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lifeandliberty

Eleven Christians Arrested and Jailed For Sharing

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Guest GstS

Eleven Christians jailed for doing their duty to God, a duty that is protected by the constitution, and it seems most of you don't care. And some of you are saying they "got what they deserved"? Are you Christians? Are you Americans? Than you should be disgusted at the way Christians had their constitutional rights trampled on. And you should be ashamed at the way you presume the worst about a brother in Christ. Shame on you who would side with a Godless police department over a Christian brother and soldier who tries to serve our Lord to the best of his ability.

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The Christians shouldn't be at a Gay Fest if they are opposing homosexuality.

That's like a guy going around with a pro-Bush sign at a peace rally - of course its going to create a ruckus. Their fault, they're paying the price.

Chazy.

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If you are going to break laws to get a point across, you have to be ready to pay the price of breaking those laws. That is the reasoning behind civil disobedience. I am willing to go to jail or pay a fine to get my point across to you......

If they were not arrested, it would defeat the purpose of civil disobedience.

If they think the bible gives them the legal right to break the laws of the land (that we for the most part made) I would disagree. I would think we should work to change the laws, and if that fails then pull a "Lott" and leave the country just before God burns it to dust, and He will burn it if it comes to that......

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Guest sheepish

  • littleladyinblack wrote,
    The Christians shouldn't be at a Gay Fest if they are opposing homosexuality.
    That's like a guy going around with a pro-Bush sign at a peace rally - of course its going to create a ruckus. Their fault, they're paying the price.

Hello, Lady. Why do you say Christians should not be at a "Gay Fest"? Does not the Bible instruct--even command--us to spread the gospel? Did not Jesus preach "repent and believe"? Is not a "Gay Fest" a place where everybody needs to hear that? Why then would you say we should not have been there?

Yes, we caused a "ruckus". So did the apostles.

I do not understand the opposition on a Christian board against peaceful tactics to proclaim the warning of the consequence of sin and the Good News that belief and true faith in Jesus will save.

Oh Lord, You said the fields are white to harvest. Send laborers into Your harvest.

Amen.

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Guest sheepish

  • other one wrote,
    If you are going to break laws to get a point across, you have to be ready to pay the price of breaking those laws. That is the reasoning behind civil disobedience.

Hello.

I will have you to know, that actually, no laws were broken. We were told by the officials that we could go anywhere we wanted, that we were on public property. They gave instruction, and we followed, then they up and said to one of the preachers that we had to leave, when just minutes earlier they said we had every right to be there. Nobody else was told to leave. I was never told to leave. Yet we were all arrested for "failure to disperse". Another charge was "Possession of Instruments of Crime" (a felony). Nobody had any weapons. A friend of mine had only a video camera. I had only a Bible. The rest had signs, truth-horns and cam-corders (the video for evidence/protection).

Do you still think that our arrests were just? If you do, then consider this.

At the time of arrest, we (not myself, personally) kept asking what we were being arrested for. No answer. We were given no reason. Aske again. One person was told, "We'll figure that out later".

Do you still think the arrests were just?

I hope not, because all that we did was follow the command of God in accordance with the laws of man. We broke no law at all.

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Guest GstS
If they think the bible gives them the legal right to break the laws of the land (that we for the most part made) I would disagree.

FYI, the Constitution IS the law of the land, and any "law" that contradicts it is not law. Just because a man with a tin badge says "you can't preach here" doesn't make it law, plain and simple. It really is a sham there are so many "christians" that think we must do anything the "authoritys" tell us. "We ought to obey God rather than men."

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That's an interesting statement. Do you have a specific Biblical reference that states this? Where has Christ ever said, "Kindness leads to repentance?"

It's the entire thought process behind grace. God was kind enough to offer up His own Son for our salvation and directs us through life in kindness. Notice how the fruits of the spirit are kindness, gentleness, peacefulness, self-control, love, patience, faithfulness, and joy. All of them are fruits of the Spirit because they are characteristics of Jesus and the Spirit. Explain to me how Christians toting signs telling people they're going to hell match any of these fruits.

From what I understand of the Bible, it is not kindness that causes one to repent. It is not God's love that makes people look at Him and say, "Oh...He's so good...I'll stop all the bad things I do and follow Him."

Then you do not understand the Bible at all. It's through God's love that we grow in Him. All salvation and repentence verses in the new Testament make this extremely clear. I think you have a skewed view of God's love. It's not a good feeling that cheers you up, it's a feeling that breaks you and you realize that despite all that you do God still loves you, thus out of this desire to return His love you do all you can to avoid sin.

Kindness and love is something one experiences AFTER they have already repented. It is not a prerequisite to repentance.

What is the prerequisite?

That is a fallacy at best, a heresy at worst. God's love is given to people BEFORE they have repented, otherwise they would not repent. Notice how in all the miracles of Christ (which are symbols and examples of what Christ does with us) they came to Him as they were needing love. It is only after Christ loves them and forgives them and restores them that He calls them to repentance.

Fear.

The Bible says that, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge." and "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

The Bible also admonishes us to, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Christ said, "Fear not the one who can kill the body, but rather fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell."

What causes one to repent? What shows someone the NEED to turn from their evil ways?

It's not the love of God, it is the FEAR of God.

It is the knowledge that God is wholly righteous and perfect and that we, in our sinful states, are vile and wretched.

It is the knowledge that because sin is such an offense to God that, He will punish it with DEATH.

If God, through His grace, has given eyes to see....He has given you those eyes so that you can see how desperately in need you are of His forgiveness.

Yet you have to understand that there is a loving God in order for any of this to matter. Salvation comes down to love, not fear. Fear leads to the belief of love which leads to a dedication to Christ.

The apostles all preached "Repent ye, and turn from your wicked ways" and THEN times of refreshing will come.

Why do you follow Christ?

Is it because He's your buddy and you really think he's cool?

Or is it because you give due reverence to Him and are following because He is the righteous LORD over all creation?

If answered yes to the first question, then you're missing a very important ingredient in your walk with God.

The answer is both. There is nothing wrong with considering Christ a friend or a pal. At the same time we have to keep in mind that He is the Lord of all Creation, but we can only understand this through loving Christ.

If someone is about to run off the edge of a cliff, what do you do?

Do you casually walk by and say in a soft loving voice, "God loves you, sir...just keep on going the way you are."

Or...

Do you run up to them and yell, "STOP! TURN AROUND!" (Oh gosh...raising your voice? How ungodly.)

Which is the more loving? The method that makes the one running to destruction feel good about themselves? Or the method that shakes them out of their rythem and disturbs them?

It's a false analogy. You need to point out in the Bible when Jesus or the aposlte's performed such actions.

Those of you who were saying that the methods used by those who were arrested were unloving and not Christ-like, REALLY do not know my sister. In fact, it's laughable that anyone would suggest that she is anything but a godly and upright young girl who loves the Lord and loved every single person that she came in contact with while she was on that tour.

I have no problem saying your sister's actions were not Christ like...because they weren't. She was toting around a sign saying, "you're going ot hell" and violating the law. That's not Christ-like by any stretch of the imagination.

Is the love of Christ something that coddles us until we decide to repent?

Yes, read Hosea.

Or is the love of Christ something that forces us to see the reality of our sin, so that we see a NEED to repent?

That's done through love.

"But that's offensive" you say. I find it interesting that Christ said, "I came not to being peace into the world, but a sword." The Word of God and God's Truth is many times likened unto a sword

This is talking about persecution. He was explaining the cost of following Him, that it wouldn't always be easy, that people would hate us because of Him. He is warning them that the sword will come against them, not peace, by following Him.

Those of you who say, "We need to show love not condemn the sinner."

That's NOT the sword of the Word. That's a pillow. That's the love of a little pink bunny that wants to give you a big hug. It is not the love of a holy God that wants you to REPENT.

Well, I guess the Bible is wrong when it tells us specifically not to condemn. While we need to let people that their actions will lead them to hell, this can only be done in a loving way (as Christ did with the lost). Notice when Jesus encountered the woman at the well she did not seek redemption or anything. Yet He showed her love and that brought her to repentence. He didn't tell her she was going to hell, He didn't condemn her to an eternal life of punishment, He simply explained His love and that was enough. The love of Christ is enough to bring anyone to Him.

To tell them that they are actually NOT condemned and that God loves them just the way they are? To let them go on their way thinking God loves them?

Do you even know what God's love is? I suggest you do a study of it, because you obviously have a theologically inaccurate view of it. God's love admits that we are condemned without Him but that it is His love that saves us from this condemnation if we accept it.

I found it humorous that someone quoted Ghandi when he said, "I would follow Christ if it were not for the Christians."

Does this reflect poorly on the Christian? Or on Ghandi?

He may just as easily have said, "I would follow Christ, if it were not for Christ."

It reflects poorly upon Christians. If you read the context behind it I showed that Ghandi made this quote after being refused to speak about the punishment the Indians endured in India. The Anglican church in england would not allow him to speak about the injustices. Ghandi, who wanted to follow Christ, saw how Christians acted and probably didn't want to become one of them.

Everyone LOVES to have a play-dough Jesus...a savior that is molded to fit THEIR lives and THEIR wants. A savior who will save them on THEIR terms.

But NOBODY wants to follow a God who demands obedience. NOBODY wants to follow a savior who demands a life for life trade. Christ gave His life for you, and it is your REASONABLE service to live you life in complete obedience and sacrifice to Him.

Because legalist like you (who don't know the first thing about God's love) strip Christ of love and make it appear as if all He requires is obediance. You act like we have some certain standard to live up to or that if we fail in something Christ is going to condemn us. That is not the Christ of the Bible. I highly recommend you read, "The Jesus I never Knew" by Phillip Yancey and then follow up with, "What's so Amazing About Grace" by the same author.

And I'm not saying anything against speaking the Truth in love. But most Christians, in my experience, when they talk about being loving to the sinner it is to the exclusion of the Truth. Or they make the Truth "easier to digest" by watering it down with a bunch of fluff.

Those Christians are wrong. We don't need to water down the gospel in order to show the love of Christ. At the same time, we don't need to tote around signs saying, "you're going to hell". No one has been or ever will be saved from that. Instead, developing a relationship with a homosexual and becomming their friend and showing them Christ over a period of time will do so much better.

It is better to be completely Truthful and spare not, than to be partly Truthful and "loving" them all the way. Because you really don't do anyone any favors when you keep the complete unvarnished Truth to yourself and try to make it more acceptable to human ears. That is NOT loving.

Absolutely wrong. It is better to be completely loving than truthful. If a person is loving it will at least get a person into the Bible. Then they can discover the entire truth.

Are goodness and kindness the same thing? You might think so, but there is a notable difference. God's kindness is specifically in how He displays His love to His children. God's goodness is His overall character. Everything that is God, is good. God is the very essence of goodness.

According to the Greek, they are the same thing. It can be translated as either "kindness" or "goodness" but the meaning remains. The fact is, you're ignoring that this verse teaches us that it is the kindness of God that leads us to repentence. IN other words, it is God's mercy and grace that brings a person to Him...not fanatics toting around signs.

It is by the hearing of the Truth of God's Word that faith comes unto repentance and salvation.

The truth of God IS the love of God.

Eleven Christians jailed for doing their duty to God, a duty that is protected by the constitution, and it seems most of you don't care. And some of you are saying they "got what they deserved"? Are you Christians? Are you Americans? Than you should be disgusted at the way Christians had their constitutional rights trampled on. And you should be ashamed at the way you presume the worst about a brother in Christ. Shame on you who would side with a Godless police department over a Christian brother and soldier who tries to serve our Lord to the best of his ability.

First off, it's already been proven their actions were highly un-christ like. Secondly, they violated the constitution by trampling on the rights of the homosexuals.

Does not the Bible instruct--even command--us to spread the gospel? Did not Jesus preach "repent and believe"? Is not a "Gay Fest" a place where everybody needs to hear that? Why then would you say we should not have been there?

When did Jesus commit such actions? Instead He went and dined with sinners. This gives the idea of a non-confrontational friendly atmosphere. It's easier to talk to someone if they realize you love them despite their flaws.

I will have you to know, that actually, no laws were broken. We were told by the officials that we could go anywhere we wanted, that we were on public property. They gave instruction, and we followed, then they up and said to one of the preachers that we had to leave, when just minutes earlier they said we had every right to be there. Nobody else was told to leave. I was never told to leave. Yet we were all arrested for "failure to disperse". Another charge was "Possession of Instruments of Crime" (a felony). Nobody had any weapons. A friend of mine had only a video camera. I had only a Bible. The rest had signs, truth-horns and cam-corders (the video for evidence/protection).

Do you still think that our arrests were just? If you do, then consider this.

At the time of arrest, we (not myself, personally) kept asking what we were being arrested for. No answer. We were given no reason. Aske again. One person was told, "We'll figure that out later".

Do you still think the arrests were just?

Yes, I do! First off, the officers probably got commands from a higher command to get you guys out of there. Secondly, the reason the officer told the pastor is that the pastor was most likely suppose to tell all of you. Therefore it's his own fault.

Fact is, you shouldn't have been there and I'm glad you got arrested.

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Guest GstS
Yes, I do! First off, the officers probably got commands from a higher command to get you guys out of there.

So what, it was an unconstitutional command, and therefore should be disobeyed.

Secondly, the reason the officer told the pastor is that the pastor was most likely suppose to tell all of you. Therefore it's his own fault.

A bit ignorant. It is not the preachers job to issue those in the group the warning. Guess who's job it is.

Fact is, you shouldn't have been there and I'm glad you got arrested.

Our Lord Jesus preached "repent and belive"(Matthew 4:17), John the Baptist preached "repent and belive"(Matthew 3:1-2), the Apostles preached "repent and belive"(Mark 7-12). But todays Christian tries to preach "repent and belive" and you want them arrested? Shame on you.

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So what, it was an unconstitutional command, and therefore should be disobeyed.

Unconstitutional in your own opinion. Likewise, are you suggesting that they should have disobeyed their authority, something we're forbidden to do in the Bible?

A bit ignorant. It is not the preachers job to issue those in the group the warning. Guess who's job it is.

Legally it is the pastor's job. If he organized the event then he is the one that has to tell all of them to leave. If he didn't he violated his legal obligation and is the one that should be held responcible.

Our Lord Jesus preached "repent and belive"(Matthew 4:17), John the Baptist preached "repent and belive"(Matthew 3:1-2), the Apostles preached "repent and belive"(Mark 7-12). But todays Christian tries to preach "repent and belive" and you want them arrested? Shame on you.

You're ignoring how they preached it. John the Baptist preached it as a different type in a different way. He was telling people that the Messiah was near and that they needed to repent of their Judaic ways in preperation for the Messiah. Jesus, in Matthew 4:17, was not toting around a sign saying, "You're going to hell." Instead, while He began to preach His message of "repent and believe", when we look at the Bible it was done with love and temperrence. Likewise, when we look to the apostles, we see the same thing. However when we look to these protesters, we see no such thing.

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HI, PHILIDELPHIA: City of brotherly love, Hmmm, This sure looks like a case of the POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK, Now who's the INTOLERANT ONES  :suspect: Signs of the TIMES FOLKS get READY...........TAKO

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Philidelphia,city of brother love? I don't think so...

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