Evaluation of the Doctrine of Unconditional Eternal Security or OSAS

[OneLight]

I'm sorry ... your question makes no sense to me.  Can you reword your question? I don't know what you mean when you ask "If I may ask you, when did God give you the answer to what you are saying, what is that "what?""

 

If you mean the words that are underline above, they are found in scripture, Revelation 21:6-8.  I copied and pasted the verses.

 

So, Revelation 21:6-8 are verses found in the book of the bible and God did not give it to you/us personally as an answer, do you/we now agree? About playing to be God, I do hope it is now clear to you that it plainly refers to whatever answer that anyone will dare respond to the question previously posted.

I will not agree that we cannot use scripture as the truth. If you want to ignore His words or are to afraid to stand firm on them, that is you choice. When scripture tells us the sexually immoral people will be cast in to the lake of fire I will echo that message. God gives warnings to us all through His words. IF you choose not to pass on these warnings to those who are in sin, where is your love for your neighbor?

When you witness to people, what truth do you stand on if you refuse to stand on scripture?

[OneLight]

Here is the passage you refer to:

 

Revelation 21:6-8

 

⁶ And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

⁷ He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

⁸ But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

Notice in verse 8 it mentions "unbelieving." That is because this does not refer to anyone that has believed the gospel of the Lord jesus Christ and trusted in His blood payment for their sins. 

 

The saved have their sins paid for and forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ.

When studying the above scripture the unbelieving is just one factor of many, separated by a comma and the words "and the". The list is as follows:

• fearful
• unbelieving
• abominable
• murders
• sexually immoral
• sorcerers
• idolaters
• all liars

One does not have to more than one of these to be cast into the lake of fire. The unbelieving is just one in the list.

What do you say this verse is telling us?

Matthew 7:14

Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

[MarkNigro]

Jesus said:

 

Matthew 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

Notice the way is narrow, no room for works. Jesus is the way, not the way shower. It ends with find it, not persevere on a path.

[OneLight]

Jesus said:

 

Matthew 7:14

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

Notice the way is narrow, no room for works. Jesus is the way, not the way shower. It ends with find it, not persevere on a path.

You add "no room for works" because that is what you believe. Scripture never said that. In fact, those who do not do the will of the Father nor follow what Christ commanded are those who take the wide path, as many do. BE careful, my friend. Don't be trapped into thinking that what you do or do not do does not matter.

[Sanh]

When you witness to people, what truth do you stand on if you refuse to stand on scripture?

 

 

The truth that I stand on in witnessing to people is the truth that I learned and received from the Lord Jesus Christ in His own way of existence and living. The Lord commanded me to tell the people to come to and call on in Him (God) in order that the people may learn and hear from God himself and know God through Himself being the Lord God of all ages and in that respect, people may not be led astray of the way leading to the kingdom of God and their own salvation.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Sanh

[MarkNigro]

 

When you witness to people, what truth do you stand on if you refuse to stand on scripture?

 

 

The truth that I stand on in witnessing to people is the truth that I learned and received from the Lord Jesus Christ in His own way of existence and living. The Lord commanded me to tell the people to come to and call on in Him (God) in order that the people may learn and hear from God himself and know God through Himself being the Lord God of all ages and in that respect, people may not be led astray of the way leading to the kingdom of God and their own salvation.

 

How did the Lord command you to tell people?

[Sanh]

 

How did the Lord command you to tell people?

 

 

I have told you already the means that the Lord used in talking to us, just go back to those posts.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Sanh

[MarkNigro]

 

 

How did the Lord command you to tell people?

 

 

I have told you already the means that the Lord used in talking to us, just go back to those posts.

 

Well I am sure someone else will have a different story to tell from their encounter with Jesus Christ. Does not work though.

Use the proven word of God.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

Mark,

I notice that you are refusing to discuss what you disagree with. You claim Matthew 7:21 is often misunderstood and that it does refute salvation by merit or works. Let's look at the whole passage you provided so we are not taking anything our of context.

Matthew 7:21-23

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’"

Let go with your premise, that all one need to do is believe in Christ to be saved forever. Those who do the above in His name have to believe in Him in order to do these things: prophesied in His name, cast out demons in His name, done many wonders in His name. Yet, Jesus claims He never knew them. Jesus then continues to explain what he means in the follow verses.

 

 

The fact that they are appealing to their works and not to the grace of God, shows that they were not believers at all, coupled with the fact that Jesus said that He never (at any time) knew them.   So these were not people who were doing anything in Jesus' Name, despite their claim.  

 

 

That does not negate the fact that they believed that they were following the Lord or believed in the Lord.  They just refused to follow the Lord as the Lord set forth by following the commandments of the Lord.  They probably believed that were all set because they could use His name to cast out demons and prophesy.  Continue in Matthew 7, verses 24-27, and see how Christ explains the difference of hearing and obeying and hearing and not obeying.

 

Salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, but that is not the end all of our walk in Christ, but only the beginning.  We have a partnership with God in allowing Him to change us to be like Christ, or not and remain in the flesh.  That is our choice and if we choose to remain in the flesh, it is like the seed that fell on the wayside or among the thorns.  Neither bear fruit and a tree that does not bear fruit gets cut down and burned.

 

You are reading way more into that than is warranted.  Jesus calls them false prophets.  They were not believers regardless of what they thought they were.  There are many religionists who think that they are believers because they got to church or because they were baptized as a child.

 

The difference between the man who built his house on the rock and the man who built his house on the sand was faith.  The wise man heard and obeyed the Lord.  He was not saved because he obeyed.  He was already saved and his faith produced corresponding action.  

 

Salvation is not a partnership with God.  We are not his partners. He is the one who does the changing.  It is His work from start to finish.  If salvation depends on us at all, we are doomed.   The New Covenant isn't between God and man.  It is between the Father and Jesus.  They are the guarantors of the covenant and you can't break their covenant.  Salvation is God holding on to us, not us holding on to Him.

 

Oh and BTW, the Bible uses the anceint blood covenant as the model for understanding how the New Covenant works.  If a person EVER loses their salvation, because this is a blood covenant, they wouldn't get it back.  If the covenant is broken, it is broken permanently, requiring yet another covenant to be cut in order for salvation to made available again and Jesus isn't coming back to die for us again.

 

The whole dog and pony show of getting saved, getting lost and getting saved again is not biblical and has no support anywhere from Scripture.

[Guest]

Oh and BTW, the Bible uses the ancient blood covenant as the model for understanding how the New Covenant works.  If a person EVER loses their salvation, because this is a blood covenant, they wouldn't get it back.  If the covenant is broken, it is broken permanently, requiring yet another covenant to be cut in order for salvation to made available again and Jesus isn't coming back to die for us again.

 

The whole dog and pony show of getting saved, getting lost and getting saved again is not biblical and has no support anywhere from Scripture.

 

 

~

 

It Scares My Silly

 

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

 

To Think Someone Would Dance Into

 

And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:17-19

 

And Out Of The Precious Blood Of The Lamb Of God

 

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

 

For They Could Bring Down An Eternal Curse

 

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:5

 

And Leave Jesus

 

Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. Jeremiah 17:7

 

Forever

 

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. Hebrews 3:12

 

And If You Think You've Done So

 

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Acts 2:21

 

Cry Out

 

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

 

And Be Blessed Beloved

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Joe