" Jesus Second Coming"

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

Daniel 9:24 - Seventy - sevens are decreed. v.25 - Know and understand this; from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Annointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens (69 sevens) v. 27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for "one seven", In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him/it.

Convenient how you skip vs. 26. This is why it is dangerous to condense a text or summarize points. Have you considered why the 69 sevens are broken down into two segments of 7 sevens and 62 sevens? What happened at the 7 sevens point? I also reject your choice to use the NIV for these verses. It is just WRONG to say "on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation!" THOSE WORDS ARE NOT THERE IN HEBREW!!!

Go to Dan 12:11-13 - From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that cause desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days; Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. As for you (Daniel), go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of these days you will rise up to receive your alloted inheritance.

The 70 - sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens. 7 - sevens, 62 - sevens, and 1 - seven. Absolutley no mention of a seven being split and divided into two seperate parts. Scripture says in the middle of the seven (one seven). A one seven is 7 contineous years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes, the 70 sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens UNTIL the 70th seven! Then, just as you quoted, "In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." This DOES split and divide the last seven into two separate parts! It is also YESHUA`S DOING! There isn't a "gap" between the 69th and the 70th seven, as many want to believe; YESHUA` HIMSELF put the gap between the first 69.5 sevens and the last 0.5 seven when he left them DESOLATE!!! However, Yeshua` did not CAUSE the gap; the JEWS did when they rejected Him as God's Messiah, God's Anointed, to be King!

That first half of the 70th seven was the 3.5 years of Yeshua`s "earthly ministry," when He offered the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! If you want to keep the whole seven together as a unit, you would have to accept the Preterist point of view, but I won't. He won't try again until they welcome Him back as God's Anointed (Matthew 23:37-39; Psalm 118:22-26). During THOSE 3.5 years, Yeshua` will not only offer the Kingdom again to the Jews, but He will also fight for Isra'el as they are attacked by bullying, neighboring countries, most likely including Egypt and Iran.

[Bold Believer]

Just as in the case as having 4 different books called gospel of Christ , each book refers to the same Christ , not various ones, each author offers a viewpoint that offers some new view from thier own perspective,, as in John offers info that the others do not, but it still refers to the same Christ ..likewise the scriptures from various books speak of the same 2nd coming of Christ , not 3 different times, as we see in real world events as the time draws near , there will be a 7 year covenant treaty that guarentees Israel peace and security for 7 years , this will be confirmed by the man of sin, then at the mid point , 3 1/2 years into it ,he breaks the convenant and demands to be worshipped , he sends out the order to kill Jews in Judea and ravage the people , shortly after this begins, Gods wrath of the inhabitants of earth begins , to punish those who have rejected Christ , but will permit those who do repent and ask for Christs salvation to spend eternity in the LORDS Kingdom

Exactly WHERE in Daniel 9:24 to chapter end does the Scripture state that the covenant is 7 years in length? Where is the 'man of sin' in this passage?

[Bold Believer]

Shabbat shalom, Danielzk.

The 7 year tribulation I believe is really misundertsood presentation,, the Great Tribulation last 3 1/2 years ,, but the 70th week is 7 years ,...a peace treaty for 7 years years ,, tribulation as we now have it will continue but when the man of sin desecrates the temple by sitting in the throne claiming to be god and sending out orders to kill all Jews in Judea starts the Great trib,,, Bride of Christ is caught up into the clouids to be with Jesus at the time when the son of perdition is revealed at the start of the 70th week ,,, people somehow started calling it a 7 year trib ,,

Actually, most people who study the book of Revelation are stuck in this concept that the 70th Seven is the Tribulation, and that the last half of the Seven is the Great Tribulation. And being stuck, they misread Revelation when it talks about the "42 months," or "the time, times and half a time," or "a thousand two hundred and threescore days":

Revelation 11:1-13:10

11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

KJV

Here, the phrase "42 months" was only bold-faced; the phrase "1,260 days" was bold-faced and underlined; and the phrase "time, times, and half a time" was only underlined. The three were given in different ways of telling time because they are three different time periods! They are NOT the same!

A Jewish month always started with the sighting of the first sliver of a moon in its cycle, a "new moon." They would carefully watch for it because it was how they would judge when their holidays (holy days) would occur, and the lunar cycle is roughly 29.5 days. Sometimes, the sky would be overcast and the moon would not be visible on that day or even on the next. If that occurred, they would estimate when the new moon occurred by calculation, but they preferred actually being able to see the "new moon," and that day it was seen was itself a holy day, "ro'sh chodesh," the "holy head" of the month. Thus, 42 months = AT MOST 42 months x 29.5 days/month = 1,239 days, and because Jewish time-keeping allows for any portion of a time period as being counted as another of that time period, 42 months could also = AT LEAST 1 day + 40 months x 29.5 days/month + 1 day = 1,182 days! It would NEVER be a full 1,260 days!

Regarding the "time, times, and half a time" phrase, I would assume that Yochanan (or Yeshua` or a messenger) used this phrase to link with Dani'el 7:25:

Daniel 7:24-25

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

KJV

So, such a quotation would link the Greek word "kairos," translated "time" (NT:2540), to the Aramaic word "`iddan," also translated "time" (OT:5732), for Daniel 7 was written in Aramaic. The Aramaic of Dani'el 7:25 is...

Daniel 7:25

25 Uw-miliyn l-tsad `Ilaa'aah ymallil uwlqadiysheey `Elyowniyn yvalee' v-yicbar l-hashnaayaah zimniyn v-daat v-yityahavuwn biydeeh `ad `iddaan v-`iddaaniyn uw-flag `iddaan:

JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh

25 Uw-miliyn = 25 And-words

l-tsad = to/for-against

`Ilaa'aah = [the]-most-High

ymallil = he-shall-speak

uwlqadiysheey = and-to-holy-ones

`Elyowniyn = of-[the]-most-High

yvalee' = he-shall-afflict

v-yicbar = and--he-shall-hope

l-hashnaayaah = to-alter

zimniyn = appointed-occasions

v-daat = and-decrees/laws

v-yityahavuwn = and-they-shall-be-delivered

biydeeh = in-his-hand

`ad = until

`iddaan = a-time

v-`iddaaniyn = and-times (dual)

uw-flag = and-half

`iddaan: = a-time:

The interesting thing about this word "`iddaan" is that it can refer to any cycle! The Hebrew equivalent "`eed" is used for the "menstrual cycle!" However, if we assume that it is referring to the whole holiday cycle being a full year, then we are talking about the Jewish SOLAR year, because it is based on the SEASONS, not the lunar months! And, the solar year, like EVERYONE'S year, is 365.2422 days long on average! So, now we are talking about a time period of 3.5 years x 365.2422 days/year = approximately 1,278.3477 days!

So, we are talking about three different time periods such that...

"a time, times, and half a time" (1278.3477 days) > "1,260 days" > "42 months" ([1182,1239] days).

We can see that these time periods are close to each other, but they are not identical, and I believe that there's a reason why they were identified the way they were.

You guys really are making this far more complicated than it needs to be. The 1260 days corresponds to the First Jewish-Roman war. Believers were saved out of it, though not taken out of the world. The apostate Jews were disciplined through it and (if you will) in great thlipsis which is tribulation or distress.

There was another 1260 day just before the beginning of the First Jewish-Roman war, which was the Neronian persecution of the early church. This is the matter referred to in Daniel 7:25. Nero is the little horn who "wore out" the saints (Believers) for that time.

It was the Jewish rebellion in roughly August 66 AD (it started in Caesarea) which slowed the saints' persecution, because Rome had to divert attention to the problem there. Eventually, the Roman military was devoting all attention to the "Jewish problem" and they left the saints alone.

[Montana Marv]

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

Daniel 9:24 - Seventy - sevens are decreed. v.25 - Know and understand this; from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Annointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens (69 sevens) v. 27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for "one seven", In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him/it.

Convenient how you skip vs. 26. This is why it is dangerous to condense a text or summarize points. Have you considered why the 69 sevens are broken down into two segments of 7 sevens and 62 sevens? What happened at the 7 sevens point? I also reject your choice to use the NIV for these verses. It is just WRONG to say "on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation!" THOSE WORDS ARE NOT THERE IN HEBREW!!!

Go to Dan 12:11-13 - From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that cause desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days; Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. As for you (Daniel), go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of these days you will rise up to receive your alloted inheritance.

The 70 - sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens. 7 - sevens, 62 - sevens, and 1 - seven. Absolutley no mention of a seven being split and divided into two seperate parts. Scripture says in the middle of the seven (one seven). A one seven is 7 contineous years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes, the 70 sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens UNTIL the 70th seven! Then, just as you quoted, "In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." This DOES split and divide the last seven into two separate parts! It is also YESHUA`S DOING! There isn't a "gap" between the 69th and the 70th seven, as many want to believe; YESHUA` HIMSELF put the gap between the first 69.5 sevens and the last 0.5 seven when he left them DESOLATE!!! However, Yeshua` did not CAUSE the gap; the JEWS did when they rejected Him as God's Messiah, God's Anointed, to be King!

That first half of the 70th seven was the 3.5 years of Yeshua`s "earthly ministry," when He offered the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! If you want to keep the whole seven together as a unit, you would have to accept the Preterist point of view, but I won't. He won't try again until they welcome Him back as God's Anointed (Matthew 23:37-39; Psalm 118:22-26). During THOSE 3.5 years, Yeshua` will not only offer the Kingdom again to the Jews, but He will also fight for Isra'el as they are attacked by bullying, neighboring countries, most likely including Egypt and Iran.

Roy

It was convenient; for I was looking only at the verses which contained sevens (70 sevens are decreeded) or multiples of sevens. V. 26 was a confirmaion of v 25. All the verses are whole weeks. Therefore the ONE SEVEN in verse 27 is seven contineous years. No split, No seperation.

In Football (American), the 50 yard line is midway; it is halfway from the beginning and halfway from the end. It is the midpoint between two points. Split the turf along the 50 yard line and seperated the two, one no longer has a complete playing field. The same with the one seven, if split in two and seperated by time, it no longer becomes a full or complete One Seven. Then Daniels 70 - Sevens are no longer 70, but 69 sevens and two half sevens. Daniels's 70 - Sevens do not support what you trying to convence us of.

You have no proof that Jesus Christ's ministry lasted exactly 1,260 days or 3 and 1/2 years. No Biblical evidence to support your theory.

I would like to know what half your age is at any particular time in your life? And then was that time split and divided.

So either this last One Seven is past and fulfilled, Or this last One Seven is still in our future.

BTW, Dan 9:26 states that after the 62 Sevens the Anointed One will be cut off (or killed). It is a marker stating when the end of the 62 Sevens is. No mention is given when the onset of the final One Seven is. Only that it starts with the beginning of a seven year covenant, treaty with many. Christ made no such seven year covenant or treaty. If already complete, then Israel has been restored to glory and is living in total peace. (Which is not the Case).

In Christ

Montana Marv

[JPPT1974]

Jesus is coming! As we need to expect the unexpected. As we need to always know that He will come back. Like a thief in the night but not to steal, but to come and get us! We need to expect His coming at anyday at anytime!

[nChrist]

I think that the Rapture of the Church which is the Body of Christ will be soon. What a day of rejoicing that will be. I anxiously await His Glorious Appearance to catch us up to meet Him in the air. In the meantime, Christians have work to do - a race, fight, and course to finish. Our goal - the last person added to the Body of Christ. This means sharing the Gospel of the Grace of God and knowing that God's Word will never return void.

Isaiah 55:6-13 NASB Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts. 10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. 12 "For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. 13 "Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the LORD, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off."

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, nChrist.

I think that the Rapture of the Church which is the Body of Christ will be soon. What a day of rejoicing that will be. I anxiously await His Glorious Appearance to catch us up to meet Him in the air. In the meantime, Christians have work to do - a race, fight, and course to finish. Our goal - the last person added to the Body of Christ. This means sharing the Gospel of the Grace of God and knowing that God's Word will never return void.

Isaiah 55:6-13 NASB Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake his way And the unrighteous man his thoughts; And let him return to the LORD, And He will have compassion on him, And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon. 8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts. 10 "For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven, And do not return there without watering the earth And making it bear and sprout, And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater; 11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it. 12 "For you will go out with joy And be led forth with peace; The mountains and the hills will break forth into shouts of joy before you, And all the trees of the field will clap their hands. 13 "Instead of the thorn bush the cypress will come up, And instead of the nettle the myrtle will come up, And it will be a memorial to the LORD, For an everlasting sign which will not be cut off."

And, won't it be interesting when you're going up to suddenly go sideways and travel "THROUGH the heaven," that is, "THROUGH the sky," on your way to Isra'el? Oh, "you'll meet the Lord in the air," alright, but He'll be BACK and will have sent His messengers to gather His armies to rescue Isra'el from occupation and captivity! You WILL "ever be with the Lord," but He will be beginning His reign as haMelekh Yisra'el, the King of Isra'el! The "Rapture" is simply a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM!

Zech 12-14

12 The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel.

Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, 2 "Behold, I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that causes reeling to all the peoples around; and when the siege is against Jerusalem, it will also be against Judah. 3 "It will come about in that day that I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone for all the peoples; all who lift it will be severely injured. And all the nations of the earth will be gathered against it. 4 "In that day," declares the Lord, "I will strike every horse with bewilderment and his rider with madness. But I will watch over the house of Judah, while I strike every horse of the peoples with blindness. 5 "Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, 'A strong support for us are the inhabitants of Jerusalem through the Lord of hosts, their God.'

6 "In that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot among pieces of wood and a flaming torch among sheaves, so they will consume on the right hand and on the left all the surrounding peoples, while the inhabitants of Jerusalem again dwell on their own sites in Jerusalem. 7 "The Lord also will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem will not be magnified above Judah. 8 "In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the one who is feeble among them in that day will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 "And in that day I will set about to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn. 11 "In that day there will be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 "The land will mourn, every family by itself; the family of the house of David by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself and their wives by themselves; 13 the family of the house of Levi by itself and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself and their wives by themselves; 14 all the families that remain, every family by itself and their wives by themselves.

13:1 "In that day a fountain will be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for impurity.

2 "It will come about in that day," declares the Lord of hosts, "that I will cut off the names of the idols from the land, and they will no longer be remembered; and I will also remove the prophets and the unclean spirit from the land. 3 "And if anyone still prophesies, then his father and mother who gave birth to him will say to him, 'You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord'; and his father and mother who gave birth to him will pierce him through when he prophesies. 4 "Also it will come about in that day that the prophets will each be ashamed of his vision when he prophesies, and they will not put on a hairy robe in order to deceive; 5 but he will say, 'I am not a prophet; I am a tiller of the ground, for a man sold me as a slave in my youth.' 6 "And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will say, 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.'

7 "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,

And against the man, My Associate,"

Declares the Lord of hosts.

"Strike the Shepherd that the sheep may be scattered;

And I will turn My hand against the little ones.

8 "It will come about in all the land,"

Declares the Lord,

"That two parts in it will be cut off and perish;

But the third will be left in it.

9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire,

Refine them as silver is refined,

And test them as gold is tested.

They will call on My name,

And I will answer them;

I will say, 'They are My people,'

And they will say, 'The Lord is my God.'"

14:1 Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!

6 In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.

8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.

10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin's Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king's wine presses. 11 People will live in it, and there will no longer be a curse, for Jerusalem will dwell in security.

12 Now this will be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth. 13 It will come about in that day that a great panic from the Lord will fall on them; and they will seize one another's hand, and the hand of one will be lifted against the hand of another. 14 Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance. 15 So also like this plague will be the plague on the horse, the mule, the camel, the donkey and all the cattle that will be in those camps.

16 Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 17 And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 If the family of Egypt does not go up or enter, then no rain will fall on them; it will be the plague with which the Lord smites the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Booths.

20 In that day there will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, "HOLY TO THE LORD." And the cooking pots in the Lord's house will be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Every cooking pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the Lord of hosts; and all who sacrifice will come and take of them and boil in them. And there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts in that day.

NASU

The names listed in 12:12-14 above are also listed in Luke 3! To see this best, I will use those verses from the Complete Jewish Bible:

Zechariah 12:12-14

12 Then the land will mourn,

each family by itself —

the family of the house of David by itself,

and their wives by themselves;

the family of the house of Natan by itself,

and their wives by themselves;

13 the family of the house of Levi by itself,

and their wives by themselves;

the family of the Shim‘i by itself,

and their wives by themselves;

14 all the remaining families, each by itself,

and their wives by themselves.

CJB

Luke 3:23-38

23 Yeshua was about thirty years old when he began his public ministry. It was supposed that he was a son of Yosef who was of Eli, 24 of Mattat, of Levi, of Malki, of Yannai, of Yosef, 25 of Mattityahu, of Amotz, of Nachum, of Hesli, of Naggai, 26 of Machat, of Mattityahu, of Shim‘i, of Yosef, of Yodah, 27 of Yochanan, of Reisha, of Z’rubavel, of Sh’altiel, of Neri, 28 of Malki, of Addi, of Kosam, of Elmadan, of Er, 29 of Yeshua, of Eli‘ezer, of Yoram, of Mattat, of Levi, 30 of Shim‘on, of Y’hudah, of Yosef, of Yonam, of Elyakim, 31 of Mal’ah, of Manah, of Mattatah, of Natan, of David, 32 of Yishai, of ‘Oved, of Bo‘az, of Salmon, of Nachshon, 33 of Amminadav, of Admin, of Arni, of Hetzron, of Peretz, of Y’hudah, 34 of Ya‘akov, of Yitz’chak, of Avraham, of Terach, of Nachor, 35 of S’rug, of Re‘u, of Peleg, of ‘Ever, of Shelah, 36 of Keinan, of Arpakhshad, of Shem, of Noach, of Lemekh, 37 of Metushelach, of Hanokh, of Yered, of Mahalal’el, of Keinan, 38 of Enosh, of Shet, of Adam, of God.

CJB

They are not horizontally related; they are VERTICALLY related in the Messiah's family tree! Therefore, for this passage to be fulfilled, it must occur AFTER the resurrection, which is associated with the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17! Furthermore, it is an ERROR to say that this has to do with the "Church," as opposed to Isra'el! Unless one is prepared to say that the resurrection of the just (or rather, the justified) occurs twice, once at the Rapture at the beginning of the "seven years" and once at the end at the Second Coming, then these verses are about the SAME TIME PERIOD!

Just some things to think about.

[ShepherdSheep]

((((((Jesus Second Coming ))))))

Hello my brother's & sister's in Christ ....

It has been brought to my attention, that I am not to share parts of another writters information, so I have deleted this thread....

However, I shall pray & in Gods timing & create another thread to replace this one, this time with shared knowledge from other brother's & sisters here..... :-)

Thank you all for your time & your wonderful imput on this Amazing event that shall take place in "Gods Timing"....Amen

Hi Miss Agapelove

I'm new here and anything about Jesus interrests me allot. I really want to know what you have writen, coz to my understanding you had to delete it, can you please send it to me in some way?

[ShepherdSheep]

Amen! - Nice article - thanks for sharing. The Rapture will be a joyous event, but the Second Coming of Christ will be in great and Holy Wrath. It's also important to make a distinction that Jesus Christ does not come all the way down to the earth for the Rapture, rather the saints will be caught up to meet Him in the air. Jesus Christ comes all the way down to the earth at His Second Coming. Yes, they are two different events, and I firmly believe that Scripture supports the sequence of events mentioned in the article.

Hello Brother in Christ....

Have you seen the video I posted that I so wished to attatch with this thread (I was a little disapointed as it really does open ones mind). It is very beautiful and I think you will like it very much....Thank you for your reply....

God Bless you

Love & Blessings your sister in Christ Tina x

May I also please have the link to this video?

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Montana Marv, and shabbat shalom, as Friday sundown approaches.

Shalom, Montana Marv.

Roy

Daniel 9:24 - Seventy - sevens are decreed. v.25 - Know and understand this; from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Annointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens (69 sevens) v. 27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for "one seven", In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him/it.

Convenient how you skip vs. 26. This is why it is dangerous to condense a text or summarize points. Have you considered why the 69 sevens are broken down into two segments of 7 sevens and 62 sevens? What happened at the 7 sevens point? I also reject your choice to use the NIV for these verses. It is just WRONG to say "on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation!" THOSE WORDS ARE NOT THERE IN HEBREW!!!

Go to Dan 12:11-13 - From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that cause desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days; Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. As for you (Daniel), go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of these days you will rise up to receive your alloted inheritance.

The 70 - sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens. 7 - sevens, 62 - sevens, and 1 - seven. Absolutley no mention of a seven being split and divided into two seperate parts. Scripture says in the middle of the seven (one seven). A one seven is 7 contineous years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Yes, the 70 sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens UNTIL the 70th seven! Then, just as you quoted, "In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." This DOES split and divide the last seven into two separate parts! It is also YESHUA`S DOING! There isn't a "gap" between the 69th and the 70th seven, as many want to believe; YESHUA` HIMSELF put the gap between the first 69.5 sevens and the last 0.5 seven when he left them DESOLATE!!! However, Yeshua` did not CAUSE the gap; the JEWS did when they rejected Him as God's Messiah, God's Anointed, to be King!

That first half of the 70th seven was the 3.5 years of Yeshua`s "earthly ministry," when He offered the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! If you want to keep the whole seven together as a unit, you would have to accept the Preterist point of view, but I won't. He won't try again until they welcome Him back as God's Anointed (Matthew 23:37-39; Psalm 118:22-26). During THOSE 3.5 years, Yeshua` will not only offer the Kingdom again to the Jews, but He will also fight for Isra'el as they are attacked by bullying, neighboring countries, most likely including Egypt and Iran.

Roy

It was convenient; for I was looking only at the verses which contained sevens (70 sevens are decreeded) or multiples of sevens. V. 26 was a confirmaion of v 25. All the verses are whole weeks. Therefore the ONE SEVEN in verse 27 is seven contineous years. No split, No seperation.

In Football (American), the 50 yard line is midway; it is halfway from the beginning and halfway from the end. It is the midpoint between two points. Split the turf along the 50 yard line and seperated the two, one no longer has a complete playing field. The same with the one seven, if split in two and seperated by time, it no longer becomes a full or complete One Seven. Then Daniels 70 - Sevens are no longer 70, but 69 sevens and two half sevens. Daniels's 70 - Sevens do not support what you trying to convence us of.

You have no proof that Jesus Christ's ministry lasted exactly 1,260 days or 3 and 1/2 years. No Biblical evidence to support your theory.

I would like to know what half your age is at any particular time in your life? And then was that time split and divided.

So either this last One Seven is past and fulfilled, Or this last One Seven is still in our future.

BTW, Dan 9:26 states that after the 62 Sevens the Anointed One will be cut off (or killed). It is a marker stating when the end of the 62 Sevens is. No mention is given when the onset of the final One Seven is. Only that it starts with the beginning of a seven year covenant, treaty with many. Christ made no such seven year covenant or treaty. If already complete, then Israel has been restored to glory and is living in total peace. (Which is not the Case).

In Christ

Montana Marv

Actually, there IS biblical evidence in what I believe. First, Yeshua`s earthly "ministry" (His offer of the Kingdom) lasted for four Pesach seasons, four Passovers, when everyone was to go to Jerusalem in the Spring, the last one - of course - being the time of his death. He began His offer of the Kingdom around His birthday, which is around the time of Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles or Booths. This is always in the autumn, not on December 25th. This, too, is biblical because one can calculate six months from the birth of Yochanan the Immerser, who was conceived six months earlier than Yeshua` was, shortly after Z'kharyahu (Zechariah or Zacharias) was in the Temple for his turn at the priestly office. He was of the Division of Aviyahu (Abijah or Abia), the 8th division, which would have served in the temple in the first week of the month Sivan. He would also have had to be there in the second week of Sivan for Shavu'ot or Pentecost. Thus, Yochanan would have been conceived in the third week of Sivan. Elisheva (Elizabeth) hid herself for five months and then Miryam (Mary) was approached by Gavri'el (Gabriel) in her sixth month and was impregnated by the Ruach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) at that time because when she arrives to visit with Elisheva, Yochanan kicked in her uterus and Elisheva prophesied! (1 Chronicles 24:7-18; Luke 1:5-45)

1 Chronicles 24:1-19

1 The divisions of the descendants of Aharon were as follows:

The sons of Aharon: Nadav, Avihu, El‘azar and Itamar. 2 But Nadav and Avihu died before their father and had no children; therefore El‘azar and Itamar functioned as the cohanim. 3 David, together with Tzadok from the descendants of El‘azar, and Achimelekh from the descendants of Itamar, arranged them in divisions for service. 4 There were more men who were chiefs found among the descendants of El‘azar than among the descendants of Itamar; therefore there were sixteen divisions of the descendants of El‘azar, headed by clan leaders, and eight divisions of the descendants of Itamar, according to their clans. 5 They were assigned [periods of service] by lot, the one group equally with the other, since both the descendants of El‘azar and the descendants of Itamar had officers of the sanctuary and officers of God. 6 Sh’ma‘yah the son of N’tan’el the secretary, one of the L’vi’im, recorded them in the presence of the king, the officers, Tzadok the cohen, Achimelekh the son of Evyatar, and the clan leaders of the cohanim and of the L’vi’im — with two clan divisions taken from El‘azar for each one from Itamar.

7 The first lot drawn was for Y’hoyariv,

the second for Y’da‘yah,

8 the third for Harim,

the fourth for S‘orim,

9 the fifth for Malkiyah,

the sixth for Miyamin,

10 the seventh for Hakotz,

the eighth for Aviyah,

11 the ninth for Yeshua,

the tenth for Sh’khanyahu,

12 the eleventh for Elyashiv,

the twelfth for Yakim,

13 the thirteenth for Hupah,

the fourteenth for Yeshev’av,

14 the fifteenth for Bilgah,

the sixteenth for Immer,

15 the seventeenth for Hezir,

the eighteenth for HaPitzetz,

16 the nineteenth for P’tachyah,

the twentieth for Yechezk’el,

17 the twenty-first for Yakhin,

the twenty-second for Gamul,

18 the twenty-third for D’layahu, and

the twenty-fourth for Ma‘azyahu.

19 These are the divisions and the sequence in which they served in the house of Adonai, in accordance with the rule they were given through Aharon their ancestor, as Adonai the God of Isra’el had ordered him.

CJB

Luke 1:5-45

5 In the days of Herod, King of Y’hudah, there was a cohen named Z’kharyah who belonged to the Aviyah division. His wife was a descendant of Aharon, and her name was Elisheva. 6 Both of them were righteous before God, observing all the mitzvot and ordinances of Adonai blamelessly. 7 But they had no children, because Elisheva was barren; and they were both well along in years.

8 One time, when Z’kharyah was fulfilling his duties as cohen during his division’s period of service before God, 9 he was chosen by lot (according to the custom among the cohanim) to enter the Temple and burn incense. 10 All the people were outside, praying, at the time of the incense burning, 11 when there appeared to him an angel of Adonai standing to the right of the incense altar. 12 Z’kharyah was startled and terrified at the sight. 13 But the angel said to him, “Don’t be afraid, Z’kharyah; because your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elisheva will bear you a son, and you are to name him Yochanan. 14 He will be a joy and a delight to you, and many people will rejoice when he is born, 15 for he will be great in the sight of Adonai. He is never to drink wine or other liquor, and he will be filled with the Ruach HaKodesh even from his mother’s womb. 16 He will turn many of the people of Isra’el to Adonai their God. 17 He will go out ahead of Adonai in the spirit and power of Eliyahu to turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready for Adonai a people prepared.”

18 Z’kharyah said to the angel, “How can I be sure of this? For I am an old man; my wife too is well on in years.” 19 “I am Gavri’el,” the angel answered him, “and I stand in the presence of God. I was sent to speak to you, to give you this good news. 20 Now, because you didn’t believe what I said, which will be fulfilled when the time comes, you will be silent, unable to speak until the day these things take place.”

21 Meanwhile, the people were waiting for Z’kharyah; they were surprised at his taking so long in the Temple. 22 But when he came out unable to talk to them, they realized that he had seen a vision in the Temple; speechless, he communicated to them with signs.

23 When the period of his Temple service was over, he returned home. 24 Following this, Elisheva his wife conceived, and she remained five months in seclusion, saying, 25 “Adonai has done this for me; he has shown me favor at this time, so as to remove my public disgrace.”

26 In the sixth month, the angel Gavri’el was sent by God to a city in the Galil called Natzeret, 27 to a virgin engaged to a man named Yosef, of the house of David; the virgin’s name was Miryam. 28 Approaching her, the angel said, “Shalom, favored lady! Adonai is with you!” 29 She was deeply troubled by his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 The angel said to her, “Don’t be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favor with God. 31 Look! You will become pregnant, you will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua. 32 He will be great, he will be called Son of Ha‘Elyon. Adonai, God, will give him the throne of his forefather David; 33 and he will rule the House of Ya‘akov forever — there will be no end to his Kingdom.” 34 “How can this be,” asked Miryam of the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered her,

“The Ruach HaKodesh will come over you,

the power of Ha‘Elyon will cover you.

Therefore the holy child born to you

will be called the Son of God.

36 “You have a relative, Elisheva, who is an old woman; and everyone says she is barren. But she has conceived a son and is six months pregnant! 37 For with God, nothing is impossible.” 38 Miryam said, “I am the servant of Adonai; may it happen to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.

39 Without delay, Miryam set out and hurried to the town in the hill country of Y’hudah 40 where Z’kharyah lived, entered his house and greeted Elisheva. 41 When Elisheva heard Miryam’s greeting, the baby in her womb stirred. Elisheva was filled with the Ruach HaKodesh 42 and spoke up in a loud voice,

“How blessed are you among women!

And how blessed is the child in your womb!

43 “But who am I, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For as soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy! 45 Indeed you are blessed, because you have trusted that the promise Adonai has made to you will be fulfilled.”

CJB

(One can find this viewpoint at http://www.luziusschneider.com/Papers/JesusDateOfBirth.htm.)

This person believes that Yeshua` was born on or near 7 Tishri, which would have been on or around September 29, durring Sukkot! Also, I find it telling that everyone of the surrounding nations during the Millennium will be required to come to Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles:

Zechariah 14:16-21

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

KJV

(If one is worried about Christmas, don't be. If one will count backward 280 days, the normal gestation period of a human being, one will find that Yeshua` was most likely CONCEIVED on Christmas!)

So, the half year came first in Yeshua`s ministry, from His birthday to the first Pesach. Then, there were three more Pesach seasons, and He was killed as haKeves Pesach, the Paschal Lamb, the Lamb for the Passover Seder meal.

Now, you said,...

BTW, Dan 9:26 states that after the 62 Sevens the Anointed One will be cut off (or killed). It is a marker stating when the end of the 62 Sevens is.

Sorry, but that is an assumption on your part. It doesn't say that the cutting off of the Messiah "marks the end of the 62 Sevens"; it says that the Messiah is cut off AFTER the 62 Sevens! Three and a half years later is still "AFTER the 62 Sevens!" You've gotta get picky about this, particularly in the Hebrew of the verses if you're going to understand these verses.

Then, you said,...

No mention is given when the onset of the final One Seven is. Only that it starts with the beginning of a seven year covenant, treaty with many. Christ made no such seven year covenant or treaty.

Actually, the confirmation of the Davidic Covenant by ADONAI, the LORD God Himself, Yeshua`s Father is what started the beginning of the "seven-year Covenant" when the Father said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased," at His baptism, although it was truly intended to be an ETERNAL, EVERLASTING Covenant! It is only in THIS prophecy that we learn it would actually be limited to seven years. HOWEVER, it was YESHUA` HIMSELF who split the Seven in two! He left them DESOLATE in Matthew 23:38, just as predicted in Dani'el 9:27! This split the Seven, and there is absolutely NO evidence anywhere else in Scripture to put a gap between the 69th Seven and the 70th Seven! ONLY here, when Yeshua` pronounces their household "DESOLATE," do we have the makings of a legitimate gap! HE split the Seven!

Think of it as the lives of Moshe (Moses) and Eliyahu (Elijah) or perhaps Chanokh (Enoch), whoever are the two witnesses of Revelation 11:3; their lives were split in the same way! They lived most of their time and then DISAPPEARED only to show up again in the future to finish their lives with 42 more months, because "...it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

If already complete, then Israel has been restored to glory and is living in total peace. (Which is not the Case).

I agree with you that the final Seven is not already complete. However, I believe that there is ample support for the belief that the Seven was split in two, by the fact that Yeshua` comes TWICE. He came the first time as the Lamb that was Slain; He will come the second time as the Lion of the Tribe of Y'hudah! The 70th Seven must fulfill the rest of the purposes for the 70 Sevens, but part of those purposes had to be fulfilled by the Messiah during His first coming as the Sacrifice for His people. But, the goal of the 70 Sevens is to make the Messiah the KING! His first 3.5 years fulfilled the first half of the Seven, and when He comes, the next 3.5 years of His ministry will complete the Seven as His role of King of the Jews and prepare a people for His Kingdom over Isra'el which begins in the Millennium!