before the Tribulation, whereas the second Advent takes place after the Tribulation. The Rapture could occur at any time, whereas the second Advent cannot occur until after the tribulation.

[Guest Robert]

3 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

Greetings all!!

While I find this Rapture talk quite meaningless because it causes strife between believers I shall ask you a few questions that you may choose to ponder.

1- Who are "all nations tribes and tongues?"

2- When are they gathered around the throne?

3- Where did they come from?

4- When is the second coming in the tribulation period?

5- Finally define Wrath in the sentence "Destined for wrath". Is it talking about Gods divine wrath at the second coming or is it talking about the Beasts wrath in the tribulation period?

I"ll add just this, Lot was saved from Gods judgement, Noah was saved from Gods judgement, they Lived in a time and place that was not joyful, God did not deliver them out of the evildoers hands, He delivered them from His judgement.

Think carefully about what men have handed you, for we have one Teacher, and He is not a man.

Peace to you my friends.

 

 

1) I think that one is self-explanatory: all over the world-

"Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from? I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."(Revelation 7:13-14, NASB)

Doesn't necessarily mean they were raptured, as there were those who had been under the altar until they were "avenged" by the throwing of the censer to Earth.

2) During the interlude between the Seal and Trumpet Judgments; once again, it does not mean that they were raptured at that point.

3) As mentioned previously: from every nation, tribe and tongue

4) Scripture is pretty clear on that: at the end of the Tribulation (Rev. 19)

5A) Let's put the phrase "destined for wrath" in context; we find it in 1 Thessalonians 5:

" Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing. " (1 Thessalonians 5:1-11, NASB, emphasis mine)

So yes, it is referring to the Lord's wrath. But that leads into my second point:

5B) The ENTIRE Tribulation period is God's wrath, and scripture clearly states this:

"I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; 13and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Revelation 6:14-17, NASB, emphasis mine)

Scripture makes it absolutely clear early on in the Seal Judgments that the entire time of the Tribulation is God's wrath, not Satan's or anyone else's. So yes: we are delivered from God's judgment in the Tribulation. But as the letter to the Church at Philadelphia and the above passage indicate, we are not appointed for any of the Tribulation:

" ‘I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut, because you have a little power, and have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you. Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ " (Revelation 3:8-13, NASB, emphasis mine)

The Rapture is a known fact in scripture; many say the word "rapture" is not in scripture, and that is correct for the English translations. But the word for the term "caught up" used in scripture was originally written as harpazó in the Koine Greek. When scripture was translated into Latin, the word for "caught up" was rapturo, where we get the word "rapture" from. But whether the term is harpazo, rapturo, rapture  or "caught up", it means the same thing: "to snatch away". And that is exactly what the Lord does when He comes for His church, semantics notwithstanding.

On another note: the word used in the passage "I also will keep you from the hour of testing," in the letter to the Church at Philadelphia in Revelation 3 is téreó,  which means " I keep, guard, observe, watch over". In reading Revelation 6 and seeing the Seal Judgments unleashed, we see that believers are NOT protected during the first half of the Tribulation, as they are martyred. And as of Revelation 13, scripture states clearly that the Beast would "overcome" the saints on Earth.

That being said, if God would not protect faithful believers (they were before the throne in Rev 7) during the Tribulation, how would He protect those that this promise had been made to? And if the "hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world" was to be during John's time, what record was there of such an "hour of testing"? Keep in mind Jesus mentioned that the Tribulation was a time unlike any other:

" “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance. So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.""  (Matthew 24:15-27, NASB, emphasis mine)

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Lord was speaking concerning the current dispensation at that point, which was the under Law: the offer of the Kingdom was being made to Israel, but they had to decide to accept it or reject it. Had Jesus spoken of a Rapture and the Church in depth at this point, it would not have been a bona fide offer to Israel; Israel ended up rejecting the offer, and God went with the next step in His plan: the Church. There were 490 "weeks of years" from the time the Temple was rebuilt (according to the Book of Daniel), until "transgression was finished". All of this being the case, once Israel rejected the Messiah, God "stopped the clock" on the 490 years, with the last "week" being the time of the tribulation (Daniel 9:27).

This is why Matthew 24 doesn't seem to "mesh" well with the rest of prophecy in the NT: Jesus was speaking in general to the Jews about the time of the Tribulation,  but the church was "God's secret", as Paul speaks of:

"For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles— if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief. By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel, of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God’s grace which was given to me according to the working of His power. To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ, and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confident access through faith in Him. Therefore I ask you not to lose heart at my tribulations on your behalf, for they are your glory." (Ephesians 3:1-13, NASB, emphasis mine)

When we "get apart" that Matthew 24 is not speaking concerning the church per se, but rather, concerning those who would be on the Earth (and in particular, in Israel), it all begins to make sense. The church was a "mystery" (secret) of the ages, but could only come to pass after the offer of the Kingdom had been made.

 

This was longer than i planned on writing, but I felt some issues had to be addressed.

YBIC,

 

-Robert

 

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by RobertS

[Omegaman 3.0]

4 hours ago, Just a Mirror said:

While I find this Rapture talk quite meaningless because it causes strife between believers I shall ask you a few questions that you may choose to ponder.

It is not meaningless, first off, because the Bible has a lot to say about the times, I find it difficult to imagine, that God's word is meaningless.

It does not cause strife between believers. I have lots of conversations with believers about these things, and with people of varying points of view. While I disagree with him, my pastor is an amillennial preterist, and we get along quite fine, enjoying such discussions. It is not the 'talk' that is the problem, it is that too many believers lack the spiritual maturity to control their passions and egos in order to get along. 

If a person is discovering division in the body over these things, then some of these people, need to just take a chill pill and calm down!

However, I did like your post in general!

[Omegaman 3.0]

When I saw the topic of Terry James, I was reminded of his book:

"Rapture Ready…Or Not: 15 Reasons This Is the Generation That Will Be Left Behind"

and was thinking: "Great, just what the church needs, another Hal Lindsey and his 

"Countdown to Armageddon" fisaco.  At least it made him some money!

 

 

[Just a Mirror]

Okay, Now I asked questions soo that would cause people to look up the answers for themselves to avoid the appearance of grandstanding.

My displeasure in this conversation is called "meaningless" because this "rapture" has no bearing on how we as a "church" should conduct our everyday lives, unless that is we somehow mistakenly use our earthly pride in conjunction with our beliefs, if unprovable, because like the reality of a globe, its based on the propaganda passed down to us from your esteemed peers and if we input ANYTHING into our feeble minds enough times it will become a habit, truth, and become our new reality in which we skew all facts to fit our "truth", then will defend to the death until a time that we are enlightened into a new reality where our opinion has changed.

Let us examine the scriptures....

1 Corinthians 4:6-- "....so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other."
 
1 Thessalonians 3:13-- "so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints."
(Coming = 2nd coming, its always the second coming, that's all they knew and talked about, They didn't have the conglomerated new testament to argue about)

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17-- "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord."
(Once again we are meeting Him in the clouds, obviously talking about the 2nd coming again, He scoops us up, and then everyone else gets The Wrath.)

Jude 1:14-- "It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, (15)to execute judgment...."
(He comes with His Holy Ones is again in reference to the 2nd coming, obviously, because they are executing judgement, but that's not your point I know, you are saying Hes coming with them, yes, they are with them, "they" being all who have died and Live in Christ since the beginning, including those from the Resurrection and "catching up" to the clouds, where by the way it does not say we are hid away, but return with Him THAT day, that is again the 2nd coming.)
Oh and Jude quotes the book of Enoch here, which could be of major significance if you read that book.

Revelation 19:14-- "And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses."
(once again pointing to a verse and pointing out what it does not say, actually let me just write a new verse 14, "And the armies which are in heaven, and these are them, the Saints of old, The captives lead from captivity, they from the 1st resurrection and those who were caught up and went directly to heaven, all clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses, but not on the same day as the 1st resurrection or catching up." That should do nicely for some.)

2 Thessalonians 2:7-- "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way."
(possible answer forthcoming...Daniel 12:1--"And at THAT TIME shall MICHAEL shall STAND UP, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.) (emphasis mine) It appears once Michael stands up things start going bad, soo maybe we shouldn't overlook this verse.
I know this wasn't in the three choices you gave me, sorry Hazard.

Matthew 24 9:14-31 pretty much sums it up as far as events and order of events...

9--“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
(here we are)
10-“At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
(here we are)
11-“Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
(here we are)
12-“Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
(here we are)
13-“But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.
(here we are)
14-“This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
(here we are)

Tribulation period
(really all you have here is "days are cut short" if we want to grasp at straws.)

29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
(here we are)
30“And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
(here we are)
31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(there we go!!)

Really you can just take 3 verses...

9--“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
29“But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
31“And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Yahshua failed to mention a pre-tribulation rapture.

OH!! That reminds me aren't we the prideful church? It appears there are some who believe we are represented by the church of Philadelphia, but only because of a belief in a rapture, but once again we take a verse and tell everyone what it does not say. Have you ever thought that the church of Philadelphia is not a part of the tribulation because it came before the Laodacian church? Not because Philadelphia is raptured away?

Revelation 3:15-17 "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked..."

If that isn't the state of the global church today I don't know what is. I mean your just kidding yourself if you believe that's not our time. The only thing that could stop you from believing we are the final church is some belief we are getting miracled away pre-trib style. One misplaced belief leads to another.

Now all that said, have we grown closer to The Father with all the talk of assumed scripture? I think we should examine who our Teacher is, I think that the church, especially the westernized church, has lost their way, will the Laodacian church even admit that they are the Laodacian church? Does a crazy person know they're crazy? "No" is the answer to both questions.

John 10:9--“I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture."
(If you understand this verse you will do well.)

I do enjoy the time and discussion we have here, we can have differences, that is guaranteed, but were all on the same team, and what we do not or cannot know, we will learn someday, if it is Gods will.

As long a we strive to become like our Savior we will do well.

Peace to you.

[Salty]

The OP is all for nought, since God's Word teaches that our Lord Jesus comes only ONE time at the end of this world on the "day of the Lord" which Paul and Peter said will come "as a thief in the night". In Matt.24 and Mark 13 Jesus showed that His coming to gather the Church is AFTER... the tribulation. Those trying to turn that around to some other time have left the Word of God.