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jasoncran

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Can you PROVE that Bin Laden was 'a creature of the Saudis and the Pakistani Intelligence service'? We know he was a Saudi citizen. We also are aware the the ISI is not our friend. And that may come back to bite Pakistan in the rear end. If we can tie UBL to the ISI, we'd be justified in leveling Islamabad.

The fact that bin Ladin spent his retirement not in some obscure cave, as US propoganda at the time would have us believe, but in very large and rather ugly house less than a mile from the Pakistani military academy, in a neighbourhood favoured by retired military officers is a pretty clear indication of his links with the ISI.

As to your little rant about "levelling" Islamabad, what exactly is Christian about contemplating the mass murder of 1,000,000 civillians - that's the number of people who live in Islamabad? What makes your attitude so different from the Jihadist ranters?There is something deeply pagan in this view that it is acceptable to punish the innocent by slaugtering them, in their homes or in their workplace, merely because of the crimes or perceived crimes of the regimes that happen to have to live under

Mass murder? No, act of war. We did it to the Japanese. They haven't bothered the world since. And I said we (the US) would be justified in leveling Islamabad, IF a tie could be established. And if the green on blue killings continue, we need to deal with THAT too. The problem is that we as Westerners don't understand the mindset of these people. They respect strength and despise weakness. HIt me once, shame on you, keep hitting me, SHAME ON ME for doing nothing about it. And as I said before: I think you need to shut up before you make someone REALLY angry.

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newflash, hamid karzai and most of the members were voted in.

Well they were declared winners some pretty fraudulent elections.

http://www.guardian....-fraud-evidence

You're such a muslim apologist....why don't you start a thread on that subject?

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Can you PROVE that Bin Laden was 'a creature of the Saudis and the Pakistani Intelligence service'? We know he was a Saudi citizen. We also are aware the the ISI is not our friend. And that may come back to bite Pakistan in the rear end. If we can tie UBL to the ISI, we'd be justified in leveling Islamabad.

The fact that bin Ladin spent his retirement not in some obscure cave, as US propoganda at the time would have us believe, but in very large and rather ugly house less than a mile from the Pakistani military academy, in a neighbourhood favoured by retired military officers is a pretty clear indication of his links with the ISI.

As to your little rant about "levelling" Islamabad, what exactly is Christian about contemplating the mass murder of 1,000,000 civillians - that's the number of people who live in Islamabad? What makes your attitude so different from the Jihadist ranters?There is something deeply pagan in this view that it is acceptable to punish the innocent by slaugtering them, in their homes or in their workplace, merely because of the crimes or perceived crimes of the regimes that happen to have to live under

Mass murder? No, act of war. We did it to the Japanese. They haven't bothered the world since. And I said we (the US) would be justified in leveling Islamabad, IF a tie could be established. And if the green on blue killings continue, we need to deal with THAT too. The problem is that we as Westerners don't understand the mindset of these people. They respect strength and despise weakness. HIt me once, shame on you, keep hitting me, SHAME ON ME for doing nothing about it. And as I said before: I think you need to shut up before you make someone REALLY angry.

How would levelling Islamabad not be an act of mass murder? As to mindsets my experience is that they're pretty similar the whole world over. Yours for instance, as I hinted at earlier, is no different from that of the Mullahs in the Mosques who fulminate against "Crusaders and Zionists", your attitude is merely the other side of the same coin. You see your targets as somehow different, less human than yourself, when infact they're as deeply human as you.

It is a deeply unChritian attitude. Where in the Gospels does Jesus advocate the type of pointless slaughter that you advocate here. I suggest that insread of getting angry you turn to the New Testament and start reading the Gospels and learn to love unconditionally and not to hate.

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newflash, hamid karzai and most of the members were voted in.

Well they were declared winners some pretty fraudulent elections.

http://www.guardian....-fraud-evidence

You're such a muslim apologist....why don't you start a thread on that subject?

What for having the temerity of pointing out that the Afghan elections were deeply flawed, much more deeply flawed than US one. This is not a question of a few hanging chads or inadequate photo ID but one of intimidation and ballot stuffing on a huge scale.

I don't apologise for anyone, I merely highlight the reality. If I'm wrong prove it rather than throwing silly comments around.

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Can you PROVE that Bin Laden was 'a creature of the Saudis and the Pakistani Intelligence service'? We know he was a Saudi citizen. We also are aware the the ISI is not our friend. And that may come back to bite Pakistan in the rear end. If we can tie UBL to the ISI, we'd be justified in leveling Islamabad.

The fact that bin Ladin spent his retirement not in some obscure cave, as US propoganda at the time would have us believe, but in very large and rather ugly house less than a mile from the Pakistani military academy, in a neighbourhood favoured by retired military officers is a pretty clear indication of his links with the ISI.

As to your little rant about "levelling" Islamabad, what exactly is Christian about contemplating the mass murder of 1,000,000 civillians - that's the number of people who live in Islamabad? What makes your attitude so different from the Jihadist ranters?There is something deeply pagan in this view that it is acceptable to punish the innocent by slaugtering them, in their homes or in their workplace, merely because of the crimes or perceived crimes of the regimes that happen to have to live under

Mass murder? No, act of war. We did it to the Japanese. They haven't bothered the world since. And I said we (the US) would be justified in leveling Islamabad, IF a tie could be established. And if the green on blue killings continue, we need to deal with THAT too. The problem is that we as Westerners don't understand the mindset of these people. They respect strength and despise weakness. HIt me once, shame on you, keep hitting me, SHAME ON ME for doing nothing about it. And as I said before: I think you need to shut up before you make someone REALLY angry.

How would levelling Islamabad not be an act of mass murder? As to mindsets my experience is that they're pretty similar the whole world over. Yours for instance, as I hinted at earlier, is no different from that of the Mullahs in the Mosques who fulminate against "Crusaders and Zionists", your attitude is merely the other side of the same coin. You see your targets as somehow different, less human than yourself, when infact they're as deeply human as you.

It is a deeply unChritian attitude. Where in the Gospels does Jesus advocate the type of pointless slaughter that you advocate here. I suggest that insread of getting angry you turn to the New Testament and start reading the Gospels and learn to love unconditionally and not to hate.

How would levelling Islamabad not be an act of mass murder?

It would be, and it makes no sense to the solution anyway.

It is just an attitude of "if you are against me, the best thing I think I should do is kill you".

As Christians we need to balance our talk and our walk, no matter who the opposition is, or what they do.

I think that is what Jesus would call for.

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Can you PROVE that Bin Laden was 'a creature of the Saudis and the Pakistani Intelligence service'? We know he was a Saudi citizen. We also are aware the the ISI is not our friend. And that may come back to bite Pakistan in the rear end. If we can tie UBL to the ISI, we'd be justified in leveling Islamabad.

The fact that bin Ladin spent his retirement not in some obscure cave, as US propoganda at the time would have us believe, but in very large and rather ugly house less than a mile from the Pakistani military academy, in a neighbourhood favoured by retired military officers is a pretty clear indication of his links with the ISI.

As to your little rant about "levelling" Islamabad, what exactly is Christian about contemplating the mass murder of 1,000,000 civillians - that's the number of people who live in Islamabad? What makes your attitude so different from the Jihadist ranters?There is something deeply pagan in this view that it is acceptable to punish the innocent by slaugtering them, in their homes or in their workplace, merely because of the crimes or perceived crimes of the regimes that happen to have to live under

Mass murder? No, act of war. We did it to the Japanese. They haven't bothered the world since. And I said we (the US) would be justified in leveling Islamabad, IF a tie could be established. And if the green on blue killings continue, we need to deal with THAT too. The problem is that we as Westerners don't understand the mindset of these people. They respect strength and despise weakness. HIt me once, shame on you, keep hitting me, SHAME ON ME for doing nothing about it. And as I said before: I think you need to shut up before you make someone REALLY angry.

How would levelling Islamabad not be an act of mass murder? As to mindsets my experience is that they're pretty similar the whole world over. Yours for instance, as I hinted at earlier, is no different from that of the Mullahs in the Mosques who fulminate against "Crusaders and Zionists", your attitude is merely the other side of the same coin. You see your targets as somehow different, less human than yourself, when infact they're as deeply human as you.

It is a deeply unChritian attitude. Where in the Gospels does Jesus advocate the type of pointless slaughter that you advocate here. I suggest that insread of getting angry you turn to the New Testament and start reading the Gospels and learn to love unconditionally and not to hate.

Depends on HOW you level it. If the Pakistani government hid Bin Laden from us, while all the time accepting our aid, then they are two-faced. We could level Islamabad's government areas, while leaving the city itself reasonably intact. There WOULD be civilian casualties, but they could be minimized. What we can't do is simply let them do whatever they like to us and do nothing in return. They will keep doing it.

And so for your last comment, I warned you twice. I am sick of you. You blather how we Americans are so wrong, how this is all our fault. WHO ATTACKED WHOM? We were all sitting about minding our own business when those planes were flown into our buildings. And since you speak such good Arabic, WHERE WERE YOU? Are you one of them? Hmm. I have yet to see you castigate these killers. Perhaps I've missed it because I wasn't looking for it, but all I have seen in your writings is America is at fault. Well I got news for you bubba: If I had been President, I'd have dealt with it a lot differently. I wouldn't have bothered with sending troops. "You have 1 week to deliver the perpetrators of this attack." I will leave it to you to fill in the blanks.

We Americans take way too much crap from foreigners telling us how to live, telling us how wrong we are, how our government is so bad, etc. Fix your own Third World holes in the wall. Grow your own food. Elect your own stable government. And above all, fight your own battles and quit running to America to do it for you. The next time a Hussein, an Assad, an Ahaminejad, a Castro, a Chavez or a Bin Laden or a Taliban comes along, fight em yourself with whatever you can find. And when they slaughter you wholesale because you had insufficient weaponry to fight them off, don't come to us. We're tired of ya.

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Can you PROVE that Bin Laden was 'a creature of the Saudis and the Pakistani Intelligence service'? We know he was a Saudi citizen. We also are aware the the ISI is not our friend. And that may come back to bite Pakistan in the rear end. If we can tie UBL to the ISI, we'd be justified in leveling Islamabad.

The fact that bin Ladin spent his retirement not in some obscure cave, as US propoganda at the time would have us believe, but in very large and rather ugly house less than a mile from the Pakistani military academy, in a neighbourhood favoured by retired military officers is a pretty clear indication of his links with the ISI.

As to your little rant about "levelling" Islamabad, what exactly is Christian about contemplating the mass murder of 1,000,000 civillians - that's the number of people who live in Islamabad? What makes your attitude so different from the Jihadist ranters?There is something deeply pagan in this view that it is acceptable to punish the innocent by slaugtering them, in their homes or in their workplace, merely because of the crimes or perceived crimes of the regimes that happen to have to live under

Mass murder? No, act of war. We did it to the Japanese. They haven't bothered the world since. And I said we (the US) would be justified in leveling Islamabad, IF a tie could be established. And if the green on blue killings continue, we need to deal with THAT too. The problem is that we as Westerners don't understand the mindset of these people. They respect strength and despise weakness. HIt me once, shame on you, keep hitting me, SHAME ON ME for doing nothing about it. And as I said before: I think you need to shut up before you make someone REALLY angry.

How would levelling Islamabad not be an act of mass murder? As to mindsets my experience is that they're pretty similar the whole world over. Yours for instance, as I hinted at earlier, is no different from that of the Mullahs in the Mosques who fulminate against "Crusaders and Zionists", your attitude is merely the other side of the same coin. You see your targets as somehow different, less human than yourself, when infact they're as deeply human as you.

It is a deeply unChritian attitude. Where in the Gospels does Jesus advocate the type of pointless slaughter that you advocate here. I suggest that insread of getting angry you turn to the New Testament and start reading the Gospels and learn to love unconditionally and not to hate.

Depends on HOW you level it. If the Pakistani government hid Bin Laden from us, while all the time accepting our aid, then they are two-faced. We could level Islamabad's government areas, while leaving the city itself reasonably intact. There WOULD be civilian casualties, but they could be minimized. What we can't do is simply let them do whatever they like to us and do nothing in return. They will keep doing it.

And so for your last comment, I warned you twice. I am sick of you. You blather how we Americans are so wrong, how this is all our fault. WHO ATTACKED WHOM? We were all sitting about minding our own business when those planes were flown into our buildings. And since you speak such good Arabic, WHERE WERE YOU? Are you one of them? Hmm. I have yet to see you castigate these killers. Perhaps I've missed it because I wasn't looking for it, but all I have seen in your writings is America is at fault. Well I got news for you bubba: If I had been President, I'd have dealt with it a lot differently. I wouldn't have bothered with sending troops. "You have 1 week to deliver the perpetrators of this attack." I will leave it to you to fill in the blanks.

We Americans take way too much crap from foreigners telling us how to live, telling us how wrong we are, how our government is so bad, etc. Fix your own Third World holes in the wall. Grow your own food. Elect your own stable government. And above all, fight your own battles and quit running to America to do it for you. The next time a Hussein, an Assad, an Ahaminejad, a Castro, a Chavez or a Bin Laden or a Taliban comes along, fight em yourself with whatever you can find. And when they slaughter you wholesale because you had insufficient weaponry to fight them off, don't come to us. We're tired of ya.

I understand your anger, brother, but let's not forget that Christians who wish to have no part of these acts and would happily leave these countries if given the chance would get caught up in all of this. These people aren't necessarily responsible for their government's actions. Your argument isn't impractical at all, but practicality and morality do not always go hand in hand. Practically, the united states could just kill any foreign national in any country who might ever present a potential threat for any reason to protect itself. This would be highly, highly immoral, though.

Should punitive action against those who perpetrate attacks against the united states be taken? Certainly. Is there a reason to threaten nuclear war or some other sort of annihilation over an attack perpetrated by terrorists based in a country like Afghanistan (at the time)? No. The reason I say this is that it would serve no reasonable purpose. Burning Islamabad to the ground would also serve no reasonable purpose. My recommendation for situations such as this would be CHANGING the cultures rather than attempting to leave the cultures intact and give them the gift of "western democracy" in hopes that they can maintain their culture while also participating in open and free democracy. If I were in a position of power and it was imperative that we invade and occupy a nation such as afghanistan or pakistan, my response would be to sponsor 15 or 20 thousand Christian missionaries and then use our military to defend them, and simply let nature take its course. Whatever your position, my position, Amor's position, etc., the current world policing/nation building policies we are employing are clearly not working.

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I wouldn't use a nuke, that's overkill. Like I said, reducing the government areas of Islamabad would serve. The people shouldn't be held responsible for what the corrupt government did. I would take out their nuclear capability though. Duplicitous governments can't be trusted with nuclear weapons, and doubly so for Islamic ones.

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It is a deeply unChritian attitude. Where in the Gospels does Jesus advocate the type of pointless slaughter that you advocate here. I suggest that insread of getting angry you turn to the New Testament and start reading the Gospels and learn to love unconditionally and not to hate.

I guess you don't take Revelation literal, do you?

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The cause of the killing of coalition soldiers by Afghan 'allies'? Islam. They are bound by their 'allah', a.k.a. satan, to do these things.

Actually I believe that allah translated simply means god, However I agree that that they do not pray to the creator God and do not know who Jesus really is, they believe he was a minor prophet and will appear with Muhammed.I dont know if they are praying to satan in particular , but they are definately praying to a brass heaven and that satan is behind the deception

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