whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 It us true that no one knows the time nor the date, the Lord said so himself. but we must understand that He is talking about the rapture. Christ does not specifically reference the rapture anywhere in the Gospels, bear in mind He came to the "lost sheep of Israel": His primay audience. The mystery of the Rapture is revealed to the Church by paul (another reason it cannot be the same as the Second Advent). Why do you believe the rapture is a mystery that was revealed by Paul? I agree that Christ was "sent to the lost sheep of Israel" but I don't understand the connection to rapture with that??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Why do you believe the rapture is a mystery that was revealed by Paul? Because he states that in I Corinthians 15 Thank you for your reply The Ancient Words: 1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52.In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. Paul didn't write, "Behold, I shew you a mystery....Christ is coming back to fly the church away." The mystery he writes of is not rapture...it is that "we shall not all sleep." We will all be changed At The Last Trump and that is the 7th trump....when Christ arrives at His 2nd. Advent. No where does it tell us He comes before that and He Himself told us: Mark 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. He told us ALL things and never did He mention anything like a rapture. Rather, He went on at great length in Matthew, Mark and Luke about what is expected of us in the end of days.....it is not to fly away. If you wish to believe in a rapture please understand that Satan comes before Christ and if you mistakenly follow him, believing he is our Saviour....then you have taken the mark of the beast! Remember, Jesus told us he would be very, very good at what he does so be careful my friend in Christ.....Don't be taken. .........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 4, 2007 The mystery he writes of is not rapture Yes, it is it is that "we shall not all sleep." The Resurrection as no mystery, Christ spoke about it. Instantaneous translaton was not the mystery, that happened to Enoch and Elijah. No, the mystery was and is the secret translation of the Church, and the timing of it! We will all be changed At The Last Trump "The trumpet will sound". The very same trumpet call is announced in Revelation 4. The translation of the Church has aboslutely nothing to do with the trumpet judgments which unleash God's fury on the earth. He told us ALL things and never did He mention anything like a rapture. Rather, He went on at great length in Matthew, Mark and Luke about what is expected of us in the end of days.....it is not to fly away. Which is why Paul declares it a mystery! And you always have to keep the audience in mind: the audience of Jesus was Israel, Christ came to the "lost sheep of Israel", Paul was the "apostle to the Gentiles". Sure the change of bodies is the "mystery." It may have happened to Elijah and Enoch but no one else thought it would happen to them. Paul is telling them the mystery and that is what he is explaining. If rapture was the mystery it was still a mystery when he finished speaking. The trumpet in Rev.4 has nothing to do with the 7 trumpets of end times. John writes that, "and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet." That is very different than the "angels sounding" and great stars falling, etc. As far as the mystery being so mysterious that Christ didn't tell anyone, to me, would make Christ a liar. He said, "I have foretold you all things" and prefaced that with "Take heed." So....be careful, believe in a rapture if you wish but my sincere belief is that it is part of the deception of end times. And it will cause many to be taken! ........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvy Posted November 4, 2007 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 25 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 4, 2007 Sure the change of bodies is the "mystery." It may have happened to Elijah and Enoch but no one else thought it would happen to them. it's not just the event itself, it's the timing of it, and the subject of it (the Church) The trumpet in Rev.4 has nothing to do with the 7 trumpets of end times. agree! but it bears a striking similarity to the hallmarks of the rapture in I Thessalonians 4 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words. Revelation 4 And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whirlwind Posted November 5, 2007 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 113 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/06/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/22/1946 Share Posted November 5, 2007 To Whom is the reward of Eternal life regarding the "Right" understanding of God's Words? Upon Whom is our confidence for eternal life to rest? From whom do we get this Knowledge for for substantiaion of personal confidence for everlasting life? Where does God tell us His faith shouold flow from? Does He not say, "Faith comes by the hearing and hearing via His words?" Thank you for your thoughts on this subject. I agree with what you stated but a question arises; when you say, or when He said, "Faith comes by the hearing and hearing via His words?" How, or why....do such different faiths come from the same words? Most of us believe in Christ and most of us believe in a life after this but so many differ on the trip there. We read the same passages and see a different lesson contained in them. Perhaps there is no absolute right or wrong.....or perhaps there is. Some of the differing scriptures I don't believe will affect anyone's salvation but others will. I see the rapture doctrine as one that will. My reasoning is that if church goers - those that don't truly study but accept the teachings of their pastors (who may or may not be false teachers) believe that they will be flown away then they are not prepared for the end of days.....they won't know that the anti-christ comes first, pretending to be our Saviour....They will follow him and in doing so will take the mark of the beast! They will believe his lies. Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. We know he is coming, we know he is coming before the Advent of Christ and we should be prepared for his deceit. So....my question is, are those that are being taught rapture also being taught that, just in case there is no rapture? ........Whirlwind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted November 9, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2007 the time of the Rapture, the Catching away, of the saints, really does not matter for those that are unsaved, for they will be here left alone...... God will be withdrawing His Holy Spirit from the earth, and only a hand full of people will have the annointing..... the Tribulation, will not be a time of easy days, but a time of survival, people that do not have the mark people that are not worshipping the beast or the anti christ, thous that do not want anything to do with satan, will be running and hiding and there will be no place to hide, they will be running for their lives..... they will be searching for food, for shelter, for everything for no one wil lbe able to buy with out the mark (or sell) being this will be a rough time, rougher then anything is now, many times rougher..... if people are having a hard time during peace to accept and follow Christ for fear of intimidation, there will be even a harder time during the time of death for them to say YES to Christ...... in other words, if a person is having trouble during peaceful times to be living for Christ, up-right and blameless, they will more then likely turn away from Christ during the heavy trials and tribulation to come.... they have no foundation, and will be taking (going with the flow) the easy way out..... with out the foundation, they will be swept away when the tides come rolling in.... as far as what I believe is the word "Rapture" is not in the Bible, no where, but the concept is..... as far as why it seems to be a new concept, goes back to Daniel, when the Lord and him were talking, and the Lord told Daniel he was not to concern himself with it, for he would be sleeping.... and that the Book (knowledge) of this would be sealed until the end time..... I personally believe the rapture will be prior to the tribulation...... Christ does not return until after the Tribulation, but we meet Him in the air.... and then go enjoy the wedding feast...... then when Christ returns, so do we for the great battle of Armagedon....... well, must be off, time to head off to work. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted November 9, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 9, 2007 there are many people who think they know all the answers from the Scriptures..... problem is, not all the answers are in the Scriptures..... yet they are spoken of..... you see, when John went up into the Third Heaven, and seen things that none of us have ever seen.... John also received knowledge ( in form of a book or scroll ) and he was instructed to eat it..... it was sweet to taste and bitter to the stomach..... the question is, my dear friends, WHAT WAS IN THE BOOK????? was it more information about how the end times will be? or even the exact time of the Rapture? or even how it will look when we all get there? or maybe the bitterness was seeing those that that we love, being cast into the lake of fire? I dont know, and neither does anyone else that is walking the earth................. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted November 10, 2007 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.97 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Where is the mod team on this one? My apologies. Been rather busy tonight.... But you're right. This thread is closed. Please, everyone take a moment and review our TOS in regards to posting. Thank you, t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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